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New Holland 664

D

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,802
Location
NE Saskatchewan
As I mentioned in a previous post, I broke down and bought a NH 664 is very nice condition. We're not off to a grand start though.

I hooked up to my Massey 1135 and found I could only open the end gate about half way, before it would stop. I tried different remote connections, and looked for leaks on the baler, but found no leaks and it didn't matter which set of hydraulics I used. As I turned down the bale pressure, the end gate would open further, until finally at 1000 PSI bale pressure, the end gate would open all the way.

So I dragged my old JD4020 over to the baler, hooked it up, and the end gate would raise no matter what bale pressure you were set at. Ditto my old 930 Case. But my Massey 1130 wouldn't open the end gate either.

So I borrowed a neighbors hydraulic test gauge, and tested the pressure on each of the tractors (except the 930). The 1135 had 2600 PSI of hydraulic pressure, which is max pressure that pump is capable of. The 1130 only had 1900 PSI, and I knew it was tired. The 4020 had 2100 PSI of pressure, and I know the 930 is only capable of around 1900 PSI.

After all this tractor swapping, I hooked the 1135 back up, and the end gate lifted without any trouble. It does appear to lift more slowly than I recall the NH end gate lifting. It takes about 10 seconds to lift wide open. Does this seem about right?

So any ideas? I'm completely stumped. About the only thing I can think of is air in the lift system on the baler, which swapping over to the 4020 eliminated. I can't really understand the 1130 not lifiting, since it would have the same pressure (or greater) than the 930.

Thanks in advance for any advice or help.

Rod
 
It could be air in the lines, mine was a bugger this year to open the first time. I could connect the lines properly, but the one was pressured up and wouldn't allow flow. I took the line off and banged the ball valve in the quick coupler to relieve the pressure then it was fine.

The other problem is connector compatability. Some older pioneer couplers aren't full flow.
 
Had the same problem with a swather I bought. Put the header on and one side of the reel wouldn't pick up, when you lifted it manually while some one was trying to raise it with the hydraulics, it wouldn't come all the way down. opened the connection a little & bled the air out, and it worked great. It is a double swath header and one side wouldn't rotate. Did the same thing there. Bled the air from the line & it worked great.
good luck.
 
Rod - I have the exact same thing with my MF1105 and NH648 baler when I hook it up after not using it for a while. It seems that the hydraulics are slow for a few minutes - like it needs to warm up a bit first. As you likely know, those series of MF's have an automatic hydraulic pressure dumping valve that only kicks in once the engine is running, in order to allow for easier starts. I wonder if that valve isn't setting in properly when we have that initial lifting problem. I don't remember it ever doing it after I've made a bale or two at the most.

Heck, don't worry about it. You can probably fix it easily by parking a new Massey in front of that baler!

Yeah, right.
 
Thanks for the info, y'all. I suspected air infiltration into the system, and given its lifting just fine now, I should be ok. I may pull those rams off after haying season and rebuild them.

MLA, as far as the pressure bypass, I don't think thats causing me trouble, as the endgate would lift part way, then stop. Plus this tractor was running the haybine and the M&W (before it destructed), so the valve shouldn't be sticking, unless there is something in that baler that causes it to trigger.

Maple Leaf Angus said:
Heck, don't worry about it. You can probably fix it easily by parking a new Massey in front of that baler!
Click to expand...

:lol: I wish. 7 years ago, I had a deal worked out with the local Massey dealership on a used 120 HP Massey FWA with an 807 Leon. The 4020 and $6000 for the FWA. Unfortunately, the 4020 is Dad's and he refused to let it leave the yard :( Everytime he complains about having to pull the 1130 out when I'm stuck feeding cattle, I remind him of that idiotic decision. I know the guy who bought the FWA. He's used it every single day since he bought it, and hasn't had to fix a thing on it.

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Thanks for the info, y'all. I suspected air infiltration into the system, and given its lifting just fine now, I should be ok. I may pull those rams off after haying season and rebuild them.

MLA, as far as the pressure bypass, I don't think thats causing me trouble, as the endgate would lift part way, then stop. Plus this tractor was running the haybine and the M&W (before it destructed), so the valve shouldn't be sticking, unless there is something in that baler that causes it to trigger.

Maple Leaf Angus said:
Heck, don't worry about it. You can probably fix it easily by parking a new Massey in front of that baler!
Click to expand...

:lol: I wish. 7 years ago, I had a deal worked out with the local Massey dealership on a used 120 HP Massey FWA with an 807 Leon. The 4020 and $6000 for the FWA. Unfortunately, the 4020 is Dad's and he refused to let it leave the yard :( Everytime he complains about having to pull the 1130 out when I'm stuck feeding cattle, I remind him of that idiotic decision. I know the guy who bought the FWA. He's used it every single day since he bought it, and hasn't had to fix a thing on it.

