Horseless
Well-known member
Every year I lose a couple calves about a month old or so, from overeating. At least thats what I blame it on. Does anybody else have that problem? Do you give a shot a birth?
Overeating Disease
- Thread starter Horseless
- Start date
A
Anonymous
Guest
Horseless said:
I do anymore-- give a 7 way at birth along with vitamin A-D-E when I tag them... Then give 7 way Somnus at branding....I think it has helped cut out those healthy ones that you just find dead.....
we started giving Alpha 7 at birth when it first came on the market and that stopped over eating. Last year we had a calf born late that I screwed around and did not get tagged, thought I would catch it when we got the cows in to AI. Got the cows in to synch them and here this calf blows up, and tips over dead. I am a firm believer in Alpha 7
sic 'em reds
Well-known member
We use Ultrabac 8 way over here to alleviate the problem, along with Mu-Se or Bo-Se, at birth.
Alot of people around here dont give it until branding, but we winter on circles and at some point in time someone elses cattle have been there and good knows what they left behind.
Alot of people around here dont give it until branding, but we winter on circles and at some point in time someone elses cattle have been there and good knows what they left behind.
Faster horses
Well-known member
The right mineral program can help with eliminating overeating disease.
We don't have entertoxemia since we changed to our current mineral.
The only shot our calves get in the spring is blackleg at branding time.
I'm telling you, a quality mineral program (year-round) takes care of all these aggravating things that you are used to experiencing.
Sick cattle aren't normal, healthy cattle are normal, IF we will
give them what they lack in their diet.
We don't have entertoxemia since we changed to our current mineral.
The only shot our calves get in the spring is blackleg at branding time.
I'm telling you, a quality mineral program (year-round) takes care of all these aggravating things that you are used to experiencing.
Sick cattle aren't normal, healthy cattle are normal, IF we will
give them what they lack in their diet.
Horseless
Well-known member
Faster Horses,
You always have a answer for all my questions. You really need to start your own bulletin board
:wink: . Cuz, I have many more questions, and I have the feeling that you got the answers. I have tried going back and looking at different topics, but I think it is just faster to ask the question again. Maybe you should change your name to Faster Answers 
But then I might have to change my name to Answerless :wink: I do enjoy this site and everybodies input.
You always have a answer for all my questions. You really need to start your own bulletin board
:wink: . Cuz, I have many more questions, and I have the feeling that you got the answers. I have tried going back and looking at different topics, but I think it is just faster to ask the question again. Maybe you should change your name to Faster Answers But then I might have to change my name to Answerless :wink: I do enjoy this site and everybodies input.Horseless
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I am not going to have enough hands to tag a calf any more. Besides tagging, I also band the bull calves, and now maybe two syringes. Almost forgot my farmers rope to catch the fast ones or to knock off any cows breathing down my neck.
SW, What is Alpha 7
John SD
Well-known member
I'm not sw, but I have used Alpha 7 on the calves at birth also. If you have a strong overeating bug out there, I believe Alpha 7 is the strongest and most effective clostridial vaccine available.
The thing about Alpha 7 is the oil based adjuvant (sp?) or whatever is in it is not very tissue friendly. I now get good results with Vision 7 at birth. Then another Vision 7 Somnus at branding time. Haven't had any knots or lumps at the injection site since I changed from Alpha to Vision.
Another thing you could do if vaccinating each calf at birth is too much to do is vaccinate the cow with 7-way or CD vaccine before calving. The cow then passes immunity to the calf through the colostrum. I believe a 7-way or CD shot also helps the calf with immunity to scours.
Either way you go, vaccinate the calf again at branding time because young calves at birth don't have a mature enough immune system yet to repsond to the vaccine as they will later on. My calves get another 7-way shot in the fall shots so they have had 3 shots of 7-way by the time they are weaned.
The thing about Alpha 7 is the oil based adjuvant (sp?) or whatever is in it is not very tissue friendly. I now get good results with Vision 7 at birth. Then another Vision 7 Somnus at branding time. Haven't had any knots or lumps at the injection site since I changed from Alpha to Vision.
Another thing you could do if vaccinating each calf at birth is too much to do is vaccinate the cow with 7-way or CD vaccine before calving. The cow then passes immunity to the calf through the colostrum. I believe a 7-way or CD shot also helps the calf with immunity to scours.
Either way you go, vaccinate the calf again at branding time because young calves at birth don't have a mature enough immune system yet to repsond to the vaccine as they will later on. My calves get another 7-way shot in the fall shots so they have had 3 shots of 7-way by the time they are weaned.
Horseless said:
http://www.bi-vetmedica.com/product_sites/Alpha7/reference.html
Like John said, though - if you try it, get ready for some BIG injection site knots. I agree with everybody else about it being a great product with some really quick immunity. But I quit it this year because the reactions were just way too bad.
Faster horses
Well-known member
I hate to say it, but that big knot is an indication your cattle don't have
a good immune system in the first place.
Cattle with a good immune system won't get those knots, or
won't get nearly as many.
I prefer Vision 7 to Alpha 7 but both are considered the very
best as far as overeating is concerned. The other kinds are pretty
much worthless.
I've just got to say this: I'm so glad we are on a good
mineral program and don't have to give the shots all you folks
talk about.
