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Because of the bottlenecks and all of the other things that Tyson contols that you mentioned (including real decisions on regulatory action at GIPSA), poultry farmers are cheated out of the value of their assets and left with what amounts to the pay of their average variable costs. This cheats them out of profits on their investments.

This is the supply side of marginal cost control perfected. I think even Dr. Taylor wrote something on this issue.
 
Elementary Economics: "Because of the bottlenecks and all of the other things that Tyson contols that you mentioned (including real decisions on regulatory action at GIPSA), poultry farmers are cheated out of the value of their assets and left with what amounts to the pay of their average variable costs. This cheats them out of profits on their investments."
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AND THEY NEED YOU TO SAVE THEM FROM THEIR OWN DECISIONS??????

You are a liberal through and through. I have never seen anyone so damn arrogant when you couldn't be more without.


~SH~
 
Come on SH, tell us how the chicken industry is the ultimate capitalist example.

Open your eyes boy. The end is not coming, but where is this trend that you ultimately defend supposed to lead us all?
 
SH wrote:
The money is tied up in Land,
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The point is...................... if you look at the bigger picture. I can see the possibility of many acres of foreclosures and forced sellouts of land with chicken houses on them. There could be an opportunity for the chicken packers with the resources to buy this land cheap and grow their OWN birds. Leaving out the independent grower altogether.

Far fetched? Not at all, they've already bought a few large tracts with houses, brought in Mexican labor, and are competing with their own independent growers.

Since it takes several acres for collateral to build these houses, I could see one company in particular (one that processes chicken AND beef) that could benefit two ways.
 
RK: "Come on SH, tell us how the chicken industry is the ultimate capitalist example."
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Were those chicken farmers forced to raise chickens for Tyson?

Amazing, my wife buys chickens from the Hutterite colonies here in SD. I guess they didn't know that they were supposed to be raising them for Tyson.


RK: "....where is this trend that you ultimately defend supposed to lead us all?"
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I defend the truth. I defend against baseless conspiracy theories and outright lies that serve nobody. I defend producers having the right to make their own decisions not having those decisions forced upon them by the liberal government mandate lovers.

Look no further than USPB if you want to see a blueprint for producer success.


Nobody has a gun to anyone's head. You can raise your own cattle, feed your own cattle, slaughter your own cattle, and market your own beef and you don't even have to hear the word Tyson.

You're such a whiny defeatist.

"It can't be done, there's no hope, Tyson pulls the strings, the end is near, we are all doomed, poor me........yada yada yada".

You defeatists literally make me sick!



~SH~
 
SH -
"It can't be done, there's no hope, Tyson pulls the strings, the end is near, we are all doomed, poor me........yada yada yada".
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You know darn well that neither myself, nor any of the others that challenge your views beleive this SH. It is simply another way for you to try to prove your BS.

Most of all of these arguements are over big getting bigger, and not only the lack of control to stop it, but more legislation every day to let it go on.

You can argue truth and show proof until you are red in the face (again), but until you open your eyes to what is going on around your gopher trapping world, you will never be anything but a Tyson/Cargill puppet.
 
You see why I need to change your stage name to Gopher Trapper SH? Every time I use SH in a sentence that includes "it" it seems that Macon thinks I am swearing.
 
Concentration is not unique to the packing industry. THAT IS A FACT!

Someone always comes along to do it better. THAT IS A FACT!

Worrying about concentration in this industry is a huge waste of time because the equity that is needed to control this industry is tied up in land, livestock and machinery, NOT IN PACKING HOUSES.

That is why you see efforts like USPB being successful.

You are so brainwashed with your thumbsucking packer blame that you cannot see the most obvious things right in front of your face.


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
Concentration is not unique to the packing industry. THAT IS A FACT!

Someone always comes along to do it better. THAT IS A FACT!

Worrying about concentration in this industry is a huge waste of time because the equity that is needed to control this industry is tied up in land, livestock and machinery, NOT IN PACKING HOUSES.

That is why you see efforts like USPB being successful.

You are so brainwashed with your thumbsucking packer blame that you cannot see the most obvious things right in front of your face.


~SH~
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SH, You are wrong, history has proved it (did you stay in school long enough to get through history?) and it is happening again.

It is time to let out the lions. The foxes have messed up the henhouse too much.
 
Obvious SH?

