Ms. Reader, a light came on!

[rkaiser]

Went to a movie this evening with my dear wife, and was thinking about one of your posts. In it you said that you do not believe that misfolded prions occur spontaneously. For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Their is a reason the prions misfold. Prusiner's theory has no explaination for the misfolding besides what he calls factor X. Whoooooooo.

The group of peole that I associate with has a theory.

Prions occur naturally and have a purpose, as does everything that occurs naturally in the universe. When a prion is exposed on the surface of a cell in the brain of an unfortunate TSE victim, the purpose of the prion is to collect rouge metals where existing hydrogen atoms were previously attached. We believe that when the hydrogen atoms are released, they are replaced with (let's say) copper and the prion then folds naturally back into the cell. If copper is in short supply in the surrounding area, other rouge metals may bind causing the misfolded or unnatural effect.

This is a very basic explaination for the cause of a misfolded prion, I know, but at least it is something more than the X factor that begins the story of an infectious agent that has never been proven, but has been followed by yourself and as you say 99.9999999999% of the righteous ones on this earth. Why not test for metals in contaminated BSE brain samples, or grab some off a cadabre of some CJD victim. What would it hurt. Might I suggest that you ask this of the people you say you know in the confidential world of TSE research.

Thanks for giving me one reader(the second) I owe you.
:roll:

 

[rkaiser]

Sorry for the spelling; only barely have grade twelve and a few pysch courses after spending a bit of time out in the brain massage bin. :roll:

 

[rkaiser]

The reason that I have personally become so convinced by the metal contamination factor is the lack of evidence, and simply childish way that tranmission or infection is explained by the Prusiner theory.

Once again my opinion; I cannot deny the fact that prions have been found in blood, or even muscle tissue. Nor can I deny that misfolded prions may have been found in blood or muscle tissue. However, the jury is out on how those misfolded prions got there. Maybe those misfolded prions in the blood, or in the muscle tissue were misfolded right where they occur.

The theory that misfolded prions are where they are because they were transmitted to the location is simplistic and nonfactual based. This is simply a theory based on guessing and possibly the fact that no true cause for the outbreak of BSE in the UK has ever been resolved.

This theory is so easily dispelled by basic grade nine biology, yet the whole world is caught up in using MAD COW disease as some kind of excuse for a problem that does not even hardly exist.

I don't think we should push the envelope, and go about eating the brain and spinal column of BSE infected cattle. There is a lot of good meat being wasted every day, why not watse a bit of the stuff that I can't really imagine tasting all that good anyway.

Back to the grade nine biology for just a second, and then I will leave.

For a protein to be passed from an animals gut to any other part of it's body, the protein must go through the digestion process. Digestion of protein in any animal invovles chemical breakdown, as we don't have the luxury of having steel balls pounding away inside of our stomachs to break apart molecules. The Misfolded prion (protein) has been said to be indestructible. In fact talk of Misfolded prions continueing to be viable in the soil where unfortunate victims lie, has led to an almost eerie alien like scenerio being portrayed. If these misfolded prions cannot be destroyed outside of an animals body,,,,,,,, how the hell are we to beleive that they can pass through the gut wall via digestion, pass through the intrastitial fluid to the blood, and then from the blood through the blood brain barrier to the brain? Sounds a bit like a science fiction movie to me.

This whole misfolded prion question is the basis for all things associated with TSE's, yet the focus of modern science simply accepts this illogical notion and goes on to find things like tests for detection, and even somehow "a cure". Ridiculous. First tell me a logical answer for transmission and then we can all move on.

 

[rkaiser]

One could be called a conspirist for talking of Mark Purdey using OP's in his arguement for chemical disruption Ms. Reader. Many things can cause chemical imbalance and therefore no one excuse for BSE or even TSE's. Humans need that one excuse, we need something or someone to blame.

I will read more of your links when I have a moment, but remeber that whether written by infectious theory supporters, or the growing number or scientist who question the infectious theory, all papers will be bias.

Think about what I have written from your own human standpoint, and dispell it without the crutch of biased articles.

It's time for more practical people like yourself to step back and question some of the unproven parts of the theory the world follows.

 

[Murgen]

Randy and Reader, not sure if you have read this article. I read it last night, some interesting info.


http://www.ela-europe.org/science/environmental%20factors%20in%20prion%20diseases.pdf

 

[Murgen]

Another alternate theory

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030701-094458-6348r.htm

 

[Mike]

I have been reading with fascination the back and forths between you two concerning the causatives of BSE. Since we don't know the actual cause and origination yet we should be focusing on transmission research and most importantly finding the suspected carriers.
20 years from now what will the public say when they find out that the US and Canada is only testing a very small percentage of the respective herds?
The cattle business in England is completely devastated partly because of the guvment's slow reactions, and the the USDA's and CFIA's responses at present are eerily similar. Too many positives have been found since the feed ban in the UK to sit back and wait for it to go away. For anyone to use the terms "sound" and "science" relating to BSE in the same phrase is baffling.

 

[Briand]

Very good article Murgen. Thanks for posting the link.

 

[frasercattleco]

Ok, for anyone that feels left behind, but wants to put in their two cents, here is a sort - of explanation in "layman's" terms.

There are strings of amino acids that combine to form proteins inside cells. They are then compressed and folded into a conformation permitting them to function properly. These prion proteins, or PrP, are folded in the endoplasmic reticulum of the cell, then move from that organelle and make their way to the surface of the cell. This is the natural process of cells, when the above mentioned processes happen, the cell functions properly. When certain diseases such as Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, Kuru, Fatal familial Insomnia, and Alpers Syndrome come around in their human variants this means that the normal cell process is disrupted, or the protein misfolds within an organelle inside the cell, transforming itself into a new agent and then poisoning the neuron in which it was made. Diseases in animals include scrapie in sheep, chronic wasting disease in deer and bovine spongiform encephalopathy in cattle.

But occasionally, the proteins will fold incorrectly, forming a molecule called PrPsc. When they are produced within the endoplasmic reticulum, these other malformed proteins are jettisoned from that organelle into the fluid cytosol which fills the cell. Basically they rip through the inner workings of a cell and thrash into the outermost open, vast areas of a cell. There, other organelles called proteasomes normally disassemble the PrPsc molecules safely into their components.

But if the proteasomes can't digest PrP quickly enough, the protein accumulates in the cytosol and can alter the cell's metabolism, killing it in the process. When this small amount of PrP gets out into the cytosol, which causes the toxicity to the neural cells. If you looked at the tissue from patients who have died from TSE diseases, the brains appear sponge-like, riddled with empty spaces where healthy neural cells once thrived.

PrPsc is able to spontaneously form within the cytosol. Once there, it can convert normal PrP into PrPsc, aiding in the destruction of host nerve cells and helping the disease to spread from cell to cell. Some scientists have suggested that proteasome activity may decrease as a person grows older, which could facilitate PrP's ability to overwhelm these organelles and kill the cell. That would give a term or a face if you will to the widely held suspicion of the "Anomaly".

Sam

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

For anyone to use the terms "sound" and "science" relating to BSE in the same phrase is baffling.

Mike, you got that right. In this post-modern age where constructivism is becoming the normative thought pattern, I think that those terms will increasingly mean less. Fiasoes like the mishandling of this BSE issue will only accelerate the process of dismantling the holy and untouchable aura that science has enjoyed.

The question will rightly be posed - Whose science, yours or mine? We will choose to use the science that best suits our purposes. Will time ultimately show us "reality"?