• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Need some input on website content

Howdyjabo

Active member
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
32
Location
NC
I am working on a website for the farm

If you guys have time and want to be helpful I'd like some input on content

I have someone that it going to gussy up the phrasing and grammar- but she doesn't know about cattledogs or cattle.

I know its too long--- what can I cut out..........
what doesn't make sense the way I wrote it........
and what just plain needs to be removed :) .........

Thanks in advance

______________________________________________________

Working Border Collies

We have been using Border Collies to help with the calves for 20 yrs.



Too many people feel that papers are a certificate of breedability or proof of a quality dog and its ruining the Breed .And papers don't impress me that much- unless they are used to back up an already impressive dog.
There are way too many dogs that look like a Border Collie and have papers that don't have adequate working instincts.And I fear their ranks are growing faster than the true working dogs are.
The best you can hope for out of a well bred litter is that 30% of the pups are breeding quality. . The only way to tell if an individual pup is breedable is to let it grow up-- work it and work it hard- . The very best workers should get bred the rest get worked and appreciated for the great dog that they are.


When you go looking for a dog or pup to buy- Find a well established breeder with generations behind their dogs- doing the same type of work you want your dog to be doing at a higher level that you anticipate needing.
If yo don't plan on working your dog but still appreciate the breeds other qualities- you should still go to an accomplished working breeder and support them- so the breed stays the same as the one you originally appreciated.
If you don't want a dog with ALL the qualities that are common in the Border Collie breed(admittedly some can be a handful)- don't look for a breeder trying to minimize those qualities- you need to be looking for a different breed altogether.

I tinkered with Sheepdog trialling while I had young kids and wasn't working the calves daily.My dogs did real well what few trials we made it out to.Despite my Dyslexia being a constant challange for me and the dogs. But Trialling is not for me though I did learn a lot that I transferred over to the cattle work. I also learned what didn't transfer over after several confusing years. .
The kids are grown and I'm back working the calves everyday- and find the challenging work with fresh calves much more satisfying than the artificial trials.

I got started with working dogs soon after I met my husband- at the time he was backgrounding a calves and feeding them silage with a shovel off the back of his truck . He needed all the help he could get.
I had a pet Aussie that rode with me when I did it. The calves(60+) were pushy and kept knocking me into the truck or the troughs and I didn't like it. She growled at them so I thought "get down here and help me out" which she did . The calves didn't come within 20 ft of me when she was around- and with hungry calves and me shoveling slow- it was quite an accomplishment.
Then we switched to pre-conditioning calves(thanks to the Dairy buyout) – and all of a sudden I needed a dog to round up the calves instead of running them off- at the same time I saw a program on TV where some guys out west were using Border Collies. So I asked around and found a guy that had gotten one and never used it and left it tied up behind the barn for two years. I brought it home and took it to the pasture with me and put up the calves. She did ok.And day by day she took over for me- which was great since in dog terms I am very weak and the calves know it... Little did I know at the time that that was AMAZING.
Over the next few years I was given several more dogs- most worked out- some didn't.
If I was picking up free dogs now twenty years latter the odds are that most of the dogs wouldn't have worked out and I would have been Disappointed in the breed as a whole and quit trying to use dogs. People have to be much more careful where they get a working Border Collie from now- the general working genes have been eroded over the years with careless breeding..
Over the years I have made many mistakes starting and working dogs -Like starting my next pups in earnest at 5 months old. But time and time again most well bred dogs will overcome almost every mistake we make- but taking the work out of them- and leaving them tied up behind the barn.. Most will become useful dogs given half a chance and enough work to ease the edge off..

Investing money and time in a dog is paid back a hundredfold of their working lifespan.
In saved time and money but the most valuable is their adoration and companionship and having a working partner to lean on to get you thru the day.
Not to mention they are a lot cheaper ,reliable and easier to get along with than most hired hands or relatives.

I like to pick mates for my dogs that I know first hand how they started. To me how a dog starts is more important than how they finish up. If a dog doesn't have the right attitude ,stock sense and heart, to start fairly easy- it doesn't really matter how great it can get or how much it can overcome with a lot of training time and effort.
- some are late bloomers- which is ok as they can catch up or pass by the early starters once they get going.
Most farmers don't have the time or energy to put that much effort into getting a dog started- they need one geared to go to work- and work FOR them..
Then the dog has to have the brains and the heart to become proficient at hard labor and taking commands . Some dogs wash out as a breeding prospect under the added pressure .
I like to see a cunning dog that can think thru problems and solve them and take lessons learned today and remember them for the next time. .
And the dog has to be able to completely control stock- and at the same time be very soothing and relaxing to the stock. Agitated calves cost me money.


