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New Design 878 daughters

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Faster horses said:
I am concerned about ADDING frame size to our cows. In that regard I thought perhaps 004 would ADD. If he is a 5.5 that is what we are seeking. Somewhere I got that he was a 6.5. I want to maintain or drop back a bit, not make these cows any bigger than they already are. It is tough not to add size since Angus are getting bigger and bigger.

Kit Pharo calls it "Frame Creep" and it is here.
Click to expand...
I they call him a 6.5 frame bull Faster Horses, I think they are stretching it a bit. As a mature bull he sure didnt' look as big as mine (we were standing in sand) which is a 5.75. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt at 5.5. To me he could have easily been a 5 frame. He looked smaller to me than I think 878 would be after seeing the 878 calves. He was a pretty nice bull. I would use him. I am going to go look and see what size they call him. [/b]
 
Faster horses said:
I am concerned about ADDING frame size to our cows. In that regard I thought perhaps 004 would ADD. If he is a 5.5 that is what we are seeking. Somewhere I got that he was a 6.5. I want to maintain or drop back a bit, not make these cows any bigger than they already are. It is tough not to add size since Angus are getting bigger and bigger.

Kit Pharo calls it "Frame Creep" and it is here.
Click to expand...
If they call him a 6.5 frame bull Faster Horses, I think they are stretching it a bit. As a mature bull he sure didnt' look as big as mine (we were standing in sand) which is a 5.75. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt at 5.5. To me he could have easily been a 5 frame. He looked smaller to me than I think 878 would be after seeing the 878 calves. He was a pretty nice bull. I would use him. I am going to go look and see what size they call him.
 
They call him a 6.5 like you said Faster Horses. I could have missed him but I sure wouldn't think he was that big. I'll get a closer look next time and try to pay attention. If he was a 6.5 frame he would sure weigh more than 2350 with the capacity and muscle he carried.
 
I only brought 004 up a a reference to my point it had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the bull. My point is that everyone in the registered business is going nuts over the bull breeding tons of cows to him when he doesn't have any daughters in production. That is when I consider a bull to be proven. Addtionally those daughters need to come back bred in the fall while nursing their calves under range conditions.

004 will probably pass the test of time but one never knows for sure.
 
Sorry to hijack your thread. I thought foreman gave you a valid answer. I have no personal experience with 878 daughters and my "range" conditions on fescue has little bearing on anyones operation who isn't in fescue anyway.
 
I don't know if you would call it "hijacking" , but many of these threads take twists and turns and that is okay.

Anything posted his fair game for comments.
Doesn't bother me in the least.

On 004, I realize he doesn't have any daughters in production, but his pedigree should tell the story of good females. That's why we register cattle, so we don't have to just guess at what we are doing. This way we can use the SWAG system.*




*Scientific Wild Ass Guess
 
Faster horses said:
I don't know if you would call it "hijacking" , but many of these threads take twists and turns and that is okay.

Anything posted his fair game for comments.
Doesn't bother me in the least.

On 004, I realize he doesn't have any daughters in production, but his pedigree should tell the story of good females. That's why we register cattle, so we don't have to just guess at what we are doing. This way we can use the SWAG system.*




*Scientific Wild Ass Guess
Click to expand...
I have never been one to make bulls be "proven" before I use one. If I can trust the breeder, like the bulls actual data and most importantly like a bulls phenotype I won't miss many. If there was anything I didnt' like about 004 it was his feet. He was a little too open toed (if that makes since) but his foot was pretty big. I would probably make his shoulder a little flatter if I could but a little shoulder is to be expected with a thick bull. I could be wrong on his size. I'll look closer next time. All in all I would use him and fescue is a harsh environment . It puts a fever in cows when lush and is a washy grass that takes lots of it to do any good.
 
Yes we register cattle so we can keep track of what is good and what is bad but cattle breed like a bell shaped curve and we don't always get what we think we should.

As far as hijacking my thread goes have at it. I've learned more when things go a different turn than when one sticks to the same boring thread.
 
Well, I am a registered Angus breeder and I have used 878 more than any other bull for the past 3 years. I am happy with the calves. I have some of the females in production now. I haven't had any structural problems, udders are fine they breed back ok ( A.I. ). They are mostly around a 5.5 frame with pretty good muscle and body depth. I have also used 6I6 some and would give away the few straws of semen I have left. I just can't get a bull or heifer that I would keep out of him, and I hear a lot of guys bragging about him. That's my two cents worth.

efb
 

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