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Paul will win Iowa

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cutterone said:
So is a law black or white or grey?

Often a fine line between whether a law is a white hat law or a black hat law- one thats good for some may be bad for others-...Many end up in a grey area- the reason you have Judges and Courts to interpret them- and make decisions on if they were violated or not- and the impacts/penalties that result...
 
Oldtimer said:
cutterone said:
So is a law black or white or grey?

Often a fine line between whether a law is a white hat law or a black hat law- one thats good for some may be bad for others-...Many end up in a grey area- the reason you have Judges and Courts to interpret them- and make decisions on if they were violated or not- and the impacts/penalties that result...

I like to drive 45 mph, guess that gives the guy who is doing 65 mph my extra mph EH oldtimner????
 
Oldtimer said:
cutterone said:
OT for you to say you are independant is like saying your only slightly pregnant! There are no true independants or there would not be parties. What this boils down to is you are either a conservative or a liberal. You are either for big government with lots of regualtions, a socialist ran state where ONLY the all knowing government can make all the decisions or you are for free markets, personal responsibilty, personal gain or loss, limited government as derived from the constitution. Just pick a side. I don't care which but if you pick liberal then you and other liberals have no say in who or what type of canidate the conservatives choose.

Well- you seem to think government is all just black and white- and one shoe fits all--- while there are many people that realize whats best for the country as a whole may not be that delineated- and lies more in a grey area....
Extremism- either way is very dangerous!!

so oldtimer is free markets, personal responsibilty, personal gain or loss,and limited government as derived from the constitution extreme in your opinion? how about unconstitutional usurpations of powers, is that extreme?
 
Lonecowboy said:
Oldtimer said:
cutterone said:
OT for you to say you are independant is like saying your only slightly pregnant! There are no true independants or there would not be parties. What this boils down to is you are either a conservative or a liberal. You are either for big government with lots of regualtions, a socialist ran state where ONLY the all knowing government can make all the decisions or you are for free markets, personal responsibilty, personal gain or loss, limited government as derived from the constitution. Just pick a side. I don't care which but if you pick liberal then you and other liberals have no say in who or what type of canidate the conservatives choose.

Well- you seem to think government is all just black and white- and one shoe fits all--- while there are many people that realize whats best for the country as a whole may not be that delineated- and lies more in a grey area....
Extremism- either way is very dangerous!!

so oldtimer is free markets, personal responsibilty, personal gain or loss,and limited government as derived from the constitution extreme in your opinion? how about unconstitutional usurpations of powers, is that extreme?

As shown with the Wallstreet fiasco of 08 and the too bigs to fail, MF Global, Eastern Livestock, etc etc,-- while some thrive off not having any government regulation, oversight, and policing- often many others suffer and pay the cost...And too often its the average Joe Blow that can't afford those losses...

Many believe that if the laws like Glass-Steagal that were meant to oversee banking/lending institutions had been left in place- the Bush Bust would never have occurred...But then the greedy bankers/lenders would not have been able to personally make millions $ before the Bust came...

So what was good for the Banker types- and those gambling with other folks money- lack of regulation- cost many of those folks their life savings....

And as was shown with the Wallstreet Fatcats and some of these others- they don't accept personal responsibility-- and when not being babysat can't keep their hands out of the cookie jar...
 
Oldtimer said:
And as was shown with the Wallstreet Fatcats and some of these others- they don't accept personal responsibility--
Maybe they're like you and John Wayne? Maybe they just feel like it's a sign of weakness to admit mistakes? Isn't that your philosophy? If it's good enough for you and The Duke, why would you have a problem with others doing it?
 
Have you ever read the Party platforms?
The Independants is the easiest to read, and focuses on the constitution and religious freedom, and the rights of the people.

The Republican has much of what the Independants have, with more detail on foreign relations and other things.

The Democrat platform is the only one that hardly mentions religion, and talks mostly about money. (Do they have a problem with love of money?)
 
