AngusCowBoy
Well-known member
What are most the cows from these bloodlines like as far as size and how big of calves do they wean off. What are some of the differences of the two.
OCC and Cole Creek Angus
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Got SimAngus bulls out of Simmental cow and sired by OCC Legend, they are easy keeping, moderate framed, and usually weigh around 625 to 650 for 205 day wt. Daughters are awesome. I think OCC has a good balance between moderate frame easy keeping but still great performance. If i remember right the carcass data on my legend bulls were good to.
A
Anonymous
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OK- here is my take on the two-----Cole Creek is centered mainly around the old Juanda bloodlines- while OCC is more centered around the Rito 707/6807 bloodlines... Both herds are linebred to some extent- but also have used outside influences (Cole Creek has quite a bit of Shoshone and old Cedar Hills influence)... Tim Ohlde has commented how well the two programs bloodlines complement each other- which my experience with both has shown..
The Cole Creek cattle were developed under tougher enviromental and management practices... They have great udders and feet- and are mild dispositioned... Their program is centered around raising a good mother cow and culls heavily for any problems...
Both herds are moderate framed- altho the OCC are usually smaller in frame size altho generally heavier in depth and thickness thruout the body... In general OCC offers cattle that can reduce frame faster than Cole Creek...The Cole Creek mature cows run in the 1100-1300 lb range..
Both herds have been developed around the principal of being efficient grassland cattle... As far as calf size/weight much of it depends on the enviroment and grass/feed available...We have Cole Creek cows that we bought that were raised in a rougher and droughted enviroment that didn't weigh 500-550 at weaning--- but when brought to our enviroment with the last several years of good grass we've had, have brought in bull calves near 700lbs and heifer calves over 600...
To me that shows they have the genetics to convert grass to pounds- if the grass/feed is there....
The Cole Creek cattle were developed under tougher enviromental and management practices... They have great udders and feet- and are mild dispositioned... Their program is centered around raising a good mother cow and culls heavily for any problems...
Both herds are moderate framed- altho the OCC are usually smaller in frame size altho generally heavier in depth and thickness thruout the body... In general OCC offers cattle that can reduce frame faster than Cole Creek...The Cole Creek mature cows run in the 1100-1300 lb range..
Both herds have been developed around the principal of being efficient grassland cattle... As far as calf size/weight much of it depends on the enviroment and grass/feed available...We have Cole Creek cows that we bought that were raised in a rougher and droughted enviroment that didn't weigh 500-550 at weaning--- but when brought to our enviroment with the last several years of good grass we've had, have brought in bull calves near 700lbs and heifer calves over 600...
To me that shows they have the genetics to convert grass to pounds- if the grass/feed is there....
AX-
Well-known member
That was a good analysis Oldtimer. OCC cattle will be small framed and wide, deep cattle. I think they will change type of flat sided cattle faster than any other. The ones I've seen have excellent udders. I think that if you feed heavy, the OCC cattle could get too fat and have reduced fertility.
The Cole Creek cattle I have aren't in the same league for fleshing ability, which may or may not be a good thing. They are supposed to be very fertile and long lasting. I've had disposition problems with Black Angus and I must admit that the Cole Creek heifers are probably better dispositioned than my Red Angus. I've never seen that in any Blacks. Time will tell, but I feel both breeders run their cattle tough, though the Montana environment is much tougher than the Northern Kansas environment. Both breeders are as honest as they come from my experience. I shouldn't talk up Greg's cattle too much, I hope to afford a few more this spring.
The Cole Creek cattle I have aren't in the same league for fleshing ability, which may or may not be a good thing. They are supposed to be very fertile and long lasting. I've had disposition problems with Black Angus and I must admit that the Cole Creek heifers are probably better dispositioned than my Red Angus. I've never seen that in any Blacks. Time will tell, but I feel both breeders run their cattle tough, though the Montana environment is much tougher than the Northern Kansas environment. Both breeders are as honest as they come from my experience. I shouldn't talk up Greg's cattle too much, I hope to afford a few more this spring.
I'll weigh in here we've used OCC Hunter OCC HOMER and OCC Echelon I sold the echelon calves right off the cow they were puds, OCC Homer make's good enough cows with adequate frame and nice udders. OCC Hunter is a changer bull for us we used him on some 6 frame slab sided cows the resulting daughters are 4 frame VERY VERY easy fleshy and for my cattle the way their ran we can tell the differance if you feed top quality forage I would be careful as they will get obese very easy. The one thing I don't like about them is they lack stretch in spine lenght they seem a bit short that way. But if your making cows that need to thrive to survive I'd use OCC Hunter.
I used OCC Prototype last year and just got the first calf out of a Sinclair Extra 4X13 daughter. Prototype is a Double muscle carrier and his papers were cancelled I believe so I've got a few commercial calves coming from him.
all after the fact
Sinclair Extra will make the same type of cattle easy fleshing great EXT type udders without the EXT attitude not bad for being line bred ext.
A friend of mine has Been to Ohldes and those cattle don't struggle for forage as some would like you to believe. Now Cole Creek I here they are ran tough.
