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One less mountain lion in Harding County

Happy, you are just too much!! Explain to me how either the state or the federal government "controls" wildlife. All they even attempt to control are the folks who raise the wildlife for them.

By setting seasons and allow more tools to be used to hunt with. Allow more licenses to be purchased and doe license at a reduced cost. It does work and can give you states where it has done the job. The problem being is alot of people are into pay hunting and then the other end is I didn't have a succesful hunt unless I bring home the big 20 pointer! You put these 2 aspects together coupled with mild winters and you have a tough deal. Also hunting access is getting worse all the time and if people think they have deer,antelope issues now wait for another 5-10 years!

LB give me a dollar amount of actual loss caused on your ranch last year by ungulates? Tell me how much the deer and antelope cost you? Give tons to the acre of grass they took off your property? The wildife has been there long before you or I correct? I have an idea because we have ample deer across the US why don't each and every state pay everyone who hits a deer with there vehicle then? We can do it by increasing state or federal or both taxes? Sound like a good plan? After all it is the states deer correct? Lets all get our just share back because bambi hit our car! What do you suppose would happen with taxes?

How much of the landowners' resources, i.e. grass, hay, corn piles, vehicles and fences are damaged and wasted by the public's wildlife? None of these lost resources are paid for out of public funds.

Wrong LB the hunters of your state help foot that bill! Stackyards,fencing,food plots to help lessen your problems, actually bringing out corn or hay to help with loss there all funded through the hunters of your state look it up on the internet. Depredation pools of hunters who will come out and shoot deer in the winter again to help you out LB.

So… if I answer your loony questions wrong, you'll be coming to take me away?

NO way! Just wanted you to be aware of I know the in's and outs of your lion issues and I don't want the truth stretched. I asked simply what about the lion issue has been dealt wrong to you? How are you handicapped on this issue?

Anybody, with the exception of idiots like you, can see what the publicly owned wildlife, including predators introduced and protected by the feds, do to damage our financial bottom line.
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LB the wolves are not a new species they have been there for many years and the population bolstered. I agree on some issues but you must read the ESA and you will find out how and why the wolves had to be given a chance. Yes it effects your bottom line I have no doubt with the coyotes, I have seen the damage LB not a city slicker. Again the wildlife has been here long before you and I. Game depts do a great job and work well with most people outside of the raticals and I think it is threw generational conditioning that alot of this takes place. Grandpa hated the Game Dept well then so do I.
 
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I have zero problem with killing cats that are causing damage in your area if their a threat to you or your livestock dump them. The problem is your never going to have larger numbers of cats in that environment and your prairie season proved that out with not 1 single wild lion shot, with all the deer hunters, pheasant hunters, coyote callers, and ranchers/farmers you would have thought if the population of mt lions had ant worry that their surely could have been 1 wild cat harvested out there?
:wink: :wink: Trust me there's been more one thats been taken care of outside of the Black Hills. You do understand that on the priaire riverbreaks you can go for miles along the many brushy creeks and draws for hours without seeing another person. There are winter pastures and summer pastures that may only be used a few months out of the year. And when a rancher finds a dead yearling or a tore up cow or horse a local posse is formed. And the problem is taken care of. ( So I've heard) Welcome to the rez. GFP havn't much authority here. :wink: :wink: :wink:
 
empty pockets wrote: You do understand that on the priaire riverbreaks you can go for miles along the many brushy creeks and draws for hours without seeing another person. There are winter pastures and summer pastures that may only be used a few months out of the year. And when a rancher finds a dead yearling or a tore up cow or horse a local posse is formed. And the problem is taken care of. ( So I've heard) Welcome to the rez. GFP havn't much authority here.

I have no doubt about that empty pockets and I'm sure in the breaks the lions travel through there and I have heard of these sitings in "rough country" again everyone asumes I'm a city guy LOL! The problem I have with your theory is this yearling cattle and horses in rough country don't get looked at everyday, alot probably 1 time per week and when you find that lion kill what do you suppose the distance traveled by that lion could be? I know men with great lions hounds and a 2 day old track is a shot in the dark, or looking for a needle in a haystack approach. You want that track so fresh it smells of lion, you deal with tracks or sightings of lions in hours not days to garner good results or a very high lion density in an area. So while I'm sure the posse is formed the idea of this method being one that has any creditable use for taking out a Mt Lion that has caused depredation is one, Well lets say don't go into the lion guiding business.
 
