CattleArmy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2006
- Messages
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They are all red and possibly the same blood lines?
Wrong color but nice cattle!
Wrong color but nice cattle!
Photos - What do they have in common?
- Thread starter BRG
- Start date
RobertMac
Well-known member
In my experience, photos don't do cattle justice...I'm betting they are really impressive specimens in the flesh...feminine, deep bodied, good udders. I would guess commonality being same cow family.
BRG
Well-known member
A few of you were close/right. They are all out of the same sire, VGW Rattler 908. He is pretty darn consistant. Take a look at his photo.
Thanks for the compliments everyone!
Bryan
Thanks for the compliments everyone!
Bryan
movin' on
Well-known member
I guess I don't recall saying anything about a 90 lb. calf? I haven't pulled a calf in years so I really have no idea what my calves weigh. maybe 60 and maybe 90. I don't have any idea. I have cows that can lay down and have a calf. If a problem were to arise and one couldn't have a calf on her own, she would be removed from the herd. Angus cattle have calving ease built into them. I'm simply saying that let's just take that free lunch and eat it. Stop worrying about calving ease. It's already been worried about. When I buy an Angus bull, I know I'm buying a calving ease bull. I don't want a pencil-gutted slab-sided dairy looking calving ease bull....I want a bull to be a masculine looking stud. Give me someone who raises a manly looking Angus bull.....the calving ease will take care of itself.
High Plains
Well-known member
BRG, the Rattler bull sure does a nice job. His photo also shows him to be a good specimen.
I hate to divert from the appreciation that we're all sharing for those nice RED cattle in the photos, but I must digress for a minute. I agree with both Movin' On and Denny. Movin' On, you hit the nail on the head as far as traits of Black Angus cattle that tend to get overdone. Many ranchers will buy calving ease to the extreme. There just shouldn't be a high degree of concern about calving ease within the breed. But then again, it's a large breed population with a bunch of diversity. Just how low do we really need to get with that number? The first calf heifers need it for sure, but the cows? I think we get too crazy with that trait, as a producing public. High selling bulls at a lot of sales are the extremely low BW bulls. There's a number there in the middle that ought to work just fine. Marbling has also been a boon in late years. I, for one, cannot say a bad word about selecting for marbling. But, it should come only after the other important traits are in place. Instead, we have a bunch of numbers chasers that are delusional about what makes a good animal. I do think that marbling will always make some money, but it's a premium that comes only on top of production efficiency and cow function. There are plenty of sires in the business today that offer a combination. We do need muscle, growth and feed conversion.
Anyway, I've enjoyed this chat. Now, I'd just like to see someone smarter than me discuss the fact that smaller and smaller cows are not the salvation of our industry. This topic has been done to death on this forum, but I just read a certain breeder's newsletter and I'm becoming a bit tired of this focus on miniature cattle. There's a happy medium there and I think he's long ago missed that point. Talk to any feedlot and ask them if they want to purchase those genetics. Most of the feeders I talk to don't want anything to do with them.
Okay, I've reopened that can of worms and I don't expect to win any friends with my nonsense. I know some users of this forum are very successful with the ultra low-input type of cattle and I don't dispute that. I deal with ranchers and feeders everyday and I'm just a little puzzled by some of this. To me, the U.S. Meat Animal Research Center should be dedicating a few thousand head to understanding this issue completely and scientifically.
HP
I hate to divert from the appreciation that we're all sharing for those nice RED cattle in the photos, but I must digress for a minute. I agree with both Movin' On and Denny. Movin' On, you hit the nail on the head as far as traits of Black Angus cattle that tend to get overdone. Many ranchers will buy calving ease to the extreme. There just shouldn't be a high degree of concern about calving ease within the breed. But then again, it's a large breed population with a bunch of diversity. Just how low do we really need to get with that number? The first calf heifers need it for sure, but the cows? I think we get too crazy with that trait, as a producing public. High selling bulls at a lot of sales are the extremely low BW bulls. There's a number there in the middle that ought to work just fine. Marbling has also been a boon in late years. I, for one, cannot say a bad word about selecting for marbling. But, it should come only after the other important traits are in place. Instead, we have a bunch of numbers chasers that are delusional about what makes a good animal. I do think that marbling will always make some money, but it's a premium that comes only on top of production efficiency and cow function. There are plenty of sires in the business today that offer a combination. We do need muscle, growth and feed conversion.
