• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

One less mountain lion in Harding County

We had the mounties drop by on sunday and inform us that there was a couger sited in the creek near our place. I asked him if I should call him before or after I shot it. He laughed and said to go right ahead and drop it. We are located on the bald prairie in south east alberta I wonder where the cats are coming from?
 
I grew up in a traditional cougar habitat. They had always been around. I'm sure the area ranchers did their part to keep the population under control. But I can tell you this, cougars like their solitude, they like being invisible. I saw tracks often as a kid, but only saw one once, and it was clearing out.

Now the "greenie"s as someone called them will say that the reason for more sightings rests on our shoulders as invading humans, but the honest truth is, if you're actually seeing something that's typical response is to remain invisible, there are too many of them, and they're getting dangerously bold.

But we just live on and work the land, we don't commune with it in the city nature parks. What would we know?
 
Okay SDH, you overdosed huh? Go ahead and believe whatever you want. I still would like to see Tony Dean is the same situation.

Yeah, lions are everywhere now and you can be sure that if given a chance to deal with them, we will. The problem I have is the GF&P and USFW making my management decisions for me. As needtolearn says, "But we just live on and work the land, we don't commune with it in the city nature parks. What would we know?"

Finally you posted something I can agree with. If I see a mountain lion in the middle of my pasture sleeping off a full meal, you can be sure I will do my best to make that a long and permanent rest.

I sincerely hope you fill that lion tag this fall. Good luck.
 
LB wrote:The problem I have is the GF&P and USFW making my management decisions for me.

First you do not have legal control of wildife on your place to shoot whenever and where ever! Tha decision is made by those intrusted by each state and the federal governemnt, without that control how much wildife would be wasted?

LB do you have a wildlife biology degree? Do you think you have the inherant right to kill on demand? When states make rules and regs they do it for the betterment of all that is a democratcy! Some speices need more protection than others due to many factors, reproduction, predator/prey links, disease, pressure applied to those species. Some species get little or no protection as they have proven themselves to have the ability to keep up with pressure applied, other species could not do so,then you have regs and seasons on those species.

Tell me about the Mt Lion and how your game commision has dealt you wrong? Before you answer think about it, because I follow alot of wildlife issues.
 
Happy go lucky said:
First you do not have legal control of wildife on your place to shoot whenever and where ever! Tha decision is made by those intrusted by each state and the federal governemnt, without that control how much wildife would be wasted?

LB do you have a wildlife biology degree? Do you think you have the inherant right to kill on demand? When states make rules and regs they do it for the betterment of all that is a democratcy!

Is it my land? Is it my stock? Yes, they are mine! They do not belong to the "democracy". It is not the inherent right of government to decide for me how to be wise.

You speak of wasted wildlife. What about my wasted cows? Can I eat the moutain lion after it consumes the cow I was planning to feed my family? Do you honestly think I raise animals yet have no care for the balance of the natural process?

Did we come from another planet? No, I am a part of the "cirle of life". I am a predator myself. If you approach your philosophy from the Biblical view, I have the right to dominion over the animals. If you appraoch it from an evolutionary standpoint, I have the right to exercise survival of the fittest.

Mountain lions are amazing, gorgeous, impressive animals, and as long as they adapt and keep away from my stock and my children, they are more than welcome to share in my habitat. When they cross that line, survival of the fittest!
 
need to learn.....you are right. And i do believe it is legal to protect your cattle from harm but that dont mean to shoot everyone you see just.

the bald eagle and goldens and such are about to be taken off the endangerd list. WHy? good question.

In the east, there are many who have pheasant preserves. They make their living on pheasants/hunters. Eagles and hawks and owls are always around, yet its illegal to shoot them. If they swoop down and take a pheasant, does that make it ok to shoot them or should they just shoot them all just in case they decide to take one?

I have kids myself and even in the east, my kids, wife and i have discussed what to do if we see a lion. Would i shoot it? depends on what it was doing. If its fighting my dog or taking a sheep, its dead. If its walking across the bean field, its safe. You cant just eliminate the animal all togather, like it or not.
 
I agree. That's what I mean by personal wisdom, and the adaptation of the lion. If its moving through to hunt a bunny, more power to it.

When someone comes to my door to sell goods, or hand my a tract, it may annoy that heck out of me, but they're no threat, and I'm bright enough to figure that out. But if they come through my window to steal my property or hurt my family, well, I think I've made my point.