By setting seasons and allow more tools to be used to hunt with. Allow more licenses to be purchased and doe license at a reduced cost. It does work and can give you states where it has done the job.
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Yes, give me the states where game and fish have actually controlled wildlife to a level where game and predators aren't adversely affecting private landowners. And I want the statistics and a link to check your facts too. Frankly, I don't believe a word of this.

LB give me a dollar amount of actual loss caused on your ranch last year by ungulates? Tell me how much the deer and antelope cost you? Give tons to the acre of grass they took off your property?
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Why? What difference does it make to you what each individual landowner has lost? Are you going to send me your share of the pasture and damage bill YOUR wildlife has cost me? That'll be nice.

The wildife has been there long before you or I correct?
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Most of the wildlife was here before you and I were, but a heck of a lot of it is here because of folks like my grandparents and the other pioneers in this area helped save the antelope and buffalo from extinction. Ever heard of the Antelope Range Station in Harding County or Scotty Philips?

It wasn't landowners who re-introduced wolves to the neighborhood. Did you?

I have an idea because we have ample deer across the US why don't each and every state pay everyone who hits a deer with there vehicle then? We can do it by increasing state or federal or both taxes? Sound like a good plan? After all it is the states deer correct? Lets all get our just share back because bambi hit our car! What do you suppose would happen with taxes?
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Why don't we just use some of that license money and the tax dollars that go to GF&P to pay for the damage caused by the public's wildlife? GF&P would probably have to quit buying up private land since the money needed to pay damages would hopefully take care of the dollars they use to compete with private landowners in the real estate market. That would be a definite plus for the free enterprise system!!

Wrong LB the hunters of your state help foot that bill! Stackyards,fencing,food plots to help lessen your problems, actually bringing out corn or hay to help with loss there all funded through the hunters of your state look it up on the internet.
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I don't need to "look it up on the internet". I have first hand knowledge of the subject. GF&P has never given us anything to help with depredation, to pay a pasture bill, to replace feed ruined by deer, or to repair a damaged vehicle.

YOU look it up.

Depredation pools of hunters who will come out and shoot deer in the winter again to help you out LB.
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Not here they won't! GF&P insists they have the right to violate my property rights to check hunters on my land and until that is changed there will be no hunters on our ranch or on thousands of other landowners in South Dakota. It's the principle of the thing. Try to get that through your head.

LB the wolves are not a new species they have been there for many years and the population bolstered.
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Bolstered? Is that what you call it when USFW bought Canadian wolves at $250,000 each and dumped them in the Yellowstone, ignoring the protests of surrounding communities? The only thing bolstered in this instance was the Canadian government's coffers.

I agree on some issues but you must read the ESA and you will find out how and why the wolves had to be given a chance.
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I've read the ESA and I found nothing in it that explains why "wolves had to be given a chance". Cite those passages for us here, will you? I evidently missed it.

Folks in this area worked long and hard to get rid of wolves that cost them what would amount to millions of dollars today. Wolves have never been either threatened or endangered in this country. Northern Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin and North Dakota were overrun with them and that has only gotten worse. And don't forget all the wolves in Alaska and Canada…

Yes it effects your bottom line I have no doubt with the coyotes, I have seen the damage LB not a city slicker. Again the wildlife has been here long before you and I. Game depts do a great job and work well with most people outside of the raticals and I think it is threw generational conditioning that alot of this takes place. Grandpa hated the Game Dept well then so do I.
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I guess I must qualify as one of those radicals, huh?

Not a city slicker? Really?

I'll ask again – what branch of game and fish do you work for? Federal or state?
 
Yes, give me the states where game and fish have actually controlled wildlife to a level where game and predators aren't adversely affecting private landowners. And I want the statistics and a link to check your facts too. Frankly, I don't believe a word of this.

Go to the Iowa DNR web page or better yet call the head of wildlife division Dale Gamer at 515/281-5918 and ask him if the deer numbers in the state are being held or reduced with proper licensing and hunters doing the job, start their and I'll give you more places to contact after that one.

Why? What difference does it make to you what each individual landowner has lost? Are you going to send me your share of the pasture and damage bill YOUR wildlife has cost me? That'll be nice.