Anyway, I've enjoyed this chat. Now, I'd just like to see someone smarter than me discuss the fact that smaller and smaller cows are not the salvation of our industry. This topic has been done to death on this forum, but I just read a certain breeder's newsletter and I'm becoming a bit tired of this focus on miniature cattle. There's a happy medium there and I think he's long ago missed that point. Talk to any feedlot and ask them if they want to purchase those genetics. Most of the feeders I talk to don't want anything to do with them.
Okay, I've reopened that can of worms and I don't expect to win any friends with my nonsense. I know some users of this forum are very successful with the ultra low-input type of cattle and I don't dispute that. I deal with ranchers and feeders everyday and I'm just a little puzzled by some of this. To me, the U.S. Meat Animal Research Center should be dedicating a few thousand head to understanding this issue completely and scientifically.
HP
RobertMac
Well-known member
????????????????
High Plains
Well-known member
RobertMac,
Perhaps I shouldn't have been so obtuse. I am talking about the idea that smaller and smaller and smaller cattle are better. That's it, pretty simple. Why must the pendulum swing from one extreme to the other? I'll answer my own question, it's a marketing ploy. Yes, it's based on a sensible concept, but taken to the ultimate extreme. The best job of marketing is done by those folks that are specialits. If you want carcass traits, go buy from this breeder. If you want growth, go to this breeder. If you want small-framed cattle, go to to this breeder. Let's not kid ourselves. None of these specialists have the corner on profitable cattle. It's the folks that can combine several economical traits in one package that have the cattle that the rest of the world needs.
HP
Perhaps I shouldn't have been so obtuse. I am talking about the idea that smaller and smaller and smaller cattle are better. That's it, pretty simple. Why must the pendulum swing from one extreme to the other? I'll answer my own question, it's a marketing ploy. Yes, it's based on a sensible concept, but taken to the ultimate extreme. The best job of marketing is done by those folks that are specialits. If you want carcass traits, go buy from this breeder. If you want growth, go to this breeder. If you want small-framed cattle, go to to this breeder. Let's not kid ourselves. None of these specialists have the corner on profitable cattle. It's the folks that can combine several economical traits in one package that have the cattle that the rest of the world needs.
HP
PureCountry
Well-known member
HP, this is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.......ALL seedstock breeders in ANY breed should be raising the type of cattle that thrive in their environment, PERIOD. Maybe that's a HerfxAng Baldy cow, maybe it's Brangus, Brahman, Santa's or Longhorns, maybe it's Galloways, Highlands, Welsh Blacks or Luings. As far as I'm concerned, the color, the shape and the size is NO indication of whether a cow CAN or CANNOT raise a live calf every year for 18-25 years.
In my part of the world, I can tell you what body type will PROBABLY thrive, but I can't look at any one heifer and say conclusively that she'll do it here, or anywhere else. The only true way to know, is to wait a few years, and see which ones are still standing around chewing their cud with a fat calf at side, after you've strictly culled for fertility, foot, udder, eye, and attitude problems. The ones that pass the tests are obviously the ones best suited for their region.
I had a guy once say to me, "I don't know why anyone ever said that these black cows eat less. The ones we bought are eating as much as the red cows." I had him show me his cows, and the black cows he referred to were black Simmentals, and his red cows were red Simmentals. All the same size, and same body type, but he expected different results because someone told him that the black cows he'd bought eat less. To me that's as ignorant as saying small cows are better than big cows. Use some common sense and let Mother Nature teach you what can and can't survive. She's been doing it for centuries, so she ought to have it figured out by now.
In my part of the world, I can tell you what body type will PROBABLY thrive, but I can't look at any one heifer and say conclusively that she'll do it here, or anywhere else. The only true way to know, is to wait a few years, and see which ones are still standing around chewing their cud with a fat calf at side, after you've strictly culled for fertility, foot, udder, eye, and attitude problems. The ones that pass the tests are obviously the ones best suited for their region.
I had a guy once say to me, "I don't know why anyone ever said that these black cows eat less. The ones we bought are eating as much as the red cows." I had him show me his cows, and the black cows he referred to were black Simmentals, and his red cows were red Simmentals. All the same size, and same body type, but he expected different results because someone told him that the black cows he'd bought eat less. To me that's as ignorant as saying small cows are better than big cows. Use some common sense and let Mother Nature teach you what can and can't survive. She's been doing it for centuries, so she ought to have it figured out by now.
