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organic fish

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
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Location
Nebraska
Buying a pork chop labeled "organic" is relatively straightforward: You can assume that the pig that produced it ate only organic food, roamed outdoors from time to time and was left free of antibiotics.


The U.S. Department of Agriculture is trying to help consumers by defining what makes a fish organic. Fishermen and fish farmers are each making a case for the coveted classification.

But what makes a fish organic?

That is a question vexing the Agriculture Department, which decides such things. The answer could determine whether Americans will be able to add fish to the growing list of organic foods they are buying, and whether fish farmers will be able to tap into that trend and the profits that go with it.

Organic foods, which many people believe to be more healthful (though others scoff), are grown on farms that shun chemicals and synthetic fertilizers and that meet certain government standards for safeguarding the environment and animals.

An organic tomato must flourish without conventional pesticides; an organic chicken cannot be fed antibiotics. Food marketers can use terms like "natural" and "free range" with some wiggle room, but only the Agriculture Department can sanction the "organic" label.

To the dismay of some fishermen - including many in the Alaskan salmon industry - this means that wild fish, whose living conditions are not controlled, are not likely to make the grade. And that has led to a lot of bafflement, since wild fish tend to swim in pristine waters, show lower levels of contaminants and be favored by fish lovers.

"If you can't call a wild Alaska salmon true and organic," asked Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, "what can you call organic?"

Instead, it appears that only farm-raised salmon may pass muster, as may a good number of other farm-raised fish - much to the delight of fish farmers.

"With our control from hatch to harvest, that's going to be what people are looking for," said Neil Anthony Sims, president and co-founder of Kona Blue Water Farms in Hawaii, which sells a species of yellowtail that is sometimes used for sushi.

But a proposed guideline at the Agriculture Department for calling certain farmed fish "organic" is controversial on all sides.

Environmentalists argue that many farm-raised fish live in cramped nets in conditions that can pollute the water, and that calling them organic is a perversion of the label. Those who catch and sell wild fish say that their products should be called organic and worry that if they aren't, fish farmers will gain a huge leg up.

Even among people who favor the designation of farmed fish as organic, there are huge disputes over which types of fish should be included.

Trying to define what makes a fish organic "is a strange concept," said George H. Leonard, science manager for the Seafood Watch Program at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, which offers a consumer guide to picking seafood. "I think the more you look at it, particularly for particular kinds of fish, it gets even stranger."

The issue comes down largely to what a fish eats and whether the fish can be fed an organic diet. There is broad agreement that the organic label is no problem for fish that are primarily vegetarians, like catfish and tilapia, because organic feed is available (though expensive).

Fish that are carnivores - salmon, for instance - are a different matter because they eat other fish, which cannot now be labeled organic. That creates a chicken-and-egg problem, so to speak. Wild tuna, swordfish and halibut are probably not going to qualify because they are rarely, if ever, farm raised.

The Agriculture Department panel that recommended adding farmed fish to the organic roster was willing to work around the issue and offered various ways that fish-eating fish could qualify.

But those work-arounds have infuriated some environmentalists, who take issue with the idea that a fish could be called organic if it ate meal made from wild, nonorganic fish. This constituency complains, among other things, that demand for fish meal is depleting wild fisheries.

"When it comes to carnivorous fish, it seems to be a complete deception of what organic means," said Andrea Kavanagh, director of the Pure Salmon Campaign, an advocacy group working to improve conditions for farm-raised fish. "Organic is supposed to be on 100 percent organic feed."

As the purists balk, the market for organic foods grows. Consumer sales reached $13.8 billion in 2005 compared with $3.6 billion in 1997, according to the Organic Trade Association. What started as a farming technique for crops has expanded into everything from processed foods to flowers and cosmetics. There was even a federal task force to evaluate organic pet food.

Fish farmers and retailers are painfully aware of what they are missing, and some of them are taking matters into their own hands. As things stand, a limited amount of seafood is being sold as organic at stores in the United States, usually because it was certified by other countries or by third-party accreditation agencies.

If the Agriculture Department ultimately approves organic fish, it would certainly complicate the debate about what types of seafood are best in terms of taste, nutrition, price and environmental impact. Farm-raised? Wild-caught? Or farm-raised organic?

There is plenty of history to the debate. In 2000, when the Agriculture Department sought to weed out some of the food industry's murkier organic claims, it named a task force to evaluate requests from fish farmers for organic eligibility.