No, so we can debate true facts and not rely on mistruth or false stats. Give me a ball park of your avg yearly loss that will be fine.

Why don't we just use some of that license money and the tax dollars that go to GF&P to pay for the damage caused by the public's wildlife? GF&P would probably have to quit buying up private land since the money needed to pay damages would hopefully take care of the dollars they use to compete with private landowners in the real estate market. That would be a definite plus for the free enterprise system!!

Tax dollars could you explain the tax dollars that go to your state Game commison? I look and see that they are one of the most self supporting in the US. Also if it is all public wildlife then you and I should share in the burden along with every other tax payer! Not the Game commison in any states sole property, just looked after by them for the good of the general public, so lets all chip in with our tax dollars and we will pay back everyone who has any kind of wildlife damage with monatary returns sound good?
Is your G,F,&P buying up these land tracts at more than the avg market price? How much land are they buying up state wide?

I don't need to "look it up on the internet". I have first hand knowledge of the subject. GF&P has never given us anything to help with depredation, to pay a pasture bill, to replace feed ruined by deer, or to repair a damaged vehicle

The big question LB have you ever gotten over your pride and asked for help only to be turned down? Yes or No?

Not here they won't! GF&P insists they have the right to violate my property rights to check hunters on my land and until that is changed there will be no hunters on our ranch or on thousands of other landowners in South Dakota. It's the principle of the thing. Try to get that through your head

I can understand that, but do you have something to hide? Also probable cause is a very loose definition LB and even if you had it your way, they could still arrest those that are breaking the law. Think about the situations for a moment, if they want deer hunters and other hunting how many people would be turned off to leave residences only to be stopped by the CO's and labled as badgering? Allow them the access and carry on a dialog with not only you and your family but the sportsman in the field, way less intrusive that way than to set up road blocks and the such, plus much more cost effective for a state and lends towards good PR.

Wolves have never been either threatened or endangered in this country. Northern Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin and North Dakota were overrun with them and that has only gotten worse. And don't forget all the wolves in Alaska and Canada…

Yes they have or they wouldn't have been on the list in the minds of others, you say plenty others say not enough, public perception tell me what number is a good enough number to delist them US wide? Canada has between 52,000 and 60,000 in the entire area, The US has around 4,000 US wide, Alaska has 6,000-7,000 and has hunting trapping season. The wolf is protected by the Endangered Species Act (ESA) as either threatened or endangered. Hopefully with delisting and a common sense approach a balance can be struck by both sides. Again with public perception of wolves you will never get them at coyote or P-dog statis as the majority wouldn't like it. That is just the facts.

We are wheeling the gray wolf out of the emergency room and into long-term care," says Ed Bangs, a biologist and a coordinator of the USFWS wolf recovery program in Helena, Mont.

The delisting proposal rests on state willingness—and readiness—to maintain the wolf population so that it doesn't become endangered again.

Delisting would not signal open season on wolves, according to Bangs. "There would probably be more liberal taking of problem wolves," he says, "and a regulated public hunting season."

The gray wolf once was the most widely distributed large predator in North America. By 1930 the wolf had almost vanished from the 48 contiguous states, leaving only a small population in the Midwest.

Since 1974 the federal Endangered Species Act has protected the wolf.
 
Liberty Belle said:
Thought you might like to see the cat conked by our favorite art and music teacher.

One less critter to dine on our livestock.
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How would you like this old girl jumping up out of the ditch at you in the middle of the night? Or any other time, for that matter.
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Yep looks like a cat to me.Not supposed to have moose eating with my cows where I live either
 
Happy, you write more and say less than anyone on here and are really good at evading questions you don't want to answer. This seems to be typical behavior for a "government is the answer for all your problems" bureaucrat.

How about answering my question? What branch of game and fish do you work for?

Federal or state?
 
can understand that, but do you have something to hide?

I don't allow hunting on my land either for MANY reasons and I hear this line OVER AND OVER.

And who do I hear it from????...those folks who DON'T have any land, etc to protect! So, they want to tromp all over mine and get their ' nature experience' off of me. Land's for sale every day...go buy ya some!

It's my land...I pay the taxes and I say who can and can't be on it...and if I find you on it...you better have a GOOD reason and a quick answer!