If you look into it, a good mineral program makes the vaccines
work better. You need to have a good immune system for the
vaccines to do their work. We didn't know this for a long, long time.
Right after it was revealed to us, Ft. Dodge came here and gave
a presentation. It was interesting to me that they talked for 45 minutes
on IMMUNE SYSTEM before they ever talked about vaccines.
a good immune system in the first place.
Cattle with a good immune system won't get those knots, or
won't get nearly as many.
I prefer Vision 7 to Alpha 7 but both are considered the very
best as far as overeating is concerned. The other kinds are pretty
much worthless.
I've just got to say this: I'm so glad we are on a good
mineral program and don't have to give the shots all you folks
talk about.
If you look into it, a good mineral program makes the vaccines
work better. You need to have a good immune system for the
vaccines to do their work. We didn't know this for a long, long time.
Right after it was revealed to us, Ft. Dodge came here and gave
a presentation. It was interesting to me that they talked for 45 minutes
on IMMUNE SYSTEM before they ever talked about vaccines.
John SD
Well-known member
Granted, you may have a point there FH. :wink: :lol: Back when I was giving Alpha 7 I wasn't feeding as much mineral as I do now.
At branding time my neighbor who also used Alpha 7 attributed the knots/lumps to bad injection technique, until we branded his calves the next week and found knots and lumps on his calves too! :roll: :lol:
I seem to get the same good results as Alpha 7 with Vision 7 and without any knots or lumps. OK, mineral could be some of the difference!
I have always used the disposable 3 ml syringes and 10 ds vaccine bottles in the field. Alpha 7 is really rough on the plungers in the vaccine guns and causes them to swell. I'd replace the gun with a new one with every bottle of vaccine.
No problems at all with the Vision 7. I probably shouldn't but I might only use a couple syringes for the whole herd for the season.
I wash the syringes out with plain water after use and allow to air dry disassembled. When I used Alpha 7, I would lube the plunger with mineral or vegetable oil before sticking it back together.
:lol: Back when I was giving Alpha 7 I wasn't feeding as much mineral as I do now.At branding time my neighbor who also used Alpha 7 attributed the knots/lumps to bad injection technique, until we branded his calves the next week and found knots and lumps on his calves too! :roll: :lol:
I seem to get the same good results as Alpha 7 with Vision 7 and without any knots or lumps. OK, mineral could be some of the difference!
I have always used the disposable 3 ml syringes and 10 ds vaccine bottles in the field. Alpha 7 is really rough on the plungers in the vaccine guns and causes them to swell. I'd replace the gun with a new one with every bottle of vaccine.
No problems at all with the Vision 7. I probably shouldn't but I might only use a couple syringes for the whole herd for the season.
I wash the syringes out with plain water after use and allow to air dry disassembled. When I used Alpha 7, I would lube the plunger with mineral or vegetable oil before sticking it back together.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
FH you better be careful or some of the older cowboys on here might start taking a pinch of vigartome before bedtime-put the little blue pill right out of business. You'll see 70 tear old guys from the city roaming your pastures tryting to find a mineral box to lick clean. It is a great product but just a little too far to get up here.
Thanks, FH. I always thought it was something like different individuals each having different individual tissue responses to irritating foreign agents. I'll try to work on that mineral program and see what I can do. Thanks. :wink:Faster horses said:
Faster horses
Well-known member
Sorry that Vigortone is not readily available to you, NR.
However, I have some little sample packets that I could send you
for personal use.
"A pinch is all it takes." :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :nod:
However, I have some little sample packets that I could send you
for personal use.
"A pinch is all it takes." :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :nod:
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Ohh not that far gone yet FH-creek water and sunshine is all I need lol.
Horseless
Well-known member
I thought is was somewhat normal to get a bump at the the injection site. It means the vaccine is working, its a natural body reaction. But if it takes along time to go away, it maybe that it was given wrong. If it is sub-Q you have got to it get it thru the skin. I have seen inexperience people do that. It ends up just in the layer of skin, they also put it in to deep.
I found out you put the experience people vaccinating at branding. Or give the kids some practice so they know how it feels when it is done right. Need sharp needles of the correct length.
I found out you put the experience people vaccinating at branding. Or give the kids some practice so they know how it feels when it is done right. Need sharp needles of the correct length.
Back to the subject at hand, seems like we have fewer injection site blemishes now than we used to, but I change needles and syringes more often than I used to. I cannot say without a doubt that it has anything to do with cahnging mineral, as I have changed mineral brands 3 times in the last 12 years. I have no problem seeing a knot on an animals neck, to me that is also an idicator that injections are being given in the right location. For awhile, the makers of Alpha 7 were saying to give the injections under the front legs or on the brisket, after the industry just spent untold millions getting people to give all injections in the neck.
sic 'em reds
Well-known member
Whats that antibiotic that they promote giving it behind the ear? Of all the places on the animal, what would be the advantage of giving there? I mean besides injection site blemishes. The way some throw their heads around tagging or tattooing, that would be the last place I would think of giving an injection.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Not too many restaurants serve up ear!! I think it's more a food safety thing than a rancher friendly injection site. I wonder why there isn't more work done on management systems that reduce antibiotic use instead of finding the next wonder drug.