Rod
Click to expand...
Back to the Cummings for a moment as I have been away for a while.
Rod I apologize for having to ask you this question (which you've probably already answered somewhere) but what did you say the lift pump was on the Cummings engine? I just recently bought a one owner '98 Dodge 3/4 ton p/u with 150,000 miles on it. I gave $12,000 for it. I kinda wanted to know what to look for in case of any problems. I remember in some earlier postings you saying something about air leaks and the lift pump. BTW about the only thing I can tell is wrong with this one is the steering feels like it has maybe a hard spot with a little more slack than I would like-but nothing I don't believe to be concerned about at this point. Also do you think the Rotella T is good enough or would I be better off going to a synthetic such as Mobil or Valvoline. One thing i did get out of your earlier posts is the fact tha I won't be shutting the engine off on short trips, I will always let it get to normal temperature before shutting the engine off. Also I don't plan to make many of those short trips, either. TIA
 
TSR, is your '98 a 12 valve or a 24 valve? The badge on the side of the truck will say if its a 24V. If its a 12V, don't worry about the lift pump. They had a mechanical that very rarely gave trouble.

The 24 valve had an electric pump that had some troubles due to the design of the fuel system AFTER the pump. If you look down past the fuel filter housing, you'll see a small electric pump down there. On your fuel filter housing cap, you'll have a couple ports for testing fuel pressure. Get ahold of a 20 PSI gauge, or have a mechanic test pre and post pressures on the ports (there are both, the one closest to the front is post filter pressure). There is some difference on opinion as to what the pressure should be at idle, but I won't let it drop below 11 PSI at idle, and 7 PSI under wide open throttle conditions.

If you see lower than those pressures, get the lift pump replaced. Its not long for this world, and if it gives up the ghost when towing heavy, it'll cause rapid damage to the injection pump, which you don't wanna fix. To help cure the lift pump problems, Geno's Garage (www.genosgarage.com) sells high flow banjo bolts. Replace the ones on the pump (2) and the ones on the fuel filter canister (2). If you have a 2000 and up, you'll also need to replace the banjo bolt on the injection pump. We found that replacing these bolts gave us 2 - 3 times the lift pump life, and in some cases, even more.

On the oil side, Rotella T is a good oil. I personally won't use anything but full synthetics. I hate doing oil changes, and full synthetics give you 2 - 3 times the operating hours. Plus they have a higher flash point, so hot shut downs aren't as much of an issue. In Canada, I don't think there is a better synthetic oil than the PetroCanada full synthetic.

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
TSR, is your '98 a 12 valve or a 24 valve? The badge on the side of the truck will say if its a 24V. If its a 12V, don't worry about the lift pump. They had a mechanical that very rarely gave trouble.

The 24 valve had an electric pump that had some troubles due to the design of the fuel system AFTER the pump. If you look down past the fuel filter housing, you'll see a small electric pump down there. On your fuel filter housing cap, you'll have a couple ports for testing fuel pressure. Get ahold of a 20 PSI gauge, or have a mechanic test pre and post pressures on the ports (there are both, the one closest to the front is post filter pressure). There is some difference on opinion as to what the pressure should be at idle, but I won't let it drop below 11 PSI at idle, and 7 PSI under wide open throttle conditions.

If you see lower than those pressures, get the lift pump replaced. Its not long for this world, and if it gives up the ghost when towing heavy, it'll cause rapid damage to the injection pump, which you don't wanna fix. To help cure the lift pump problems, Geno's Garage (www.genosgarage.com) sells high flow banjo bolts. Replace the ones on the pump (2) and the ones on the fuel filter canister (2). If you have a 2000 and up, you'll also need to replace the banjo bolt on the injection pump. We found that replacing these bolts gave us 2 - 3 times the lift pump life, and in some cases, even more.

On the oil side, Rotella T is a good oil. I personally won't use anything but full synthetics. I hate doing oil changes, and full synthetics give you 2 - 3 times the operating hours. Plus they have a higher flash point, so hot shut downs aren't as much of an issue. In Canada, I don't think there is a better synthetic oil than the PetroCanada full synthetic.

Rod
Click to expand...

Thanks Rod. I believe mine is a 12v engine. I think I will probably go to a full synthetic oil in the future even though the engine has 150,000 on it, probably Valvoline full synthetic 15/40. I have never seen any Petro Canada around here. Thanks again.
 

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