Ihave the entrances to my farm and home gated...and I keep'em locked. I get asked " why you got them gates up and locked??" My response.. " Because I can"
 
Kola, you are so right about this. I don't know if you recall any of the posting from SH months ago when we were fussing about this same issue, but " what are you trying to hide?" is a question GF&P employees and big government nuts like Tony Dean keep asking. You'd think we have a meth lab behind every sagebrush, a still under every rock and dead bodies stored in the barn!!!

I'd like to know what THEY have to hide that prevents them from asking my permission before they trespass on my land. It must be something pretty awful that they can't be bothered to ask me even months in advance.

My coffee pot is always on and I love to visit, but so far no one from GF&P has ever bothered to stop in. Just one indication that GF&P's communications brouhaha might not be all they say it is...
 
kolan sorry but the Game dept is there to help keep criminal activity down not to cause you issues, can you name an issue that has come up where the government has invaded your property rights? You all want to bash your game depts yet what proof of abuse do you have? bring it up front and center and make it 100% factual and I'm on your side. I'm not saying you have to allow all onto your property but when co's work sting investigations and yes sometimes landowners are part of it, then what sense would it make to tip off the landowner? Get real!

LB by reading your post and your half cocked attitude I would expect nothing less from you! You don't answer my questions about actual loss from ungulates, yet you demand from me my association with wildlife? I want a factual debate otherwise a waste of my time, you claimed loss yet can not prove it in a monatary sense, you claim the Game commison has done you wrong yet you can't back it up. You claim the antelope where saved by your stations, yet did you know antelope used to be a migratory species before fences? they would winter in MO,Neb, and KS where the weather is better, funny how you claim victory to saving the antelope when if their migration would have continued we would have so many antelope they would be like shooting rats in a corn dryer! Now they stay in areas and with a hard winter you get 80% or more in mortality, that debate goes both ways LB.

How much of the landowners' resources, i.e. grass, hay, corn piles, vehicles and fences are damaged and wasted by the public's wildlife? None of these lost resources are paid for out of public funds. The expenses are paid for by the landowners who are not allowed to do anything about wildlife damage on private property.

This is fair? Not the way I see it!!!

Them answer your own question and tell me the dollar amount of loss? Also with your state having an ADC program are you going to tell me you benefit in no way,shape or form from coyote control performed for you at a cost that is more than fair? AH the internet is a powerful tool to find out manys things about many states and programs! Tell me yes and back it with facts please LB? I would like to do nothing more than have a factual debate with you on any wildlife issue, just stick to facts and not blowing in the wind with opinion. Thank You, Happy Go Lucky.
 
Happy, we're done talkin'.

You refuse to tell us which branch of game and fish you work for and then you give us another page of hot air that is nothing but your less-then-objective opinions. You haven't convinced me or any of the other folks on here of anything and it doesn't look like you're going to.

What debate? You haven't presented any hard facts, all of this drivel is just your opinion and since it differs diametrically with my opinion, I'm done wasting my time.
 
HGLucky...I will give one issue that was inflicted upon me by my local Game Warden. I'm in the South...we've got beavers up the whazu! They are destructive here to trees and erode creek banks, etc. They HAVE to be controlled! We've even had some county road bridges collapse with cars on them cause the beavers have undermined the supporting banks... but I digress.

My local Fish Cop , whom I've known every day of my 45 yrs., thought it would be " funny" to set loose on me some beavers he'd trapped somewhere else. " Ah...she don't anything else to do" BullShite!!

It took 4 years and about $6K dollars for me to get rid of the varmits stop the erosion on the creek banks they caused, I lost about 6 " rare" Fraiser Magnolia trees ( they are wild trees) and the county had to come in and spend who knows how much to replace a culvert just below me because the water was eating away @ the sides of the culvert instead of going through it! All because this FishCop came onto my land & did a stupid prank!

Guess what...he got promoted! I don't even remember what all I called him VERY loudly in public the next chance I saw him in town. In fact, bystanders told me I got him good as I was so mad, I don't even rememer what I said to the fool.


Point is....if they can do that with something like a beaver...makes ya wonder what else gets turned loose on the side of the road!!!!!

I'm done also!
 
Kolan wrote: I'm in the South...we've got beavers up the whazu!
Kolan wrote: It took 4 years and about $6K dollars for me to get rid of the varmits stop the erosion on the creek banks they caused, I lost about 6 " rare" Fraiser Magnolia trees

First off you stated you have beaver up the whazu correct? The you talk about letting them go on your property correct? Point is....if they can do that with something like a beaver...makes ya wonder what else gets turned loose on the side of the road!!!!!