I used OCC Prototype last year and just got the first calf out of a Sinclair Extra 4X13 daughter. Prototype is a Double muscle carrier and his papers were cancelled I believe so I've got a few commercial calves coming from him.
all after the factSinclair Extra will make the same type of cattle easy fleshing great EXT type udders without the EXT attitude not bad for being line bred ext.
A friend of mine has Been to Ohldes and those cattle don't struggle for forage as some would like you to believe. Now Cole Creek I here they are ran tough.
badroute
Well-known member
I have a little experience with OCC genetics but I've never used Cole Creek stuff. I have used some Shoshone genetics from a couple different breeders in Montana. Let's just say I had to use the OCC blood to put some fleshing ability back in my herd after I was done with the Shoshone experment.
Now this is just my experience so dont take it to heart too much. I will say that anymore I would use some of the growthier OCC sires such as Juneau or Missing Link that have a little more milk. Some of the "changer" bulls seem to stall out and leave a guy a little short on pounds in the fall.
Now this is just my experience so dont take it to heart too much. I will say that anymore I would use some of the growthier OCC sires such as Juneau or Missing Link that have a little more milk. Some of the "changer" bulls seem to stall out and leave a guy a little short on pounds in the fall.
AX-
Well-known member
Here is a OCC Unforgiven x WCC Special Design L309 x Traveler 044 that we raised
Here is his sire - OCC Unforgiven
Here is his sire - OCC Unforgiven
sic 'em reds
Well-known member
I think both programs have it figured out real well for their environment, but I don't think they hold the golden key for everything. Not saying one bit that they don't run good cattle, but I would venture to say in the right circle of people, that they would say SAV holds the golden key.
Alot of the characteristics that these two herds can be found in alot of no name herds that people never hear of. If the environment/grass is right and a person is paying attention to his cattle, he could have the same things these programs have going.
Alot of the characteristics that these two herds can be found in alot of no name herds that people never hear of. If the environment/grass is right and a person is paying attention to his cattle, he could have the same things these programs have going.
A
Anonymous
Guest
AX- said:
Yep- thats what I was just thinking.. :wink: I just got Gregs catalog last week- and my son has just been sitting there drooling over it...He has already picked out some heifers he would love to have.. But I would rather he has a love for good cows over motorcyles or something like that..
And if I needed a bull this year I would be looking at the 103 bull or the 106- altho I think 106 will be priced way out of what I will spend on a bull...
I just had a Juanada Lad 81T X Basin Max 104J daughter drop an 81 lb bull calf this morning- and a whole bunch more looking like they could any minute- so I guess I am officially calving... I will have to DNA them to find out which bull is throwing the short gestation time....
Your bulls look good Brian...
Anguscowboy- or anyone-- if you have access to a Cole Creek catalog, I would suggest you get ahold of it- as its worth it for just the reading of some of Greg Goldens philosophy on raising good maternal grassland efficient cattle after their over 50 years in the cattle business... (this will be their 36th annual production sale on March 26th)
Faster horses
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I had a lady friend who was in the hospital having her son when
Mrs. Golden was having a baby, too. I think that baby was Greg.
My friend named her son, Cole--and when he grew up he built a cow
herd around the Cole Creek cattle and they were good ones. He
runs in some rougher country in Wyoming and I saw the cattle in '08 and
you had to like them. He bought heifers from Cole Creek at their
sale for a long, long time.
The OCC cattle (wonderful looking cows) aren't run in neatly as tough
country as Cole Creek and one concern with OCC is fertility. That
was the hole in 6807. No bull is perfect and that's what kept him
from being nearly perfect...FWIW...
I also saw some cattle from commercial breeder in ND that had AI'd
to 6807 and Traveller 71, exclusively. You could walk in that bunch
of cattle and pick out which was which by eyeball. Interesting that the
Traveller 71's did stay in the herd. They sure weren't much to look
at compared to the 6807's. Much harder-doing cattle, but according
the rancher who raised them in some tough country, they did work.
Those two bulls were the basis of his whole herd.
Mrs. Golden was having a baby, too. I think that baby was Greg.
My friend named her son, Cole--and when he grew up he built a cow
herd around the Cole Creek cattle and they were good ones. He
runs in some rougher country in Wyoming and I saw the cattle in '08 and
you had to like them. He bought heifers from Cole Creek at their
sale for a long, long time.
The OCC cattle (wonderful looking cows) aren't run in neatly as tough
country as Cole Creek and one concern with OCC is fertility. That
was the hole in 6807. No bull is perfect and that's what kept him
from being nearly perfect...FWIW...
I also saw some cattle from commercial breeder in ND that had AI'd
to 6807 and Traveller 71, exclusively. You could walk in that bunch
of cattle and pick out which was which by eyeball. Interesting that the
Traveller 71's did stay in the herd. They sure weren't much to look
at compared to the 6807's. Much harder-doing cattle, but according
the rancher who raised them in some tough country, they did work.
Those two bulls were the basis of his whole herd.
