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MRJ- Whats a Philosophical Difference?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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mrj said:
Your pet peeve there is clouding your mind, Sandhusker.

It is your OPINION that the particular NCBA policy harms the industry. NCBA did NOT cause BSE, nor the Asian reaction to it.

IF the policy was wrong, it hurt NCBA members who made the policy more than your members, since there are many more members of NCBA.

I don't agree that it was wrong, but no group is infallible either. I choose an organization where thousands of members set the policy, as there is surely less chance of failure than in organizations where a little group of directors runs everything.

mrj

You remind me of a air-headed tour guide that can only repeat the tour schpeel over and over; "NCBA has done so many great and wonderful things...." Someome in the tour points out a assinine and disasterous thing that was done and you just blink twice, maintain the same expression and answer, "NCBA has done so many great and wonderful things.."

It's my opinion? NCBA's own economist (Doud) says losing those markets cost $140/head for everybody. Now do you believe it?

No, NCBA didn't cause BSE - nobody ever said they did. However, we had a way to re-open those markets, one where the customer even came up with the idea so they could buy our product - and NCBA followed their packer leaders and said "NO, you'll buy our product the way we want you to buy it".

That policy has cost us billions, and the meter is still running, and you say "If it was wrong"? Tell me, MRJ, how was it right?

You also chose an organization where leadership can completely reverse membership's decrees. We saw it happen and you even defended it. That means it is member-driven only to the extent that leadership allows it to be.

So here we are again with NCBA backing a policy that even their own economist can put a number on, we lost markets that we may never get back, the "membership-driven" organization allowing the members to get trumped at the whim of "leadership" and when that gets pointed out to you, your reply is, "NCBA has done so many great and wonderful things.."
 
OT, there is "no inside scoop". Everything about that situation is public. Click onto the www.810KBHB.com website. Maybe the interview done last Saturday is there for you to hear for yourself. That is where I got my information.

Sandhusker, PLEASE take your head out of the sand! Clean your eyes! You continue your stupid mantra that NCBA policy caused BSE market closures. News Flash! Are you certain it was not a USDA rule against giving individuals or businesses control over tests for which USDA is responsible, maybe even liable?

How many times have I stated that I believe (and this has nothing to do with NCBA) that USDA did the right thing in not allowing a private company to test for BSE.

MY reason is that at the time, and maybe even today, there is too little that is known with certainty about BSE tests. How many tests for BSE that were accepted by the world scientific community for use by individuals and businesses were available AT THAT TIME????

Further, my personal belief is that, given what is known about BSE, I believe procedures, including SRM removal and keeping non-ambulatory and suspicious appearing cattle out of the food and mamalian feed supply is regarded in the world science community as adequate protection from BSE.

Re. NCBA policy suporting USDA refusal to allow private businesses to test for BSE.....what do you fail to understand about using science here?
That is the stand of NCBA.........do what the recognized science community supports.

You are totally incorrect saying NCBA "leadership can completely reverse membership decrees". That decision was made after seeking the approval of state affiliate directors. NCBA members are not afraid to make unpopular decisions. We understand that science will prove out ultimately. YOu have NO WAY of knowing things would have been any better had BSE testing been allowed by individuals. There could have been a mistake made that would have been far more costly, but you will never admit that possibility, will you? Membership is growing, with the 29,000+ figure nearly a year old now, I'll post current number later.

You are being assinine to claim that NCBA or packers, for that matter, say any such thing as: "No, you'll buy our product the way we want you to buy it". That is absolutely ridiculous OF YOU!!!! Why do you think packers have made any changes in beef cuts, or anything else, if not to satisfy customer demand?

MOST OBVIOUSLY, and let me say that I'm very sorry for you that your mind is unable to comprehend this fact: NCBA does NOT "figure losing business and markets benefits producers", in any way, shape, or form! NO ONE has disputed that losing export markets lost money for US cattle producers! What have you and R-CALF done to regain those markets? With help of NCBA, CBB, and others, we HAVE regained more than half of that lost. Pretty phenomenal, I'd say, considering all the consumer fearmongering some people have done!!!!

Do you really froth at the mouth when you are writing your little barbs and lies about NCBA, Sandhusker? I'd sorta like to see it. Pictureing that is part of my motivation here, I must confess.


Tex, R-CALF has been filing their lawsuits for years. What else do they have to show for it, other than some wealthy attorneys? Why do they continue it if they don't think they can make cattle producers more successful by doing so? Looks like the idiocy is in continuing to push the same old lawsuits.