Now I start my dogs on goats and sheep . Its easier for both me and the young dog. And its more manageable than starting on the calves. But I start taking them to cattle as soon as I feel they have some idea of whats going on and I have a good recall off stock on them.
There are differences between goats,sheep and cattle- and I think its important to get them adjusted to the cattle mindset early on. Its a lot easier to back a dog down some than it is to gear it back up. And a young dog needs some of that extra enthusiasm and bluster to move cattle till they develop confidence and power.
I don't keep any training cattle around-- the dogs learn working the calves that I make my living off of. I usually have at least one load(60-80 hd) that has been around for a few weeks and broke to the dogs and the. idea of being penned. So I usually start a pup there- and I take an older dog to create flow and for backup.

The calves that I have are among the most challenging for a dog to work that there is.
They are not co mingled-- so they operate as individuals when they first come. They are fresh off of sales and most are fresh cut- so they are wore out and not in a real cooperative mood.
I get smaller calves fresh off following momma around- it takes awhile before they establish a moving rank- and the first few day they just want to mill around instead of getting up and flowing.
I also get big cutting bulls in- they are a real challenge as some of them have developed their bull attitude- and they are in a REAL bad mood. They are agitated being thrown in with 60 other bulls and if pressured would much rather fight than flee. Where most stock has an attraction to each other these big bulls repel each other- so getting them all up and moving and keeping them together is a full time job for two dogs and me.
.
After the third or fourth day- most loads are broke to the routine- still
It hard day in and day out grind- that takes a very special dog with a lot of heart and talent to handle. The dog has to have the power and presence that the calves naturally respect or it wouldn't be able bite enough calves quick enough to get the whole group together and moving at the same time.

I don't work the dogs with the idea that I have to prove they can handle anything. My first concern is that the cattle get what they need with the least amount of stress. And sometimes that means getting the dogs out of the way and doing it myself.
And I don't hesitate to help the dogs out when they get in over their head.

I also have learned that when I am in a hurry things don't go well-- so I don't rush the dogs unless I have to- which would be when we are loosing control of the whole group for dealing with one or two animals.
I have also learned to give the dogs the freedom and time to choose the best way to get cattle moving- they can read cattle better than I ever could. I have a "get them moving command" which will gear them up- and I have a "take it" command which means bite it and bite it hard now- which I rarely use . Mostly its when one calf turns to break and I see 20 more right behind it thinking the same thing. We Don't have time to ease that first one into changing its mind – before we have a lot more work to do.
A confrontational calf most times can be handled without ever having the dogs bite it.
Mostly the dogs only bite to change a calfs repeated uncooperative attitude- teach a calf that the fluffy toy it wants to play with has teeth or encourage the independent calf to actively seek the comfort of the group or when the dog (or me) is being attacked.
Someone asked me once why most "showoff" cattledog pictures
show the dogs aggressively biting calves- yet they claim that their dogs are not eat'em up dogs. The reason is that with a cattledog the "bite" is critical to the dogs overall success- even if it rarely uses it. A cattledog with no bite is as useful as a sheepdog with no outrun . So we need to prove its there if needed-hence we use a picture showing the bite-instead of the dog calmly following the cattle. Plus its just a more interesting looking picture :) .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dogs that Got me started

Suzy- was my original dog that most of my current dogs are related to.
She was given to me after being tied up for two years – she taught me how cattle should be worked.. Luckily she broke herself to work great, while she was breaking me and the cattle in at the same time-- Great dog.
Suzy was linebred back to Gilchrist Spot- with solid outcrosses

I also had- several other great dogs that for one reason or another I didn't get any offspring of before they passed on . Zeke(unrelated) Harvey(Suzy son) and Ike(Leah son).

Other good dogs were Annie(unrelated) Willie(Suzy son),Jabo(Suzy son),and Bo(Suzy son)

Current Dogs

Leah- Suzy X Flash(Irish Import from Flood lines)
I started Leah when I was into sheepdog trialing- where she did VERY well. I even sent her out west where she held her own on really tough stock(unlike most trials in the east). She was 8 or 9 when I went back to working cattle- it took her a little while to get over the anal sheepdog training then she did real well for me on cattle-- shes 14 now and I just had to retire her. The workload was getting too much for her old bones. I still have to shut her up or she'll come join us.

Curly- Suzy grandson.
Curly is a real good using dog- couldn't have gotten thru most days without his help. But IMO hes not a breeding prospect- he'll only give 100% even when I need 110%. Most of the time thats good enough-but not for breeding..

