No more PowerStroke, at least not from Navistar

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Ford, Navistar settle engine dispute, end contract
Engine maker will stop supplying Ford at year's end

Automotive News | January 14, 2009 - 9:00 am EST

CHICAGO (Reuters) -- Ford Motor Co. and Navistar International Corp.,
which have been locked in a dispute over a diesel engine supply contract
for several years, said on Tuesday they had reached a settlement that
brings the legal fight to an end and effectively dissolves a 30-year
partnership.

In a joint statement, the two companies said they had reached an
agreement to "restructure their ongoing business relationship and settle
all existing litigation between the companies."

Navistar is the parent of International Truck & Engine Corp.

They said Navistar's current contract to supply diesel engines to Ford
would not continue beyond year's end, ending a relationship between the
two companies that began in 1979 but broke down in recent years over the
development of a next-generation for Ford's F-150 pickup trucks, a
top-selling vehicle in the U.S. market.

The current diesel engine supply contract, the one dating back to 1979,
will end effective December 31, 2009.

As a result of the settlement, Ford will make an undisclosed payment to
Navistar.

Ford and Navistar said they would continue their diesel engine supply
relationship in South America.

Navistar had claimed in its lawsuit that Ford planned to produce a
4.4-liter diesel engine for the F-150 on its own, a move that it said
violates the contract with Navistar. The suburban Chicago company
claimed it had spent millions of millions of dollars to develop a
next-generation diesel engine for Ford code-named "Lion" for use in the
pickup trucks and other vehicles and sought hundreds of millions of
dollars in damages from the automaker.

Separately, the two sides had sued each other over pricing and warranty
claims related to the current run of diesel engines Navistar has
supplied for Ford's F-Series trucks.

Under the settlement announced Tuesday, Ford and Navistar said they
would continue to collaborate on a number of fronts, they said,
including their Blue Diamond Truck joint venture, a partnership
announced back in 2001 that builds medium duty commercial trucks and
supplies truck and diesel engine parts to dealers.

Navistar ranks No. 52 on the Automotive News list of the top 100 global
suppliers with estimated worldwide sales to automakers of $3.30 billion
in 2007.

 

[gcreekrch]

Wasn't there something back a few years about Ford putting Cat engines in their trucks?
Can't say as I will miss the Powerstroke, they have always been hard on fuel. Hopefully the next one will be an improvement.

 

[Aaron]

Nothing new. CAT is finished making motors for everything after this year. They can't keep up on the emissions standards. The 6L and 6.4L were abominations, but the 7.3 was good on fuel. I easily get 19-20mpg.

All new diesels nowadays are horrendous on fuel, no matter what make. Emission standards and diesels don't mix. The next diesel after the 6.4 for Ford will be an in-house 6.7L diesel code-named Scorpion.

 

[gcreekrch]

Nothing new. CAT is finished making motors for everything after this year. They can't keep up on the emissions standards. The 6L and 6.4L were abominations, but the 7.3 was good on fuel. I easily get 19-20mpg.

All new diesels nowadays are horrendous on fuel, no matter what make. Emission standards and diesels don't mix. The next diesel after the 6.4 for Ford will be an in-house 6.7L diesel code-named Scorpion.

You won't get that kind of milage loaded.
I've had an '87 6.9, two 7.3's, and one 7.3 turbo. They all got an average of about 8-10 mpg loaded, no matter what vehicle they were in.
My 550 is the worst but mainly because of the diff ratio.
The next one will be something different than Ford.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

That old Cat rumors been around for years. Unfortunately the rumor mongers never take the time to look at Cat's website: Cat doesn't have a diesel that would fit into a pickup truck

I did hear a _slightly_ more credible rumor that Cat was developing a smaller light truck diesel, although I'm not sure why they'd bother. Dodge has Cummins, Ford went back to in-house, Chevy's mated to IscrewU, and Toy, when they bring out a diesel, will run with Hino.

Rod

 

[Broke Cowboy]

That old Cat rumors been around for years. Unfortunately the rumor mongers never take the time to look at Cat's website: Cat doesn't have a diesel that would fit into a pickup truck

I did hear a _slightly_ more credible rumor that Cat was developing a smaller light truck diesel, although I'm not sure why they'd bother. Dodge has Cummins, Ford went back to in-house, Chevy's mated to IscrewU, and Toy, when they bring out a diesel, will run with Hino.

Rod

I am going to have to lift the lid on the Toyota trucks and Jeeps we run over here - they are all diesel - we beat the living snot out of them in all kinds of rather horrendous conditions and they keep on ticking.

I have no idea who makes the engines (maybe Toyota?) and until this very minute did not give a damn. Now I am curious.

