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My Oh My, imagine that...

Kato

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
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Location
Manitoba - At the end of the road
The Hong Kong government's Centre for Food Safety has resumed processing applications for imports of bone-in beef from Canada, effective Monday.

The centre said in a statement Monday that it will "partially" lift its suspension of Canadian bone-in beef imports, which dates back to the discovery of Canada's first case of BSE in an Alberta cow in 2003.

The Hong Kong special administrative region resumed imports of boneless Canadian beef in late 2004.

"At the initial stage, only beef rib cuts and other bone-in products (except vertebral column cuts) from cattle less than 30 months old are allowed to be imported from Canada," the centre said Monday.

"Each and every consignment of bone-in beef products must have the (centre's) prior written permission and be accompanied by a health certificate."

The centre also said it will "closely monitor the situation and review our import requirements as and when necessary."

Quoted on the U.S. meat industry website Meatingplace.com on Wednesday, Philip Seng, president of the U.S. Meat Export Federation, said the resumption of Canadian bone-in beef exports to Hong Kong could give Canada a new edge in that market.

U.S. boneless beef until now has been gaining market share in Hong Kong while Canada's has declined, Seng said, but the popularity of bone-in short ribs in Hong Kong, where U.S. bone-in beef remains prohibited, may alter that trend in Canada's favour.

"While the quality of U.S. beef has made it a popular choice in this region, we certainly have some catching up to do in terms of market access," Seng was quoted as saying.

Now watch what happens next. We've been told that the U.S. doesn't need our beef, but just guess what happens if we send it to another country instead, and displace some of your exports. Will there be complaints? Gee .... I wonder. :roll: :roll:
 
Why would there be, the R-CALF mindset says US producers don't benefit from what the evil corporations ship out as exports!!!!

mrj
 
As a proud R-CALF member, I think it's a good deal and I wish Canada well, in spite of what any NCBA parrot would tell you. I hope you send every swinging carcass you have to Hong Kong.
 
mrj said:
Why would there be, the R-CALF mindset says US producers don't benefit from what the evil corporations ship out as exports!!!!

mrj

No, MRJ, you've got that wrong AGAIN. R-CALF knows that US producers don't benefit from IMPORTS.
 
Sandhusker, some of your big promoters on radio in SD say that producer don't get a bit of benefit from EXPORTS. One of them is a director, so it should be safe to believe he doesn't speak AGAINST 'company policy', shouldn't it????

AND, if it sells MORE of US produced fatty trim to put some imported lean trim with it, obviously whoever produced the fat cattle benefits from selling more pounds of their critters as part of a higher value leaner hamburger product than if the fatty trim was sold at the lower fatty hamburger price, don't they?

mrj
 
To me this is great...Anything that helps Canadian producers break their dependence off riding on the shirttails of the US producer- and sucking hind teat on whatever the multinationals allow them to scrape the bone for is good for Canada and the US...After BSE was discovered it became apparent that this is what Canada has needed to do- expand their export area/direction and quit putting all their eggs in one basket counting completely on the US to carry them....
 
mrj said:
Sandhusker, some of your big promoters on radio in SD say that producer don't get a bit of benefit from EXPORTS. One of them is a director, so it should be safe to believe he doesn't speak AGAINST 'company policy', shouldn't it????

AND, if it sells MORE of US produced fatty trim to put some imported lean trim with it, obviously whoever produced the fat cattle benefits from selling more pounds of their critters as part of a higher value leaner hamburger product than if the fatty trim was sold at the lower fatty hamburger price, don't they?

mrj

If you can show a direct corealtion between beef prices and fats prices, then maybe you've got a point. Can you do it?
 
SAndhusker, are you saying that when farmer feeders get paid more for their fattened cattle, they are not willing to pay more for the feeders they buy? BTW, I don't look at ranchersnet every day, let alone every five minutes as you seem able to do.

mrj
 
mrj said:
SAndhusker, are you saying that when farmer feeders get paid more for their fattened cattle, they are not willing to pay more for the feeders they buy? BTW, I don't look at ranchersnet every day, let alone every five minutes as you seem able to do.

mrj

No, I'm not saying that, MRJ. You are always implying that packers will pay more for our cattle when they're making more money. Therefore, we should be supportive of whatever helps them maximize profits, even if that would be imported lean.

