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"organic" vrs "natural" beef- from New Y

The virgin bulls we butcher are pure Angus and of the genetics that marble at a very young age.

Considering a choice grade is only about 5% fat, the ground beef can be 95% lean if external fat is not added.

The beef from these bulls is very red, not dark, but not a pale red like a young steer.

Steers at the same age as a bull fed the same way are about 30% fatter on the outside, or waste fat that is trimmed. The taste fat is the marbling that is dispersed in the muscle.

The other thing slightly different is that the bulls are initially kept for potential breeders. They only wind up as beef if they fail their semen test or fail to develop into a saleable bull (legs or feet aren't correct enough). Because of this they are fed slower. Most have never got more than 10 pounds of grain a day. Some don't believe you can finish a beef on this amount of grain.

I do know I have "city" friends that would have a fit if they knew they were eating a bull, they enjoy the beef and they never ask about the live status of the animals they are chewing on. Most people never ask if they are eating a heifer or a steer, so the bull is just a steer with extra parts.
 
In the early 70's Sally Forbes (Becton Stock Farm, Sheridan, Wyoming)thought that bull meat would be the meat of choice. She talked about the lean to fat ratio, dressing percentage, etc. She marketed it to
folks around there and had a good following. We bought one from her
once and it must have been good, because I don't remember that it was bad (and I would have).

We moved and I don't know what happened with her idea but
I have not heard any more of it.
 
I know of a few lots that feed out bulls. The major drawback is bulls tend to fight. When they fight they tear up pens and can tear up each other.

If I had the choice, I would feed all bulls if I could eliminate the fighting problems. They gain better and do produce a leaner carcass, so better yield grades. I have never had a dark cutter, but some claim bulls are more prone to that.

I do know Cargill at High River has found when the wind is really bad thay have more dark cutters, and that is in steers and heifers.
 
Jason said:
I know of a few lots that feed out bulls. The major drawback is bulls tend to fight. When they fight they tear up pens and can tear up each other.

If I had the choice, I would feed all bulls if I could eliminate the fighting problems. They gain better and do produce a leaner carcass, so better yield grades. I have never had a dark cutter, but some claim bulls are more prone to that.

I do know Cargill at High River has found when the wind is really bad thay have more dark cutters, and that is in steers and heifers.
Click to expand...

I had to look up on Google what "dark cutter" meant. Does that effect the taste or is it strictly an appearance problem for the consumer?
 
Faster horses said:
I think 'dark cutters' happen when cattle are overly stressed.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I think the meat is still
good, but cannot be graded very high.
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The realy bad "dark cutters" can be like glue and won't even brown in a frying pan.
If you want the most flavorful, juicy hamburger,get a grass fat HEREFORD,have the butcher put extra backfat in the grinding.Pan fry(to keep that awful smoke-taste from covering up the REAL flavor.)
Look me up I'll cook one for you.You'll never be satisfied with anything other ever again!
 
Stress is indeed the cause of dark cutters.

Animals that have this happen are not graded and severely discounted as the meat becomes tough and is not saleable as steaks and roasts. It has to be ground and mixed. It becomes so dark red it is almost black.

The explaination is hormones like adrenaline surge to prepare the animals for the flight or fight response.

This shows why it is important to have calm cattle, handle them calmly, have well designed corrals etc.

So many factors affect the quality of beef, many of them start well before the feedlot or packer.

I have only had 1 dark cutter, it was a holstien steer that I bought to replace a dead calf. He seemed pretty calm but they said holstiens are common to cut dark. That same load I had 4 bulls that all graded well.
 
nr, you come up with the best questions! I never thought about "why virgin bulls"? Nor whether or not the 'dark cutters' were simply cosmetic blemishes, or more problematic.

We have a friend in the Seattle area who says Costco is far the best place to buy quality beef......after trying many other places. His favorite is rib eye steaks, though he says his wife tries to limit those due to the high fat.

I really believe more and better research and testing will reveal the benefits of that beef fat, and that those benefits will outweigh the 'bad' cholesterol element in most beef, not only grass-fed.

MRJ
 
It's so nice to have interaction with folks like nr who never would have met ranchers or known as much about cattle if not for this site.

It truely is a give and take where we get to interact with city folks as well and see what our real impression is on them.

Consumers are the ultimate source of our income, so thank you nr for buying and eating beef. :)

If we educate each other, those like nr and others, more and more people get facts about beef instead of a bad impression 1 story may or may not make.
 