Oldtimer said:
Many believe that if the laws like Glass-Steagal that were meant to oversee banking/lending institutions had been left in place- the Bush Bust would never have occurred...But then the greedy bankers/lenders would not have been able to personally make millions $ before the Bust came...

So what was good for the Banker types- and those gambling with other folks money- lack of regulation- cost many of those folks their life savings....

And as was shown with the Wallstreet Fatcats and some of these others- they don't accept personal responsibility-- and when not being babysat can't keep their hands out of the cookie jar...

Clinton signed the repeal of the Glass Steagal and Oldtimer blames the results on BUSH. :roll:

The Dems filibuster any attempts to rein in Fanny and Freddy and Oldtimer blames BUSH for the lack of action.

He blames Bush for the Dems failure after he voted for an incompetent DEMOCRAT leader and then he talks about not accepting PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. :shock: :roll:

We all know Oldtimer everything is BUSH'S FAULT. :roll:

BTW Oldtimer your last comment reminds me of who really can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar. Obama stands in front of the masses and claims Wall Street is to blame for everything and then turns around and prostitutes himself to those very same Wall Street Fat Cats at $30,000 a plate dinner to fund raise. Do you really believe he is promising them nothing for their millions in donation? Take a look at Solyndra and tell us he isn't promising them something IN RETURN. :roll:
 
Appears to me the Repubs are doing everything in their power to keep the CFTC and SEC from policing the Wallstreet Fatcats- and are ultimately being rewarded well in Wallstreet cash by those that want help keeping their license to steal !!!

Now in GOP crosshairs: Commodities
Pressure on the CFTC comes as donations from the securities industry tilt to the GOP.
| Reuters
CloseBy DAVID ROGERS | 11/30/11 11:43 PM EST Updated: 12/1/11 11:31 AM EST

Leery of mounting a frontal assault on Wall Street reforms, House Republicans have opted for a guerrilla-style war on the Commodity Futures Trading Commission even as it struggles with a new mandate to regulate the famously rich and wild swaps market.

Just Wednesday, the House Financial Services Committee approved the latest in a series of legislative efforts to challenge the CFTC's rule making on trading in derivatives. Despite its new responsibilities, the agency's budget has been effectively frozen at the insistence of the House GOP. And amid the MF Global investigation, Republicans wrote CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler on Monday, demanding that he turn over a broad array of relevant records as early as Wednesday.

All this comes as political contributions from the securities and investment industry, with a major stake in the derivatives market, have tilted dramatically to the GOP. And among the lead beneficiaries is House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), who collected tens of thousands of dollars from Wall Street partners in just a few days last June.


Campaign data collected by the nonprofit Center for Responsive Politics show that in the 2010 election cycle, securities and investment donors split their money almost evenly between congressional Republicans and Democrats. But the latest data reported by the center for the 2012 election cycle, show Republican congressional candidates already have collected $14 million from the industry, with donations to Democrats trailing at $9.2 million.

Boehner's enhanced status as speaker partly explains the recent increase in his donations. But in many cases, he's now getting help from Wall Street firms that gave little or nothing to the Ohio Republican two years ago.

As a result, his donations from individuals in the industry already top $568,000 — more than double what he received for the entire 2010 election cycle. His office refused to discuss what appears to have been a major Wall Street fundraising push in June, but the center's reports show about $167,000 in June contributions from dozens of individuals associated with Goldman Sachs, Cantor Fitzgerald, Paulson & Co. and Moore Capital Management.

Smaller and less attached to Wall Street, the CFTC is an easier target for Republicans than the Securities and Exchange Commission. And when the Dodd-Frank financial reform law assigned the CFTC its new role in the derivatives market — worth hundreds of trillions of dollars — it became a lightning rod for those who had opposed the law.

As early as June, the House voted to cut the agency's 2012 budget to $171.9 million — less than it had received in 2011 and just $3.1 million more than in 2010, before the reforms were enacted. And while the deal reached last month restores these funds, it was structured in a manner that could still force staff cuts unless further adjustments are made by Congress.