BTW, it was differences in services TO MEMBERS, not NCBA policy issues are the "philisophical differences" between Coteau Hills and SDCA, as described previously in this thread. Other state affiliates want state dues money spent to focus on issues, especially at local and state levels.

The issues you are relating to here are on the national level, and NCBA membership has grown significantly the past few years, but thank you for your concern, misplaced as it is.

I've posted MANY, MANY times that I DO NOT CONDONE false claims, or hiding anything about beef production.....or anything else.....yet you continue to claim that I do. Are you a pathological liar, unable to help yourself? If so, you have my pity, but I will not enable you by failing to point out your lies.

I may support private BSE testing if and when adequate testing is completed and recognized and proof of test accuracy is available. IMO, that will take time, just as some claim incubation of BSE takes time.

You fantasize or lie when you say I do not want consumers to have truth. I just don't want them to have half-truths and spinning and innuendo posing as truth.

I "look out for my own interests" by using science based animal husbandry practices to produce great cattle, and age verification, other appropriate information, and premise ID so that purchasers of our cattle can tell which practices we use in order that those, including ourselves, who add value to our cattle can benefit.

What is it you do to look out for any producers interests, other than telling consumers that "commodity beef," which incidentally may be all they can afford, and most of which is equally safe as any other beef, is probably fed garbage and poisons and will harm them?

mrj
 
I didn't ask for the lame reasons behind the decision. They didn't make sense then, they really don't make sense now. What I asked you is how US producers benefitted from that policy.
 
MRJ, "You are totally incorrect saying NCBA "leadership can completely reverse membership decrees". That decision was made after seeking the approval of state affiliate directors."

State affiliate directors are not leadership? Are you related to Dick Cheney?
 
MOST state affiliate leaders (state board of directors) are NOT in leadership of NCBA. Maybe a couple are, maybe just the pres.

Have you not heard of conference phone call meetings?

You must be related to Johnny Smith, they way you spin, shuffle, and jive simple facts in order to twist them appear to support your anti-NCBA agenda.

mrj
 
MRJ, "MOST state affiliate leaders (state board of directors) are NOT in leadership of NCBA. Maybe a couple are, maybe just the pres. " :shock: A leader is not in leadership? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Back to the question; How did that policy help producers?
 
Active, participating cattle producer members is what makes SDCA the valuable organization that it is. IT is the SD cattle org. which does not have a 'sugar daddy' and doesn't lure members with 'free' meals. Just provides good workshops and responsible, knowledgeable leadership in SDBIC,giving SD one of the strongest voices in Beef Checkoff management over the past several years. SDCA policies issues have had some success in setting NCBA policy issues as well.

mrj[/quote]

Oh my! What are you insinuateing, "sugar daddy--free meals"??? It`s a free country isn`t it? Indicateing SDCA one of the strongest voices on the SDBIC is a dream in your own mind. If it were not for opposeing organizations there would be NO need for the council to exist. We could let NCBA call all the shots and forget about the grassroots producers who pay the checkoff. All the organizations have policy on the checkoff. Not all agree on the use of funds and yes we know that it will take a change in the ACT and Order to bring change about.
 
My only "insinuation" is that SDCA members choose to use their dues money on issues the members believe need attention, whether for change, or new projects, RATHER than for free meals to lure members to attend meetings. There ARE several ag groups in SD that advertise to come to their meetings and have a free meal. Whether that is dues money, of from some "sugar daddy" isn't revealed.

You cannot deny that several of the eight organizations having seats on the SDBIC, including SDCA, has had leaders on the SDBIC who are knowledgeable about the ENTIRE cattle and beef industry, can you Ernie?

The fact is, those knowledgeable leaders helped to put more SD BIC members on committees and boards of CBB and the Federation of State Beef Councils than some states with larger cattle numbers have, haven't they Ernie?

Maybe you are not aware of this, but SD has had more leaders in committees and boards, thereby giving our SD cattle producers a larger voice at the national level than if that leadership had focused totally inward by spending most of the money in SD, with far fewer beef consumers than could eat the cattle we produce.

Why, some of those groups have even tried to use checkoff money for purposes that it is not allowed under the law.. Good thing there have been some organizations represented who know the rules and don't try to break them.

mrj
 
I`m not denying the fact that there is represntation of knowledgable representation serveing in various capacties on both the state and national levels. But including ENTIRE cattle and beef industry is a stretch as the true repesentation did indicate in recent polls the need for change. As for keeping the money in SD, this could be a win win for us if some wouldn`t be intent on sending the money to the national. And it would be done under the current rules.