RobertMac
Well-known member
HP,
I agree with Pure Country. The way I understand it, Kit has done the same as I have...quit propping up the cow herd with extra inputs...instead, making them perform on what the land has to offer...let Nature sort them out. My neighbors think I'm out of the Beefmaster business because all my big cows are gone. I think what the low input folks are finding out is that smaller framed, large volume cows are the ones that end up working for them...they're not miniature cattle.
Go back through Kit's archived newsletters...he has data that shows how his calves perform in the feed lot and on the hook.
Efficient cows produce efficient calves!
I agree with Pure Country. The way I understand it, Kit has done the same as I have...quit propping up the cow herd with extra inputs...instead, making them perform on what the land has to offer...let Nature sort them out. My neighbors think I'm out of the Beefmaster business because all my big cows are gone. I think what the low input folks are finding out is that smaller framed, large volume cows are the ones that end up working for them...they're not miniature cattle.
Go back through Kit's archived newsletters...he has data that shows how his calves perform in the feed lot and on the hook.
Efficient cows produce efficient calves!
High Plains
Well-known member
RobertMac and Pure,
I should start with an apology. I got a little wild and got negative with some of my comments. I edited my post to remove the negative breeder reference. That's not like me and I wish I had chewed on that a bit more before typing.
You folks know what kind of cattle should make you more money. I don't deny you that. I've seen your photos and read your comments enough to believe that. Guess I was reacting to what I see as an extreme marketing program that degrades all seedstock producers that don't think the same way. That's really it. I probably should have just settled down and enjoyed BRG's photos. After all, I pretty much assisted in hijacking the entire thread. Sorry about that!
Good day all!!
HP
I should start with an apology. I got a little wild and got negative with some of my comments. I edited my post to remove the negative breeder reference. That's not like me and I wish I had chewed on that a bit more before typing.
You folks know what kind of cattle should make you more money. I don't deny you that. I've seen your photos and read your comments enough to believe that. Guess I was reacting to what I see as an extreme marketing program that degrades all seedstock producers that don't think the same way. That's really it. I probably should have just settled down and enjoyed BRG's photos. After all, I pretty much assisted in hijacking the entire thread. Sorry about that!
Good day all!!
HP
PureCountry
Well-known member
No apology necessary HP. It's a forum for speaking your mind, and you did that. No worries.
I wanted to add that in my rant, it should be noted that I am talking about a low-input, grain-free cow/calf-grass yearling operation. If there are those out there making a profit on purple & pink polka-dotted 1700lb cows that have terrible feet, udders, eyes, and chase you up the fence everyday of the week, I say, congratulations. I will never say that my way is the only way to make money in this business, it's just what works best for us.
I wanted to add that in my rant, it should be noted that I am talking about a low-input, grain-free cow/calf-grass yearling operation. If there are those out there making a profit on purple & pink polka-dotted 1700lb cows that have terrible feet, udders, eyes, and chase you up the fence everyday of the week, I say, congratulations. I will never say that my way is the only way to make money in this business, it's just what works best for us.
per
Well-known member
Pure Country, are you getting 18 to25 years out of those hairy black monsters? I have lots of 10 to 15 year old cows but none older than 15.
PureCountry
Well-known member
The oldest cows I've ever had were 18, 19, 22 and 24. They all died of natural causes other than the 18yr old, we put down. They all had calves right up until their days ran out. Admittedly, they were all Angus cross cows. We've only had Galloways for 7 years, I think, and the oldest cow we have right now is 15.
movin' on
Well-known member
I think we might all owe BRG a little bit of an apology.
Very nice cattle, again, sir. Thanks for posting them. Post more if you've got them. I could look at cattle like them all day long.
Very nice cattle, again, sir. Thanks for posting them. Post more if you've got them. I could look at cattle like them all day long.
BRG
Well-known member
No big deal. I enjoy the conversation, however it gets started. Thanks again for the compliments.
High Plains
Well-known member
Indeed, BRG, those are some tremendous cattle. Thanks for sharing and I'm sure we'd all love to see more of your photos as they become available.
HP
HP
OldDog/NewTricks
Well-known member
"Size"
In 70 years I've seen many swings size, UP and DOWN, _ even the Ranch that Deliberately Stunted their Big Stock.
For Years, over and over, Size and Black have won-out...
PS
You have so good looking stock there.
In 70 years I've seen many swings size, UP and DOWN, _ even the Ranch that Deliberately Stunted their Big Stock.
For Years, over and over, Size and Black have won-out...
PS
You have so good looking stock there.