"Because it's politically untenable to call for repeal of Dodd-Frank, they are going under the table to try to prevent its enforcement," Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.) told POLITICO. And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the chief House author of the reforms, said he has been astonished by the tactics and GOP's success in carrying out its agenda without a lot of public attention.

"It's complicated, and people don't see the different pieces," Frank said. "But what they are doing is finding the weakest links."

Wednesday's markup before the House Financial Services panel illustrates this strategy. And by their own admission, the goal for Republicans is less to pass legislation than to pressure the CFTC commissioners.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69490.html#ixzz1fRdy1nxM
 
Bush bust blah blah blah Bush blah blah just cut and paste olstimers broken stuck record of not blaming anyone but Bush insert here :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
 
Oldtimer said:
Appears to me the Repubs are doing everything in their power to keep the CFTC and SEC from policing the Wallstreet Fatcats- and are ultimately being rewarded well in Wallstreet cash by those that want help keeping their license to steal !!!

Now in GOP crosshairs: Commodities
Pressure on the CFTC comes as donations from the securities industry tilt to the GOP.
| Reuters
CloseBy DAVID ROGERS | 11/30/11 11:43 PM EST Updated: 12/1/11 11:31 AM EST

Leery of mounting a frontal assault on Wall Street reforms, House Republicans have opted for a guerrilla-style war on the Commodity Futures Trading Commission even as it struggles with a new mandate to regulate the famously rich and wild swaps market.

Just Wednesday, the House Financial Services Committee approved the latest in a series of legislative efforts to challenge the CFTC's rule making on trading in derivatives. Despite its new responsibilities, the agency's budget has been effectively frozen at the insistence of the House GOP. And amid the MF Global investigation, Republicans wrote CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler on Monday, demanding that he turn over a broad array of relevant records as early as Wednesday.

All this comes as political contributions from the securities and investment industry, with a major stake in the derivatives market, have tilted dramatically to the GOP. And among the lead beneficiaries is House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), who collected tens of thousands of dollars from Wall Street partners in just a few days last June.


Campaign data collected by the nonprofit Center for Responsive Politics show that in the 2010 election cycle, securities and investment donors split their money almost evenly between congressional Republicans and Democrats. But the latest data reported by the center for the 2012 election cycle, show Republican congressional candidates already have collected $14 million from the industry, with donations to Democrats trailing at $9.2 million.

Boehner's enhanced status as speaker partly explains the recent increase in his donations. But in many cases, he's now getting help from Wall Street firms that gave little or nothing to the Ohio Republican two years ago.

As a result, his donations from individuals in the industry already top $568,000 — more than double what he received for the entire 2010 election cycle. His office refused to discuss what appears to have been a major Wall Street fundraising push in June, but the center's reports show about $167,000 in June contributions from dozens of individuals associated with Goldman Sachs, Cantor Fitzgerald, Paulson & Co. and Moore Capital Management.

Smaller and less attached to Wall Street, the CFTC is an easier target for Republicans than the Securities and Exchange Commission. And when the Dodd-Frank financial reform law assigned the CFTC its new role in the derivatives market — worth hundreds of trillions of dollars — it became a lightning rod for those who had opposed the law.

As early as June, the House voted to cut the agency's 2012 budget to $171.9 million — less than it had received in 2011 and just $3.1 million more than in 2010, before the reforms were enacted. And while the deal reached last month restores these funds, it was structured in a manner that could still force staff cuts unless further adjustments are made by Congress.

"Because it's politically untenable to call for repeal of Dodd-Frank, they are going under the table to try to prevent its enforcement," Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.) told POLITICO. And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the chief House author of the reforms, said he has been astonished by the tactics and GOP's success in carrying out its agenda without a lot of public attention.

"It's complicated, and people don't see the different pieces," Frank said. "But what they are doing is finding the weakest links."