Have you ever noticed that deer seem to know where the No Hunting signs are posted and hang out there, much to the hunter's chagrin. I think lions are the same way. The decent ones know how to stay out of the way.
 
needtolearn said:
Have you ever noticed that deer seem to know where the No Hunting signs are posted and hang out there, much to the hunter's chagrin. I think lions are the same way. The decent ones know how to stay out of the way.

Exactly! That is why when we shoot the ones who are doing the harm, we are eliminating the right one. When we indisciminatley shoot any of that species, we may be killing the ones who will coexist with us and our livestock, without causing us harm.

Too many want to shoot anything that moves. Like mice. Why trap the ones that are not bothering you? Or misquito's. Sure a few people get West Nile and some die and a few horses die, why do we kill all that we see? And flies too. Man, we are a bunch of inconsiderate fools!
 
Southdakotahunter said:
I sense some sarcasim jb......you cant compair flies with lions or mice with coyotes....thats the apples and oranges deal.

They are all owned by the state aren't they?

To you, deer are a wonderful animal that you love to hunt and eat. To many around here, where we have (as they think) too many as we haveprovided a good feed source and salt and ineral diet for them, they are like overgrown mice.

I have them and I like to see them around. They are part of my ranch and life. But they are no more than cute mice and can be a pain if there get to be too many.

I am not comparing apples and oranges. Animals don't even look or smell lke appleds and oranges. Maybe you better get your eyes checked? :???:

Have you ever seen an orange deer. Or coyote.

Do you own any land?

If so, have you ever had an animal, that no one but the state owned, as in deer, as you say, and mice or gophers or any other wild insect or animal, bother you on that land? Did you call the first drunkin' slob you could think of to come and take care of the problem for you? Or did you take care of the problem yourself?

We like to take care of our own problems.

If it weren't for us and our ancestors, there would be no turkey, or deer around these parts.

We protected and invested time and money to bring them here and creat habitat for them.

Why don't we get a say in controling them?

And why do you care? You don't live here. Why don't you concern yourself with the problems of wildflife in your area and on your land.

Hey, I know, why don't you get some elk and bear and other wild animals that aren't in your area, and protect and help them get some numbers, and then I'll come and hunt them for free. I can camp in your yard and use your toilet.

Cool, way to go buddy. :wink:
 
Southdakotahunter said:
I sense some sarcasim jb......you cant compair flies with lions or mice with coyotes....thats the apples and oranges deal.

Why can't you a pest is a pest no matter what form it comes in.A fly is a pest to a city dwellar and a coyote damn sure is in a lambing or calveing pasture.We had 4 bald eagles hanging around during calveing if they would have started picking eyeballs out of baby calves I would of had a new war bonnet...all they are is a pretty buzzard.
 
i do own land, and i have had problems with deer. I have planted trees to only see many get tore up by bucks in the fall. I have also seen the rabbits tear them up when we have a bad winter. I shoot rabbits in the winter also because there is a season on them(cottontails) until feb 28th so i do it legaly Do i shoot all of them because they are causing me problems? i shoot them when the season is open. I, just like you, would much rather take care of the problem myself than get the assistance of others...thats pride...we all have that, some more than others....there are some problems that you just cant take care of yourself, like overpopulations of deer.

How come every hunter is a drunk slob to you JB? I am sorry if you have had a bad experience in the past, but 99% are good people. I dont think every farmer and rancher are welfare addicts...i know many are , but i dont catagorize all of them that way. All the ranchers and farmers i deal with are happy to see me i think.....but i do a little more than most....i help do some fencing for a weekend in the summer for my pal out west, i also haul grain to the elevator so some other friends can keep the combine going in the fall... some other places i stop in and shoot rabbits for them around theier place when the snow gets to hi and are hurting some trees. all for the return of hunting their land.........I think someone else on here said this "you have problems with prairie dogs and gophers, yet you shoot every coyote you see" does that make sense?......
 