Jill--( Hangingtree; Sagebrush&Gary Erricson lines)X McCallum bred dog-linebred back to Sheeba) . Jill is fullblood but I never got the papers.
Jill worried me when I first got her. I had never worked a purely western cattledog bred dog. And I had heard so much about them being just rip and tear dogs. She had everything I needed except she had only one gear to her bite. She bit one that looked at her wrong as hard as she bit one that was trying to kill her.
Thankfully I hung in there with her and she worked thru it and in my opinion she is the perfect cattledog.

Hoss- LeahX Lonerider Dirk (linebred back to RL Alexanders Griz)
I chose Dirk---- as the sire because I started him for the owner. He was the most natural powerful dog I had ever seen.First time on stock he was ALL business and acted like he'd done it his whole life. I didn't take a shine to Hoss- and still had enough dogs working that I didn't need him-so I gave him to a neighbor - sadly they never gave him enough work to make the most of him.So he remained an unknown entity.

Dell- JillXHoss
even though Hoss wasn't prooven near enough for my comfort. He was the last of my original Suzy lines around and I loved his sire (who was no longer available)– so I choose him despite my very real misgivngs.
Dell is 7months old now- and she seems to be her mother(Jill) reincarnated. So far I'm in love.In the yard and house She is such a wild nut case- but put her on stock and shes all business.
She started on sheep just like her grandsire (Dirk)- and I've took her to the cattle several times and she seems to have the right instincts. Time will tell but I have a real good feeling about her. Breeding to a risky stud (Hoss) with my fingers crossed may have paid off...... this time.

Runt- JillXHoss
Littermate to Dell- I've had him on sheep and the calves a few times. Hes not really turned on enough yet to start in ernest . But he reminds me of his grandmother(Leah) so I still have real high hopes for him.
 
I sure enjoyed your stories. I am not one to give advice on grammar ect but am working on our web site information now as well.
We will both have to post our web adresses in our profiles when they are ready.
 
I have a pro that is going to work on the editing- fixing all those pesky ENGLISH issues for me.

I just have to give her the content .
I don't know how long it will be till she gets it done-- its a little cheeky to be rushing free labor :)
 
Read yur thing and am impressed,If yur dogs have same attitutude, I am in need of one.Have been looking toooo long since lost my Border.E-mail me
 
couldnt tell you one thing about your web site,But with you being in NC and I'm in Al. we should get togather and herd some cows sometime.I'm not sure if I read it right,but are you totally against reg. stock or does it not really bother you if there isn't any papers to show that its who it says it is.Around here some will sell one as something else if not careful.I like reg. dogs because it shows me where they came from.Not that papers will make the dog,but everything helps especially when picking a pup.PM me sometime and if your down we can work the ranch some.
 
I can take it that if you are inviting me to herd cows-- that the content wasn't too bad.

I don't travel much at all-- it puts too much pressure on the farm and family- when I take off.
If you are up around here I'd love to have you visit. Nothin better than working and talking dogs.

I'm glad that I asked for feedback-- you are the second person that called me on the paper issue--- I'lll need to clean that up somehow. Or drop it altogether.
I guess my main point was that some people are getting to be more impressed by papers- than what the dog is really capable of doing. And thats wrong.

Papers are GREAT- if they are used right- they are full of critical information that could get lost without them.
They make a great dog even better- cause you have the background information too.

You are right though- that the papers are only as good as the person that applied for them
Guess I could even use some old papers I have laying around and paper up my Jill dog :)

It doesn't bother me in the least to breed Jill(definetly doesn't bother me to work her :) ) without having her papers to pass on-- Luckily I knew who her dam and sire were so I still have acess to all the critical information.
If the pups turn out and it gets important for them to have papers- they can easily be ROM'd and all the info I have on their background would be there to use again.

Much rather have a good dog with no papers/ than a bad dog papered up the wazoo.
 
I think everyone has their own opinions on websites, so take my comments as just that.....opinion & preference.

I like a simple front page but one that grabs your attention & makes you want to open the other pages. Usually a good picture does that quicker for me than lots of words. Like in your case, maybe a good action picture of the dogs working.

From there, you can put links to other pages with your philosophy, history, current/past dogs, puppies for sale, etc.

Websites should be personal & reflect you & your program which yours does well. I'd just like to see it split up somehow (like in separate pages or maybe on a "philosophy" or "about us" page).

Good luck.
 
He He--
Funny you said that
I hate a single picture home page-- irritates me to wait that long to find no useful information-- to decide if I want to wait to see more
but then I am on REALLYYYYYYYYYYYYy SLOWWWWWW
Dialup
 
Howdyjabo said:
I hate a single picture home page-- irritates me to wait that long to find no useful information-- to decide if I want to wait to see more

:lol2:

As I said.....personal preference. :lol:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top