They are all 4WD and 5 speed standard transmissions.

I have to admit - as a northern Canuck - I have been impressed with them - deep snow - minus 30 C - deep mud - plus 52 C - they run like tops.

Throw chains on all four tires and pretty much nothing except land mines and IEDs stops them.

Cheers

BC

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

It'll depend on the year, but the Jeep should be a Cummins and the Toy should be a Hino. Toy's owned Hino for many moons...

Rod

 

[BudE]

Just drove 2150 miles with a 2008 6.4 pulling a trailer to Denver and back. Got a whopping 8.5 mpg, $608 in fuel. My 2000 7.3 will get 15 mpg loaded and 18 running around but it is chipped.

 

[Aaron]

Just drove 2150 miles with a 2008 6.4 pulling a trailer to Denver and back. Got a whopping 8.5 mpg, $608 in fuel. My 2000 7.3 will get 15 mpg loaded and 18 running around but it is chipped.

That sounds about right for the 6.4. My 7.3 gets 14 mpg loaded.

 

[Soapweed]

My main trailer pulling pickup is a 1997 Ford F350 Crewcab 4x4 powerstroke 7.3 diesel. I bought it new in January of 1998, and it now has 168,400 miles on it. Today the wind was 40 mph out of the northwest. I pulled a 24' Titan steel horse trailer down the highway against the wind for twenty-six miles. The load wasn't heavy, but there was still a 700 pound heifer calf, 2 coming-two-year old open heifers that weighed 1050 pounds each, and a horse with a saddle which probably weighed another 1300 pounds. The pickup has a five-speed manual transmission, and I went 70 mph all the way in fifth gear. This ol' Ford has it all over my two one-ton Dodges when it comes to pulling power and speed. It's a good outfit, and the best pickup I've ever owned. It is a sad day if this engine is no longer available on a Ford.

 

[Aaron]

That old Cat rumors been around for years. Unfortunately the rumor mongers never take the time to look at Cat's website: Cat doesn't have a diesel that would fit into a pickup truck

I did hear a _slightly_ more credible rumor that Cat was developing a smaller light truck diesel, although I'm not sure why they'd bother. Dodge has Cummins, Ford went back to in-house, Chevy's mated to IscrewU, and Toy, when they bring out a diesel, will run with Hino.

Rod

Yeah, it's been mentioned for years Rod, but the "rumour" is true. You call it a rumour, I've always referred to it as a known truth that has been known for about almost a decade.

CAT won't put a small diesel in a light truck either. CAT was questioned about that years ago and their opinion was that their wasn't enough profit to be made in that market.

But don't believe me....

Caterpillar in talks with Navistar to develop 15-liter truck engine

Dow Jones News Wires reports that Caterpillar and Navistar, the maker of a raft of heavy-duty trucks, are collaborating on a way-big truck engine (three times of the displacement of a hot-rod Mustang with 5.0-liter engine).

Navistar has been seeking a supplier for the large engines amid moves by its existing suppliers - including Caterpillar - to leave the sector or switch emissions technology.

Caterpillar plans to supply the 15-liter engine under Navistar's MaxxForce brand by late 2010, according to the sources.

The heavy-equipment maker has said it plans to quit making engines for the U.S. truck market in 2010 to avoid the cost of complying with new domestic emissions standards. However, Caterpillar, Peoria, Ill., could license its existing large engine for Navistar to produce, or opt to continue making power trains under the Navistar brand.

Both companies declined to comment.

The joint venture, part of a broader truck alliance announced in mid-2008, would allow Navistar to build out its MaxxForce line of medium and heavy-duty engines without the expense of developing a 15-liter unit from scratch.

The pending deal would reduce Navistar's reliance on Cummins Inc. (CMI), which also supplies the truck maker with 15-liter engines.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

<chuckle> Things are so messed up these days. I knew that Navistar was building Cummins licensed stuff. And Cummins/Cat have teamed up to deliver engine/powertrains for years now.

I hadn't heard about Cat/Navistar, although I'm not really sure what each would get out of it. Neither company has a 2010 emissions compliant engine.

I do find it odd that neither Cat nor Navistar has been able to build a high HP emissions compliant engine while guys like Cummins, Detroit and Volvo have had 600HP 2010 engines for a couple years. Cat had better start looking at emission compliancy, as industrial equipment will be next on the greenies list. Can you imagine the Cat fans turning over in their graves with the sight of a Cummins QSX15 in a D8? lol

Soap: Your good ol' 7.3 hasn't been available for years now. The 6.0L and 6.4L are mere shadows of a formerly good diesel. Although, if that 7.3 can outpull your 1 ton Dodges, you'd best let me have a look at those Dodges

Rod