Hey happy.. If wildlife endangers my family I will kill it. I know that is not the way people handle things in your urban environments. We have had deaths and attacks from cougars in Alberta. Contrary to urban myth these animal populations are growing due to plentifull food supplies and good habitat.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
i do own land, and i have had problems with deer. I have planted trees to only see many get tore up by bucks in the fall. I have also seen the rabbits tear them up when we have a bad winter. I shoot rabbits in the winter also because there is a season on them(cottontails) until feb 28th so i do it legaly Do i shoot all of them because they are causing me problems? i shoot them when the season is open. I, just like you, would much rather take care of the problem myself than get the assistance of others...thats pride...we all have that, some more than others....there are some problems that you just cant take care of yourself, like overpopulations of deer.

How come every hunter is a drunk slob to you JB? I am sorry if you have had a bad experience in the past, but 99% are good people. I dont think every farmer and rancher are welfare addicts...i know many are , but i dont catagorize all of them that way. All the ranchers and farmers i deal with are happy to see me i think.....but i do a little more than most....i help do some fencing for a weekend in the summer for my pal out west, i also haul grain to the elevator so some other friends can keep the combine going in the fall... some other places i stop in and shoot rabbits for them around theier place when the snow gets to hi and are hurting some trees. all for the return of hunting their land.........I think someone else on here said this "you have problems with prairie dogs and gophers, yet you shoot every coyote you see" does that make sense?......

Yup, I've had problems with braggin', drunken hunters in the past. I've also had some real good guys.

Those like you say you are, are usually welcome. Those who are a pain, ruin it for others.

As I told Curt, get to know some people and then ask to hunt. It's a lot harder to tell a friend, no, then it is a stranger.

When people used to pull into my yard and basicly demand that I let them hunt, I got my feathers ruffled a little.

Anymore, it's just easier to deal with the animals than the hunters.

And by the way, we can and do deal with overpopulation in deer. It's called epidemics.

Why can't the law read that after the season, how ever many unsold licenses are left over in an area, they can give to landowners who have too many deer and let them fill the tags? If they want the meat fine, if not, the coyotes and fox need something to eat. And who in the hell are they to tell me what to do with my deer after I bought and paid for a license to shoot it? If someone buys beef from me and wants to throw it out to feed the wildlife, i don't care.

The GF&P has gotten way to high and mighty and until they start to show some appreciation from the people who are running their livestock for free, then I guess I'll choose not to try and get along with them either. And according to them, it is their livestock, until it's time to pay for the feed bill and then it's the "peoples" livestock. Ain't none ever showed up here to help feed them!

And I sure wish the "people" would do a better job of fencing "their" livestock in, so I wouldn't have to try and not hit them on the road. If someone let their cattle run on roads like the "people" do with "their" livestock, you could at least sue them for damages.

They want us to do what they say, and they sure as hell won't compromise with us. It's their way or the hyway. Well guess what. I pay the taxes on this land so I will decide when and if anyone gets to use it and/or it's production.

You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar and it's about time the GF&P figured that out.

Why is it they never come visit, except during hunting season?

They are no different than a hunter. If they got to know the landowners, they might get alot farther.

They won't listen and do anything we suggest, but we are just supposed to kneel down and worship them as gods. Hu'uh, ain't gonn'a do it! :evil:

I'll bet I know as much about the deer around here as any wildlife biologist does, who makes decisions about how to "manage" deer herds. They don't manage anything, but how to get more licesnes sold to they can make more money, by letting some one else do most of the work, they are supposedly doing, by "managing " the deer. Pretty nice racket they got going, huh?

Oh, and I don't try to tell you how to handle problems in your area, which I am not familiar with, so why do you try and tell me how to handle my problems, in an area, you are not familar with. Or have you been hunting on me, without permission?.

And you never did answer my question about me and my buddies coming back to YOUR land and camping and hunting on it. Man, bow and arrow trophy mouse hunting is a blast!
 
If you ask nice, i wouldnt have a problem JB.........I know a good taxidermist for your trophy mouse....ya see, mice are a problem around here also.......please dont shoot my 3 cats because they help to control my mouse population.....huh, thats amazing,,,,,,a preditor that will help out my situation....i would have never thunk it!

i reallly reallly wish the gfp would talk to the ranchers and farmers about what they should do. I really really wish they would ask the ranchers how many deer do you have on your land, how many do you want, and how many are you gonna let in to hunt.....i really really wish the gfp would give you all the doe tags you want, but what would be the use for a tag if you leave them lay? There are plenty of charitys those could go to. I know the gfp needs to do some things different... i am sure everyone would be accomadating to them i am sure! Why dont we have this kind of a problem east river? Same state, same parks dept, hmmmmmmmmmm could there possibly be...no.....could any of this possibly be.............you? no no no.......i am sure not..........
 