You ranchers definitely have your own specialized ranch vocabulary as well as shortened ways of saying things. Rancher Street Talk. Makes it interesting for me. Really. Often scratching my brain trying to understand what you're driving at. My computer has lists, long long lists, saved of your wordings, phrasing, going on for at least 3 yrs. now. No wonder the computer is slow :D :roll: Started with just Soapweed's then kept adding from other folks postings.

Since you didn't ask I'll give you an example or ten.

Why would a horse be described as cowy? (now if you milked it, that would make sense I suppose.)

Some of you, when asked what a fellow raises would say "he runs cattle." You all say over and over you're not supposed to make them run or the meat gets tough from stress, but never mind, a person "runs" cattle on his land anyhow. I know one end of the cow runs, but that isn't what you're referring to. It is just a different way of expressing raising something. I thought that was interesting. You probably didn't!

And a dark cutter is not a tanned man castrating a bull.
Nor is it a boat painted black or a black knife.

And "pulling calves" doesn't mean leading them along.

The list goes on and on.....

MRJ- nice to see you posting. I thought you'd dropped off the face of the earth awhile back. Even if they don't discover anything new about beef fat, I'm sure beef is here to stay!
 
Brad S said:
I wonder if that really potent short grass like in western SD would make a critter nearly as fat as corn? As far as taste, sure fat holds taste, but age offers a taste that some swear is the best.


I had a first calf heifer lose her calf in the spring and she ran out dry summer 05 was bred but fell on the ice in Jan. 06 lost calf early, so I let her clean up til end of feb. then hauled her to the local locker. She weighed 1450 live and was fat as heck. The butcher said she was the one of fattest they saw in years. All she'd ever been fed was meadow hay and a pound or two of 20% protein cubes as a weaned calf then she was ranged on the hard grass of the Pine Ridge Res. with some cake fed when temp dropped below +10 F. She has been awsome eating just can't leave grill when cooking steaks extra fat might burn the place down :!: Don't have to eat all the fat but some sure taste good :wink:

I have a friend who winters my breeding bulls and replacement heifers because of my limited space anyway we mixed the pen of older bulls with the coming 2yr. olds for feeding ease. They raised he$$ as bulls do and broke a young bulls hind leg right fast. My friend babied the young bull into the trailer and took him to the locker. The butcher said he'd only be good for hamburger but he said he wanted some made into minute steaks too. He and I slit it 50/50 he says its delicous, burgers are pretty lean but still tasty. I've yet to try it. Bull was fed same as heifer above. Don't know about the virgin thing but makes sense. Bulls probably are'nt like a fine wine :shock:

Corn fed, grass fed, there's lots of variables here but good beef is good beef :!: :D

I grew up on wild venison, wild birds and a limited supply of beef/pork. And as a adult have hunted/killed/eaten lots of deer/elk/antalope/buffalo/moose but my home raised beef is my hands down first choice.

Jason is right on with handling/facilities starting with the producer on up to the kill floor when it comes to dark cutters. I have a uncle who is a USDA meat inspector at a 5 thousand kill a day plant and he says if they come in a wild acting animal thats how they will taste after they leave. I'll bet cattle Handled like Soapweeds make a excellent end product for somebody. Anybody who's hunted wild game animals for meat has this figured out. Kill a animal quickly, humanly and with out pursuing for miles then dressed cooled and butchered properly= good meat. I just cringe when I see these sportsmen motoring down the road with a kill on the roof/hood in 60+F temps. Kill a mature animal in the rut which most trophy hunters do you might as well eat the antlers.Mrs. Greg Knows this :x So Do I :lol:

I hope MRJ is right about beef fat benefits or I may be in trouble :o

Ok my times up later folks
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[
If you want the most flavorful, juicy hamburger,get a grass fat HEREFORD,have the butcher put extra backfat in the grinding.Pan fry(to keep that awful smoke-taste from covering up the REAL flavor.)
Look me up I'll cook one for you.You'll never be satisfied with anything other ever again![/quote]

Your making me hungry :!: :-) Juan I sure won't argue over those good ol herefords. I've been thinking of throwing some back on those angus cows of mine :wink:
 
mom (me) says not right now dear :wink: we tried a hereford bull and instead of nice black baldies, we ended up with lots of reds, not the market favorite right now. :wink: :roll:
 
The nicest thing you can do to an Angus cow is breed her to a Hereford bull-were putting up export qualified semen on my new Horned Hereford bull this week-hint hint lol. We run a three breed crossbreeding deal here-Hereford,Angus and South Devon-the Hereford and Angus are for replacements and we breed all the cows we won't keep heifers out of South Devon-I like SD cows but just can't find a bull yet to put good enough udders on them. We usually butcher a dry three year old cow off grass for our beef-it's almost sinfully good.
 

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