The obvious is in your words.
SH
Concentration is not unique to the packing industry. THAT IS A FACT
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!
True
Someone always comes along to do it better. THAT IS A FACT!
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Questionable.

How many huge mutinational do you know that have been bought out by some small company, or group of them.

America and blind following Canada have been on a trend for decades. Has it been good for small business SH?

Law keep passing to keep proof defenders like yourself and the trend rolling along. Tell me how USBP plans t buy out Tyson foods SH? It must be on their list if they are the ultimate capitalists. Or are they waiting for the right offer from Cargill?

What does IBP stand for buddy?
 
Elementary: "SH, You are wrong, history has proved it (did you stay in school long enough to get through history?) and it is happening again."
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More cheap talk!

I am right and history has proven it. Cudahey, Wilson, Swift, Armour, and Morris became Excel, ibp, Monfort, National Beef, and Beef America which became Tyson, Excel, USPB, Swift & Co., and Smithfield.

You don't have a clue and you proved it again.


Randy Kaiser: "Tell me how USBP plans t buy out Tyson foods s*** must be on their list if they are the ultimate capitalists. Or are they waiting for the right offer from Cargill?"
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That's not the question, the question is, how does USPB compete with Tyson when guys like you are telling everyone that it can't be done?


Randy, answer this question honestly without running off on another of your thumbsucking packer blaming tangents. I'm not taking a position on whether it's good or bad. I'm simply asking your opinion. What is wrong with Tyson and Cargill owning 85% of the packing industry in Canada if they are in competition with eachother?

Now don't read more into that question and suggest that I said it was just fine. I'm simply asking what YOU BELIEVE the problem is with Tyson and Cargill owning 85% of the slaughter capacity in Canada if they are competing with eachother for the same cattle.

What is your point? Do you believe they not competitive with eachother? Are they making huge profits at your expense? Can you prove either? Do you believe more packers means more money for producers?

JUST EXACTLY WHAT IS YOUR POINT?????


I'm convinced you don't have a point but just want to bitch and suck youir thumb. Prove me wrong! Make a point!

Should we lobby to break Coke and Pepsi up since they dominate their industry?


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
Elementary: "SH, You are wrong, history has proved it (did you stay in school long enough to get through history?) and it is happening again."
Click to expand...

More cheap talk!

I am right and history has proven it. Cudahey, Wilson, Swift, Armour, and Morris became Excel, ibp, Monfort, National Beef, and Beef America which became Tyson, Excel, USPB, Swift & Co., and Smithfield.

You don't have a clue and you proved it again.


Randy Kaiser: "Tell me how USBP plans t buy out Tyson foods s*** must be on their list if they are the ultimate capitalists. Or are they waiting for the right offer from Cargill?"
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That's not the question, the question is, how does USPB compete with Tyson when guys like you are telling everyone that it can't be done?


Randy, answer this question honestly without running off on another of your thumbsucking packer blaming tangents. I'm not taking a position on whether it's good or bad. I'm simply asking your opinion. What is wrong with Tyson and Cargill owning 85% of the packing industry in Canada if they are in competition with eachother?

Now don't read more into that question and suggest that I said it was just fine. I'm simply asking what YOU BELIEVE the problem is with Tyson and Cargill owning 85% of the slaughter capacity in Canada if they are competing with eachother for the same cattle.

What is your point? Do you believe they not competitive with eachother? Are they making huge profits at your expense? Can you prove either? Do you believe more packers means more money for producers?

JUST EXACTLY WHAT IS YOUR POINT?????


I'm convinced you don't have a point but just want to bitch and suck youir thumb. Prove me wrong! Make a point!

Should we lobby to break Coke and Pepsi up since they dominate their industry?


~SH~
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SH, coke and pepsi don't have the same choke hold on their producers, do they? In almost all of my arguments, I am arguing that it is the producer surplus (ranchers) that are being harmed. If you don't have the ability to make good comparisons, don't make them. It is just more diverticuli and it shows your inability to grasp the concepts being discussed.

Sometimes it is worth the teacher's time to send a student like you out of the classroom so everyone else doesn't have to be brought to the lowest common denominator. I know you want attention, but could you get it from a girl? Comments and ruminations about Jason's a..... will not get you there.
 
gtSH said:
What is wrong with Tyson and Cargill owning 85% of the packing industry in Canada if they are in competition with eachother?
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That's easy...Tyson and Cargill did nothing to develop markets for Canadian beef other than opening the border wide enough to get their boxed beef through and then process as many devalued Canadian cattle as they could and sell the boxed beef into the high USA market place. A Canadian processor worth its salt would have implemented a protocol to sell beef to the Asian markets and others.