Wednesday's markup before the House Financial Services panel illustrates this strategy. And by their own admission, the goal for Republicans is less to pass legislation than to pressure the CFTC commissioners.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69490.html#ixzz1fRdy1nxM

The Republicans want to pass something in the name of small business that unleashes the regulations on big corporations. Who in their right mind thinks that big corporations will police themselves for the benefit of America??? History shows they are just worried about corporate profits and #1 ceo benefits.
 
TSR said:
Oldtimer said:
Appears to me the Repubs are doing everything in their power to keep the CFTC and SEC from policing the Wallstreet Fatcats- and are ultimately being rewarded well in Wallstreet cash by those that want help keeping their license to steal !!!

Now in GOP crosshairs: Commodities
Pressure on the CFTC comes as donations from the securities industry tilt to the GOP.
| Reuters
CloseBy DAVID ROGERS | 11/30/11 11:43 PM EST Updated: 12/1/11 11:31 AM EST

Leery of mounting a frontal assault on Wall Street reforms, House Republicans have opted for a guerrilla-style war on the Commodity Futures Trading Commission even as it struggles with a new mandate to regulate the famously rich and wild swaps market.

Just Wednesday, the House Financial Services Committee approved the latest in a series of legislative efforts to challenge the CFTC's rule making on trading in derivatives. Despite its new responsibilities, the agency's budget has been effectively frozen at the insistence of the House GOP. And amid the MF Global investigation, Republicans wrote CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler on Monday, demanding that he turn over a broad array of relevant records as early as Wednesday.

All this comes as political contributions from the securities and investment industry, with a major stake in the derivatives market, have tilted dramatically to the GOP. And among the lead beneficiaries is House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), who collected tens of thousands of dollars from Wall Street partners in just a few days last June.


Campaign data collected by the nonprofit Center for Responsive Politics show that in the 2010 election cycle, securities and investment donors split their money almost evenly between congressional Republicans and Democrats. But the latest data reported by the center for the 2012 election cycle, show Republican congressional candidates already have collected $14 million from the industry, with donations to Democrats trailing at $9.2 million.

Boehner's enhanced status as speaker partly explains the recent increase in his donations. But in many cases, he's now getting help from Wall Street firms that gave little or nothing to the Ohio Republican two years ago.

As a result, his donations from individuals in the industry already top $568,000 — more than double what he received for the entire 2010 election cycle. His office refused to discuss what appears to have been a major Wall Street fundraising push in June, but the center's reports show about $167,000 in June contributions from dozens of individuals associated with Goldman Sachs, Cantor Fitzgerald, Paulson & Co. and Moore Capital Management.

Smaller and less attached to Wall Street, the CFTC is an easier target for Republicans than the Securities and Exchange Commission. And when the Dodd-Frank financial reform law assigned the CFTC its new role in the derivatives market — worth hundreds of trillions of dollars — it became a lightning rod for those who had opposed the law.

As early as June, the House voted to cut the agency's 2012 budget to $171.9 million — less than it had received in 2011 and just $3.1 million more than in 2010, before the reforms were enacted. And while the deal reached last month restores these funds, it was structured in a manner that could still force staff cuts unless further adjustments are made by Congress.

"Because it's politically untenable to call for repeal of Dodd-Frank, they are going under the table to try to prevent its enforcement," Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.) told POLITICO. And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the chief House author of the reforms, said he has been astonished by the tactics and GOP's success in carrying out its agenda without a lot of public attention.

"It's complicated, and people don't see the different pieces," Frank said. "But what they are doing is finding the weakest links."

Wednesday's markup before the House Financial Services panel illustrates this strategy. And by their own admission, the goal for Republicans is less to pass legislation than to pressure the CFTC commissioners.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69490.html#ixzz1fRdy1nxM

The Republicans want to pass something in the name of small business that unleashes the regulations on big corporations. Who in their right mind thinks that big corporations will police themselves for the benefit of America??? History shows they are just worried about corporate profits and #1 ceo benefits.



so what further regulations would you place on them, to make them follow the laws that have already been passed?
 

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