I'm challenging that thinking by asking for actual facts that would support that. I'm asking you to show a direct correalation between packer profits and fed cattle prices that would justify a producer concern for those packer profits.
 
Sandhusker said:
mrj said:
SAndhusker, are you saying that when farmer feeders get paid more for their fattened cattle, they are not willing to pay more for the feeders they buy? BTW, I don't look at ranchersnet every day, let alone every five minutes as you seem able to do.

mrj

No, I'm not saying that, MRJ. You are always implying that packers will pay more for our cattle when they're making more money. Therefore, we should be supportive of whatever helps them maximize profits, even if that would be imported lean.

I'm challenging that thinking by asking for actual facts that would support that. I'm asking you to show a direct correalation between packer profits and fed cattle prices that would justify a producer concern for those packer profits.

Is there a direct correlation between bank profits and rates paid on deposits?
 
Richard Doolittle said:
Sandhusker said:
mrj said:
SAndhusker, are you saying that when farmer feeders get paid more for their fattened cattle, they are not willing to pay more for the feeders they buy? BTW, I don't look at ranchersnet every day, let alone every five minutes as you seem able to do.

mrj

No, I'm not saying that, MRJ. You are always implying that packers will pay more for our cattle when they're making more money. Therefore, we should be supportive of whatever helps them maximize profits, even if that would be imported lean.

I'm challenging that thinking by asking for actual facts that would support that. I'm asking you to show a direct correalation between packer profits and fed cattle prices that would justify a producer concern for those packer profits.

Is there a direct correlation between bank profits and rates paid on deposits?

Nope. Like any other business, a bank will keep expenses as low as possible regardless of profits on the other end. In this case, you're talking about the "Cost of Funds", and a bank will pay as little as they can get away with for those funds. It's just basic business common sense.
 
Sandhusker, if the bank is LOSING money, CAN they pay more, or lees, on deposits than if they are MAKING a profit?

CAN a packer pay MORE , or LESS, for cattle depending upon whether or not they make a PROFIT, or suffer a LOSS?

Sure, market rates figure into cattle prices and even you probably do not pay more than you HAVE to to buy your bulls.......or do you?

Does every packer pay the same to everyone who sells cattle to them? Does anything other than basic quality affect prices paid? Such as number the seller has compared with the number the packer needs on a given shift? I've been told by some farmer feeders that happen to live relatively near a packing plant that they can get impressive premiums if they can deliver a specific number of animals at a given time, often on very short notice, and that is only one of many reasons a given packer may have for paying more to one person than to another. MARKETING is the name of the game, I believe. And, I"ve always acknowledged that marketing is not my strong point in the cattle business. Other family members are better educated in that area and I'm happy that is so. I find it less interesting than other facets of raising cattle, while realizing it may be one of the most important.

We will never agree on this because you and your association believe the packer and others to be the main reason there is often little or no profit for the producer and I (and the organizations I join) believe lack of knowledge of the entire industry and lack of will to gain and properly use the needed knowledge is more of a problem/cause.


mrj
BTW, I have NOTHING to do with running any bank.
 
MRJ, "CAN a packer pay MORE , or LESS, for cattle depending upon whether or not they make a PROFIT, or suffer a LOSS? "

They CAN pay more. You CAN pay more at the grocery store, if you choose. You CAN raise your own bid at an auction, but WILL you? CAN THEY is not the question, WILL THEY is.

I have asked you many time, MRJ, to show me a direct correalation between packer profits and cattle prices. You can't do it. That should tell you something! Since you can't figure it out, I'll tell you; REGARDLESS OF PROFITS, PACKERS WILL ALWAYS PAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE FOR CATTLE. Therefore, what sense does it make for producers to support the packers replacing our product with the product of our competitors just to enhance their profitabilty? IT DOESN'T!.

You NCBA types keep presenting this foreign lean importation deal like it's a give and get thing for US producers, but THERE'S NO GET IN IT FOR PRODUCERS! That would be shown by the connection of packer profits and US cattle prices, BUT YOU CAN'T SHOW THAT. Regardless of whether they bring in Aussie lean to replace US culls or US chucks, THEY WILL STILL PAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE FOR US CATTLE.
 
Sandhusker said:
MRJ, "CAN a packer pay MORE , or LESS, for cattle depending upon whether or not they make a PROFIT, or suffer a LOSS? "

They CAN pay more. You CAN pay more at the grocery store, if you choose. You CAN raise your own bid at an auction, but WILL you? CAN THEY is not the question, WILL THEY is.