I understand why you won't answer my question...it would blow your R-CALF biased statements to pieces! :lol: :lol: :lol:

One other thing...all dollars in the industry come from the consumers, the bottle neck is between the producers and the consumers...AND THAT IS ALL THEY NEED TO CONTROL THE INDUSTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
SH, "What is wrong with Tyson and Cargill owning 85% of the packing industry in Canada if they are in competition with eachother?"

So when you decide to sell your gopher traps and move to town, are you going to tell just two of your neighbors about your sale?
 
RobertMac said:
That's easy...Tyson and Cargill did nothing to develop markets for Canadian beef other than opening the border wide enough to get their boxed beef through and then process as many devalued Canadian cattle as they could and sell the boxed beef into the high USA market place. A Canadian processor worth its salt would have implemented a protocol to sell beef to the Asian markets and others.

One other thing...all dollars in the industry come from the consumers, the bottle neck is between the producers and the consumers...AND THAT IS ALL THEY NEED TO CONTROL THE INDUSTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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So somehow Tyson Lakeside and Cargill were alone responsible for opening the US border to Canadian beef? The CFIA and USDA had no control over it? Why did R-calf sue the USDA then to keep it closed? All their production went to the US too?

If they had that power then why wouldn't they open the Asian markets too? You can't have it both ways. If they opened the US border then there must be no profit in the Asian markets for them or they would open them too.

If they can't open the Asian borders how did they open the US border?
Your sand in the hourglass and the bottleneck theory sounds good but what happens if producers were to with-hold the sand? I would say the cattle owners control the industry. Sell the cattle pass control on to the new owner.

I have an idea, no one with cattle sell any for a whole year. Lets see if those damn packers will survive then. :roll:
 
Jason, "If they had that power then why wouldn't they open the Asian markets too?"

I'm not so sure they haven't. Who is behind the Aussie beef?
 
Sandhusker said:
Jason, "If they had that power then why wouldn't they open the Asian markets too?"

I'm not so sure they haven't. Who is behind the Aussie beef?
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Have you explored how much market share they lost in Canada and the US to get the asian markets?

Besides Tyson has no interests in Australia as far as we have been told.

So now Cargill is the lone power? Yet they got less in subsidies that Tyson in Canada. Sheesh conspiracies are hard to continue aren't they?
 
Jason said:
Sandhusker said:
Jason, "If they had that power then why wouldn't they open the Asian markets too?"

I'm not so sure they haven't. Who is behind the Aussie beef?
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Have you explored how much market share they lost in Canada and the US to get the asian markets?

Besides Tyson has no interests in Australia as far as we have been told.

So now Cargill is the lone power? Yet they got less in subsidies that Tyson in Canada. Sheesh conspiracies are hard to continue aren't they?
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Jason, I don't believe there is a conspiracy, just business and a lot of the favors "donations" get you.

How much market share have they lost between the two of us? I don't understand your question. None?

I don't think you can say "If they got the Canadian order open, why not Asia"? The Japanese don't owe them any favors. You're talking about two totally different outfits.

I may be wrong, but I think Cargill is deeper in Australia than Tyson. For them it may not be a big deal as their Aussie office handles the Japanese account instead of the US office. I'm sure Tyson is losing money not shipping to Japan. However, when negotiatons began nearly 2 years ago, I'll bet they didn't forsee it taking this long to get back in. I think they simply made a bad bet - they found out they don't get their way quite so easy outside of North America.
 
For Australia to ship beef to Japan and korea they have to stop shipping it somewhere else. Prices fell in Canada in 2003 so it wasn't an attractive market. The US price didn't fall the same way because of the size of the population.

However, the US was only buying it for trim, Japan needed a replacement for staple dishes (ie beef and rice bowls). The Japanese market is worth more so Australia (packer interests) would logically switch to sell for the higher dollar.

You claim they did this on purpose. At least thats what your statements indicate. I think anyone can see the lower quality (not grain fed) Australian beef wouldn't command the same dollar (yen) as American grain fed beef. It is a stretch they would take the risks of playing BSE games to make some extra money from Australia while losing money from the US and Canada. Even for a conspiracy hound as yourself that has got to look far fetched.
 

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