The farmers argued, then as now, that with demand for seafood growing and many wild fisheries being depleted, farm-raised seafood should have a competitive edge. On farms, they said, the number of fish remains stable, and the quality of water and feed are controlled.

One thing the task force did was to rule out the possibility that wild fish could be labeled organic.

"It takes some thinking about," said Rebecca J. Goldburg, a senior scientist at the advocacy group Environmental Defense, who was on the advisory panel. "What it comes down to is, 'organic' is about agriculture, and catching wild animals isn't agriculture."

The task force recommended that farm-raised fish could be labeled organic as long as their diets were almost entirely organic plant feed.

The Agriculture Department shelved those recommendations and let the issue lie fallow. In 2005, a second task force was convened - this time, with most of the members affiliated with the aquaculture industry.

Earlier this year, the group recommended far less stringent rules, including three options for what organic fish could eat: an entirely organic diet; nonorganic fish for seven years while fish farms make the transition to organic fish meal; or nonorganic fish meal from "sustainable" fisheries. Sustainable fisheries are those that ensure that their fish stocks do not become depleted.

Even if the recommendations are adopted, it will still take several years before USDA-certified organic fish appear in stores or restaurants. But domestic fish farmers say that new rules cannot come soon enough. While the aquaculture industry has experienced rapid growth, the vast majority of it has been overseas - mainly in China - and much of the growth in seafood sales in the United States, which had a wholesale value of $29.2 billion in 2004, has come from imports.
 
http://www.scoringsystem.com/content/pr_focusfull.jpg Pond To Plate Records Or Boat to Throat verification, http://www.scoringsystem.com/content/pr_alaska-journal.htm
http://heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060821/FEATURES/608210345

ScoringAg does it All So;That is a question vexing the Agriculture Department, which decides such things. The answer could determine whether Americans will be able to add fish to the growing list of organic foods they are buying, and whether fish farmers will be able to tap into that trend and the profits that go with it.
Use ScoringAg !!
 
It takes a long time... keeps me traveling ... away and from the family. Gets my mind off reality, but I track down every last fish. I feel better about myself when I get all the fish!

Guilt? Have not caught any. :shock:
 
I Don't do the tagging but sell the recordkeeping system and it is by the catch as the fisherman starts the record and the retail store finishes the record.Of course I didn't sell the records mentioned but you can see on the contact page who did the selling of the records. link; http://www.scoringsystem.com/sales/america/
I am working on the Michigan Chippeau Indains now.
 
PORKER said:
I Don't do the tagging but sell the recordkeeping system and it is by the catch as the fisherman starts the record and the retail store finishes the record.Of course I didn't sell the records mentioned but you can see on the contact page who did the selling of the records. link; http://www.scoringsystem.com/sales/america/
I am working on the Michigan Chippeau Indains now.
Tell us Porker, how much does it cost you to pay Macon to overlook his rule from the main page or are you a coporate sponsor and therefore he allows it or does Scoringsystem.com actually own this site?

Macon:
Posting To post a new topic just click on the "new topic" tab. To post a reply to a specific message, just click on the "quote" button in the message to which you are replying and type in your reply. If you are replying to the topic in general and not a specific post just click on the "post reply" tab at the top of the messages. No Advertising Allowed! Use our free classified ads for your ads. http://ranchers.net/classifieds.htm
 
Knowing how the USDA operates :roll: - they will probably qualify the carp that are living and eating out of the Vietnam binjo ditch's as organic catfish.... :( :mad:
 
Okay, someone has hacked into my identity. I did not post this post:

It takes a long time... keeps me traveling ... away and from the family. Gets my mind off reality, but I track down every last fish. I feel better about myself when I get all the fish!

Guilt? Have not caught any. Shocked
 
Knowing how the USDA operates - they will probably qualify the carp that are living and eating out of the Vietnam binjo ditch's as organic catfish ,Oldtimer Quote**** .Heck, The Tampa Tribune has done the same thing on Grouper out of the Gulf and it was counterfiet tilalpia as some broker was bringing in the fish from China and pulling off the labels ,then putting on false labels to say Grouper.
 
Quoting Econ: "Okay, someone has hacked into my identity".........My goodness, Econ, are you having another 'conspiracy attack'? 'Phone tapping', knowledge of 'back door' and 'insider deals' which you cannot yet reveal, and now 'hacking' into your identity......so sorry you are having to contend with such serious problems in your life!