I have asked you many time, MRJ, to show me a direct correalation between packer profits and cattle prices. You can't do it. That should tell you something! Since you can't figure it out, I'll tell you; REGARDLESS OF PROFITS, PACKERS WILL ALWAYS PAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE FOR CATTLE. Therefore, what sense does it make for producers to support the packers replacing our product with the product of our competitors just to enhance their profitabilty? IT DOESN'T!.

You NCBA types keep presenting this foreign lean importation deal like it's a give and get thing for US producers, but THERE'S NO GET IN IT FOR PRODUCERS! That would be shown by the connection of packer profits and US cattle prices, BUT YOU CAN'T SHOW THAT. Regardless of whether they bring in Aussie lean to replace US culls or US chucks, THEY WILL STILL PAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE FOR US CATTLE.

You're right Sandhusker. The market is not even SUPPOSED to work that way. Regardless of profitability, the packers are supposed to price cattle according to supply and demand. When the supply of cattle is tight, the price is supposed to go up, because there are more packers chasing fewer cattle. Over the long haul packers, and everybody else, must have profitabilility in order to stay in business. Packer profit is also affected by packer customers, mostly retailers, who are market manipulators even more effectively than the packers. So while the retailers manipulate the packers and reduce packer profits, the packers turn around and do the same to us, just in order to stay in business.
 
Cinch said:
Sandhusker said:
MRJ, "CAN a packer pay MORE , or LESS, for cattle depending upon whether or not they make a PROFIT, or suffer a LOSS? "

They CAN pay more. You CAN pay more at the grocery store, if you choose. You CAN raise your own bid at an auction, but WILL you? CAN THEY is not the question, WILL THEY is.

I have asked you many time, MRJ, to show me a direct correalation between packer profits and cattle prices. You can't do it. That should tell you something! Since you can't figure it out, I'll tell you; REGARDLESS OF PROFITS, PACKERS WILL ALWAYS PAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE FOR CATTLE. Therefore, what sense does it make for producers to support the packers replacing our product with the product of our competitors just to enhance their profitabilty? IT DOESN'T!.

You NCBA types keep presenting this foreign lean importation deal like it's a give and get thing for US producers, but THERE'S NO GET IN IT FOR PRODUCERS! That would be shown by the connection of packer profits and US cattle prices, BUT YOU CAN'T SHOW THAT. Regardless of whether they bring in Aussie lean to replace US culls or US chucks, THEY WILL STILL PAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE FOR US CATTLE.

You're right Sandhusker. The market is not even SUPPOSED to work that way. Regardless of profitability, the packers are supposed to price cattle according to supply and demand. When the supply of cattle is tight, the price is supposed to go up, because there are more packers chasing fewer cattle. Over the long haul packers, and everybody else, must have profitabilility in order to stay in business. Packer profit is also affected by packer customers, mostly retailers, who are market manipulators even more effectively than the packers. So while the retailers manipulate the packers and reduce packer profits, the packers turn around and do the same to us, just in order to stay in business.

And the effect of imported cattle/beef on supply and demand and market manipulation- was best shown when Canada found BSE and the border was closed to even just those imports/access- and even tho we later lost our export markets when the Washington cow was found-- we still had record high cattle prices that have not been seen again since the border reopened...
 
And up to the day before the border closed we had also record high cattle prices. It was that part of the cattle cycle where the prices were good, and you would have had them anyway. Who knows when they'll be back, because it seems like the cattle cycle has become a thing of the past.
 
Kato said:
And up to the day before the border closed we had also record high cattle prices. It was that part of the cattle cycle where the prices were good, and you would have had them anyway. Who knows when they'll be back, because it seems like the cattle cycle has become a thing of the past.

Cattle cycle?? What cattle cycle? Cattle numbers have been going down for a VERY long time. USDA called the bottom about three years ago, then said OOPS, we were wrong. We have a continuing decline in numbers which is another indicator that the market is broken.
 
Again, I'm not claiming to be completely knowledgeable about everything involved in marketing cattle, but I do know it is far more complex than simply blaming packers for being greedy and profiting at producer expense!

Those who want packers punished for market ills are serving no one well, IMO.

mrj
 

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