First point is beavers disperse Kolan, you can trap/shoot out all the beaver you want on a watershed but more will move back in if you have habitat the beavers like, in the spring male beavers can travle large distances to find mates and setup home! I just hope you knew that.

Secondly it took 4 years and 6,000 to rid you of the beavers? May I ask what tools and techniques you used that it took that amount of time/exspense to rid your self of some beavers? or could it be back to the dispearsal issue that you have good habitat and the beavers kept comeing into your creek,river drainage system? I also don't know your laws but most states they do not allow CO's or anyone else to release animals on private property without landowner permission. Now that is different for public owned or state/federal grounds! They can release species on these grounds but in order to introduce new species public hearings must be had first. Now if your story is 100% factual and you seen or the CO's told you they released beavers on your water shed remember the ditch is a public right of way and the water is not private ownership, so if he/she released beaver at a public access point into a public watershed that is well within the laws, Now should have the CO came and talked to you first and let you know of thse dealings you bet that CO was 100% wrong if it all played out exactly as described,but I'm willing to bet you get more beavers on your area who will get blamed and bad mouthed? The co I'm sure, don't forget unless you have 5 ft fenceing that goes around the perimeter of your ground and a few feet under the channel of the water beaver move and they will be back provided you have ample water and decent habitat.

I've done a few things in my time with beavers.
 
Jinglebob said:
Happy go lucky said:
I've done a few things in my time with beavers.
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Don't know as I'd brag on that, myself. :wink: :oops:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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My wife's grandparents last name on here moms side is Beaver :shock: :shock: :shock:
 
I have only had a problem with beavers once. About 10 years ago they damed the only creek thru our property. I thought the best thing to do was call DNR - - - I was told they are protected in Indiana and I could not do anything with them. Boy was I glad I had not told them who I was.

I took my backhoe and removed a large section of the dam on a saterday morning and then again the next three saterdays and finally they ran out of material to rebuild and have never again had a problem.

Boy did they cause a lot of damage in the time they were here!!!
 
#1...they are not back

#2..... a custom made .223 w/ nite scope, backhoe work, time and effort, refortification of creek banks with rock...replant trees, sew grass to prevent erosion.

#3 I don't care if they are protected or not....shoulda have on their Kevlar!


And I'm glad you're familiar w/ beaver :???: .....and seem to be an expert!!

But that's been a few years ago...no beavers yet!! And this " woulda,coulda,shoulda" talked to me....blah blah blah....don't happen in the real world.

Any WHY am I even bothering to waste my time ?????
 
1...they are not back

#2..... a custom made .223 w/ nite scope, backhoe work, time and effort, refortification of creek banks with rock...replant trees, sew grass to prevent erosion.

#3 I don't care if they are protected or not....shoulda have on their Kevlar!

Kolan is this a creek or river? Why wouldn't the beaver float down onto your ground now? You stated you have beaver up the whazoo correct? That goes against all my findings in dealing with beaver. To say you can rid a section of a watershed from beaver for an extended period of time, provided you have the habitat and needed supplys for beaver doesn't jive with what most see with beaver, some areas are a constant battle unless you change the habitat and make it less beaver friendly.

Your custom made .223 and night scope could have been replaced with a hole in the dam on a moon lit night and a 12 ga with steel BBB, along with good trapping techniques or having a county agent blow the dam. Why not call your game commision do they not have private contract trappers to take care of beaver? or does your state not have a program for dealing with these issues as well? Last question how long where these beaver on your property and how long did it take you to rid them? Good Day HGL
 
The GAME COMMISSION is who set the critters out on MY CREEK.

Re-read my first post...he thought it was funny...a dumbass would think that...and he's a dumbass....'nuff said. Example of his IQ....he stuck his arm into a cage with a wild raccoon to " get it out"...being a coon it wrapped itself around his arm. He beat the coon against the side of his personal brand new truck to try to get it off....thus beating in the whole side of his truck. DUMBASS.... You DON'T stick your arm in a box with a PO'd wild coon. This is what I'm dealing with.

I prefer my .223, my weapon of choice


Are you a " beaver" expert or what???? Loaded question I know!!!
 

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