Southdakotahunter said:
If you ask nice, i wouldnt have a problem JB.........I know a good taxidermist for your trophy mouse....ya see, mice are a problem around here also.......please dont shoot my 3 cats because they help to control my mouse population.....huh, thats amazing,,,,,,a preditor that will help out my situation....i would have never thunk it!

i reallly reallly wish the gfp would talk to the ranchers and farmers about what they should do. I really really wish they would ask the ranchers how many deer do you have on your land, how many do you want, and how many are you gonna let in to hunt.....i really really wish the gfp would give you all the doe tags you want, but what would be the use for a tag if you leave them lay? There are plenty of charitys those could go to. I know the gfp needs to do some things different... i am sure everyone would be accomadating to them i am sure! Why dont we have this kind of a problem east river? Same state, same parks dept, hmmmmmmmmmm could there possibly be...no.....could any of this possibly be.............you? no no no.......i am sure not..........

Yup, it sure could be me. But guess what. It's still a free country, tho' there are lots out there trying to take our freedoms away, so I can do anything that suits me on my land, as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's freedoms.

And I don't know that there is no problem in your neck of the woods. Are you sure that everybody lets everyone hunt for free? Seems to me I've heard a lot of guys talk about paying to pheasent hunt, east river, or goose hunt.

Maybe you guys don't charge for deer cuz there ain't nobody who will pay you for little, small antlered bucks? Maybe you'd have bigger ones, if you didn't let everyone who showed up, kill everything that has antlers? Like I said, I'm not familiar with your area.

I do know that my friend in Iowa gets paid quite a bit, from some guys who like the idea of having exclusive rights to hunt the deer on his land. And they leave the little ones so they will grow up and be big ones.

If we had too many big bucks, I bet we wouldn't have a problem with getting people to pay to come thin them out. But there are way too many who just want to shoot at antlers and then say, "Oh, I thought he was bigger than that." Slobs who ruin it for the others.

Would you have a problemn shooting only does for say, 3 or 4 years, so that there would be bigger bucks to get after that. Talk to your fellow hunters and explain this to them and then come talk to me about hunting.

Just like cattle, it takes some time and work to get the better ones. And they don't get big in one year. And they never get a chance to get big, if you kill them off when they are little. That my friend, is not deer management. It is getting paid to let people shoot and kill whatever they want. And not worrying about what they will be like next year, for the next guy.

Do you get to take any fish, on some species, or do they have to be a certain size, to get to keep them?

And get rid of them dang cats, they are killing off all of our good mouse hunting potential! :lol:

Can we shoot your cats? Then you wouldn't have to worry about them killing off all the good, big, trophy mice. :wink:
 
i get a kick out of you JB.....we should have a beer some time..anyway...i shoot ALOT of does.......last year my son and i took 6 doe and 2 bucks........my son shot his first buck, a fork mule deer, last year. He had shot all does before so he told me he was gonna shoot the first deer with antlers.....he did and i am proud of him very much. I didnt shoot a buck that hunt because i didnt see anything big enough, but we filled both our doe tags....

I know many who wont shoot a doe...if thats the case and i had a problem with deer, i wouldnt let anyone on to hunt unless they take a doe FIRST...but that would be tough if the big one shows up at shooting time!

Let me tell you a story JB....was hunting in Jones county.....friend of mine had hunted there the year before, he got permission to hunt from this old guy....he killed 2 doe. The next year my friend asked me if i wantd to go. I said sure and got tags. We went back to get permission and was told by his son $1000.......told him just want to shoot a doe...was told $1000.....told him would like to hunt the last weekend of the season....he said $1000....its not that everyone is that way, but there are many who wont even let ya shoot a doe but complain when there are too many and wonder why they cant just shoot all the deer themselfs,,,,cant figure out why that is wrong....as we left that joint, 2 coyotes were about 1/2 mile away in his pasture...think we stopped to shoot them? No way. We had planned on hunting public anyway...and we did and did ok...but put a bad taste in my mouth...i got no problem with those who charge...none at all. I will never pay $ but i will do some labor or install and AC or furnace for them....but never ever pay.
 