Porker, if Scoring Systems is so highly involved in identifying and labeling so many products, and no one else is able to do what they are, who is the 'watch dog' protecting us and assuring the absolute honesty and accuracy necessary for an outfit with such power and monopoly?

MRJ
 
MRJ said:
Quoting Econ: "Okay, someone has hacked into my identity".........My goodness, Econ, are you having another 'conspiracy attack'? 'Phone tapping', knowledge of 'back door' and 'insider deals' which you cannot yet reveal, and now 'hacking' into your identity......so sorry you are having to contend with such serious problems in your life!

Porker, if Scoring Systems is so highly involved in identifying and labeling so many products, and no one else is able to do what they are, who is the 'watch dog' protecting us and assuring the absolute honesty and accuracy necessary for an outfit with such power and monopoly?

MRJ

MRJ, please stop posting about things you know nothing about.

It seems you are on to a conspiracy yourself.
 
MRJ said:
Quoting Econ: "Okay, someone has hacked into my identity".........My goodness, Econ, are you having another 'conspiracy attack'? 'Phone tapping', knowledge of 'back door' and 'insider deals' which you cannot yet reveal, and now 'hacking' into your identity......so sorry you are having to contend with such serious problems in your life!

Porker, if Scoring Systems is so highly involved in identifying and labeling so many products, and no one else is able to do what they are, who is the 'watch dog' protecting us and assuring the absolute honesty and accuracy necessary for an outfit with such power and monopoly?

MRJ

MRJ, I did check on the IP address from Macon the post came from and it was from my home. My wife did it. It was her first post she has ever made on ranchers.net so it surprised me that she would even do it. It is kinda funny when I look at it.

I guess you could say I got hacked by my wife.

Although it is the first time on ranchers.net, it is not the first time she has hacked me.

It took a little time to figure it out, but there, you know the rest of the story. As you would say, "conspiracy" solved.
 
Maybe econ's wife should post more often. She is obviously the one that works for a living in that house and has a better grasp of reality.
 
Jason said:
Maybe econ's wife should post more often. She is obviously the one that works for a living in that house and has a better grasp of reality.

Another false assumption by a Canadian punk who can't fix his own roof but supports the actions of packers who cheat producers.

Jason, when will you ever be a man?
 
Econ, your wife is your problem......not interesting to me. Re. telling me not to post...... how dare you, of the vicious name calling habit, tell anyone not to post material not forbidden on the site, for any reason???

If you are calling me conspiracy minded to question who is going to monitor Scoring Systems' practices........we could just about guarantee you would scream foul after every line of Scoring Systems' many achievements if the very same thing were being done by USDA.

Isn't that inconsistent, at best?

MRJ
 
MRJ said:
Econ, your wife is your problem......not interesting to me. Re. telling me not to post...... how dare you, of the vicious name calling habit, tell anyone not to post material not forbidden on the site, for any reason???

If you are calling me conspiracy minded to question who is going to monitor Scoring Systems' practices........we could just about guarantee you would scream foul after every line of Scoring Systems' many achievements if the very same thing were being done by USDA.

Isn't that inconsistent, at best?

MRJ

My wife is not a problem. She does know how much I like to fish. I usually catch the biggest and most on every fishing trip. The last time I have fished in the gulf and on the Pacific I have caught the biggest, and the most. My wife likes the fish I catch. Catching the most, biggest, and the ease of it---I can't help that---it runs in the family. That is what makes her post so funny. It is an inside joke.

If it makes a that big a difference to you, don't post.
 
MRJ Quote,If you are calling me conspiracy minded to question who is going to monitor Scoring Systems' practices........
**** Every user of the databases have a stake in accuracy as the final record has the total collected info that a regalatory agency like FDA would look at in case of a event.
we could just about guarantee you would scream foul after every line of Scoring Systems' many achievements if the very same thing were being done by USDA.
**** I am not speaking for the Staff at ScoringAg, but I have heard them speak at conferences about honesty in the food industry in the name of those that have died or have been crippled the rest of their lives. As a farmer an rancher I produce clean wholesome food and I tell the truth and have nothing to hide. With the above question why are you questioning who montiors their practices (SSI)as only the food handlers and the last buyer could see a public record.Do you want to hide something?
 
Say Mr Kanitz, I'll bet that MRJ called you , about who the 'watch dog' protecting us is and assuring the absolute honesty and accuracy necessary for an outfit with such power and monopoly?
 

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