As for the "free meals", you can spell it anyway you want but don`t insinuate the intent of those attending.
 
I`m not denying the fact that there is represntation of knowledgable representation serveing in various capacties on both the state and national levels. But including ENTIRE cattle and beef industry is a stretch as the true repesentation did indicate in recent polls the need for change. As for keeping the money in SD, this could be a win win for us if some wouldn`t be intent on sending the money to the national. And it would be done under the current rules.

As for the "free meals", you can spell it anyway you want but don`t insinuate the intent of those attending.

Ernie
 
Ernie, there was NO "insinuate" regarding those attending the meetings.

The point is that SDCA members want their money used to support policy issues of the members, not provide free meals to attract attendance at the meetings.

mrj
 
mrj said:
Which policy, Sandhusker?

mrj

The NCBA policy that supported USDA banning private BSE testing. Now that there has been a couple years of water under the bridge, we don't need to speculate on how it may/may not affect us. We should know. You keep telling us how NCBA works hard for producers and has policies that benefit us, I'm asking you to tell me how US producers have benefitted from the private testing ban.
 
SAndhusker, while you may insist on instant gratification of what you want, grown-ups know that doing the right thing for the right reasons doesn't always lead to instant success.

Did accurate, effective, world-wide accepted tests exist at that time? I don't see any ads for them yet, do you????

Has politics in Asian nations played a part? YES!

Has our export market gained back a large percentage of what was lost? YES, more than half, and growing!

Science, whether emerging and accepted til disproven, or old and established, should the basis for producing safe food, shouldn't it?

BTW, have I said that EVERYTHING done by NCBA has been successful?

Do other organizations hit home runs with every action?

NCBA efforts succeed more often than not, and that really is what is biting your butt, if you would only admit it!

mrj
 
Did accurate, effective, world-wide accepted tests exist at that time? I don't see any ads for them yet, do you????

Yes they did. Phyllis Fong (USDA Inspector General) showed the USDA what works and what doesn't. :lol: :lol:

Where would YOU see an ad for BSE tests? In your church bulletin? :roll:

USDA inspector general says BSE hunt is flawed
Robert Roos News Editor


Jul 14, 2004 (CIDRAP News) – A draft report by the inspector general of the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) says the department's expanded surveillance program for bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) has several flaws that could lead to unreliable estimates of the prevalence of BSE in American cattle.

The report says the plan is based on some questionable assumptions, does not accurately reflect the geographic distribution of cattle, and does not ensure the testing of all high-risk cattle. In addition, the report says that in the past 2 to 3 years, more than 500 cattle that had possible symptoms of neurologic disease were not tested for BSE.

"The problems disclosed during our review, if not corrected, may negatively impact the effectiveness of USDA's overall BSE surveillance program . . . and reduce the credibility of any assertions regarding the prevalence of BSE in the United States," the 54-page report states.
 
mrj said:
SAndhusker, while you may insist on instant gratification of what you want, grown-ups know that doing the right thing for the right reasons doesn't always lead to instant success.

Did accurate, effective, world-wide accepted tests exist at that time? I don't see any ads for them yet, do you????

Has politics in Asian nations played a part? YES!

Has our export market gained back a large percentage of what was lost? YES, more than half, and growing!

Science, whether emerging and accepted til disproven, or old and established, should the basis for producing safe food, shouldn't it?

BTW, have I said that EVERYTHING done by NCBA has been successful?

Do other organizations hit home runs with every action?

NCBA efforts succeed more often than not, and that really is what is biting your butt, if you would only admit it!

mrj

You still haven't answered the question. Again, how have US producers benefited from that policy?
 
Sandhusker, how much more clearly can it be stated? The benefit to the US cattle producer is in sticking with science, over politically popular, UNPROVEN actions.

Even if I did not feel that way, where did I say that every policy is successful? Is it logical or reasonable to expect every action to succeed exactly the way we want it to?

Not even prayer is always answered IN THE WAY WE WANT, is it?

With that, I'm going to be too busy having fun the next few days to counter with common sense and facts, your attempts to denigrate me, as well as a fine organization.

Got an Ag banquet in Rapid City tonight, and basketball games Friday and Saturday night, and getting things in order at home to have fun in Omaha and Reno for the next ten days or so.

mrj
 

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