Need to learn you "do need to learn". I never stated anything about direct threarts to property,livestock or humans did I? No I didn't. Ranchers in South Dakota can if they see a Mt Lion in their livestock or around there dwellings have a right to shoot the lion, I would check with your game dept as this is what I have found out. Also your prairie season was longer than your Black Hills season and according to your state website, you had 1 lion killed outside of the hills and that wasn't even a wild lion. So when you state big problems where are they?

You see Mt Lions won't be setting up much in the way of home range out on prairies, they move through and keep on dispersing until they cause problems and then get taken out or get hit by cars etc. They look for ideal habitat and I can tell you the wide open is not ideal for lions to set up a home range and have kittens year after year. They have killed a few in Iowa and they do travel long distances, their looking for things that will afford them what they need and when they don't find it they keep on moving. "most" lions your going to get out of the Black Hills are going to be younger cats, the old males and females will stay put and defend their territory as the hills offers the lions all they need. With your hunting seasons and the ability to manage the population exspecialy with harvesting older cats you can cut down on the amount of dispersal from the hills. The pressure is aplied to younger cats to either stand and fight or exit the home range of the older more agressive cats.

I have zero problem with killing cats that are causing damage in your area if their a threat to you or your livestock dump them. The problem is your never going to have larger numbers of cats in that environment and your prairie season proved that out with not 1 single wild lion shot, with all the deer hunters, pheasant hunters, coyote callers, and ranchers/farmers you would have thought if the population of mt lions had ant worry that their surely could have been 1 wild cat harvested out there?

There are seasons and regs to protect the species from abuse and misuse and if anyone thinks without regulated seasons on some species that wouldn't happen your naive. Last I looked there is no closed season on mice JB so kill at will. It all comes to public perception and what value people put on each species, because after all it is all wildlife, but not all species are treated the same for many factors.

I have no problem with killing predators of any kind and the regs and rules are obeyed by all and not taken into the hands of a few and think they are benefitting all!

I also don't like the term: "out here" I think when some use it it is a way of stating they want to be or like to be segragated from the rest of the people in a state or the United states. Good Day!
 
First you do not have legal control of wildife on your place to shoot whenever and where ever! Tha decision is made by those intrusted by each state and the federal governemnt, without that control how much wildife would be wasted?
Happy, you are just too much!! Explain to me how either the state or the federal government "controls" wildlife. All they even attempt to control are the folks who raise the wildlife for them.

How much of the landowners' resources, i.e. grass, hay, corn piles, vehicles and fences are damaged and wasted by the public's wildlife? None of these lost resources are paid for out of public funds. The expenses are paid for by the landowners who are not allowed to do anything about wildlife damage on private property.

This is fair? Not the way I see it!!! :mad:
LB do you have a wildlife biology degree? Do you think you have the inherant right to kill on demand? When states make rules and regs they do it for the betterment of all that is a democratcy! Some speices need more protection than others due to many factors, reproduction, predator/prey links, disease, pressure applied to those species. Some species get little or no protection as they have proven themselves to have the ability to keep up with pressure applied, other species could not do so,then you have regs and seasons on those species.
No, I don't have a wildlife biology degree – do you? And what does that have to do with anything? Anybody, with the exception of idiots like you, can see what the publicly owned wildlife, including predators introduced and protected by the feds, do to damage our financial bottom line.
Tell me about the Mt Lion and how your game commision has dealt you wrong? Before you answer think about it, because I follow alot of wildlife issues.
So… if I answer your loony questions wrong, you'll be coming to take me away? What branch of game and fish do you work for anyway? Federal or state?
I also don't like the term: "out here" I think when some use it it is a way of stating they want to be or like to be segragated from the rest of the people in a state or the United states. Good Day!
I can't speak for anyone else, but I definitely want to be segregated from anyone with the kind of mindset you exhibit!! I'm sure glad all game and fish employees don't think like you do.

You don't like that attitude? That is just toooo bad. We're even - we don't much care for your attitude either. :twisted:
 
Liberty Belle,
You have more staying power with some on here than I do. I can't stand to argue with these people anymore. I know my position, I am not changing it, and it is tough if they don't like it. :!:

I haven't even been reading the game posts lately, but thought I would check in to see that you were still holding your own. Looks like it. :wink: :D
 

Latest posts

Back
Top