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Playing BSE bingo????????MISS TAM.

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HAY MAKER

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Edmonton Sun


http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/Business/2005/05/27/1058350-sun.html





BUSINESS
Fri, May 27, 2005






Playing BSE bingo
NEIL WAUGH, EDMONTON SUN

Doug Horner has been tooting his mad cow horn lately. The Alberta Agriculture minister wants to leave the impression that the BSE crisis is behind us now.

He also wants citizens to believe the Alberta Tories finally have a handle on the calamity that has brought the province's cattle industry to its knees since Marwyn Peaster's heifer was detected with the disease more than two years ago.

Horner has been promoting a new identification program that can precisely verify the age of any Alberta beef animal. He talked about "blazing a trail" and how these smart ear tags will "open a window wide to export markets."

However, the only export market that matters is shipping live cattle into the United States. That market has been closed for two years because of the BSE scare. It will stay that way for a lot longer if Montana-based R-CALF has its way.

The protectionist outfit has filed a new motion in United States District Court asking a judge to issue a "summary judgment" to avoid a lengthy court battle.

"It's obvious to anyone who has reviewed the record that the United States Department of Agriculture does not have a reasoned or scientific justification for allowing cattle or beef from a BSE-affected nation into the United States," R-CALF president Leo McDonnell spat. Then he upped the ante by asking the judge to include banning Canadian boxed beef from entering the U.S.

And that was before word leaked out about 75 cattle carcasses found on a farm north of Mayerthorpe. The dead animals were apparently part of Horner's state-of-the-art BSE surveillance program. Some were in shallow pits, others were lying on the ground. Still others had been burned.

The discovery by a team from Alberta Agriculture's food safety division was made on Dec. 10 of last year. The incident would likely have stayed secret but for a member of Waugh's Warriors who sent me a memo dated March 10 from Horner's executive assistant Jason Krips to area Tory MLA George VanderBurg titled: "Cattle Carcasses near Mayerthorpe." In it, the dead animals were described as part of the "BSE surveillance program."

Neighbours, quite rightly, were more than a little hostile. VanderBurg was feeling the heat.

Alberta Agriculture's Cliff Munroe filled in some details.

"He was buying cattle from auction markets and different places that met the description of the BSE surveillance program," Munroe said. These are Ralph Klein's infamous "shoot, shovel and shut-up" cattle designated 4-D (as in downer, dead, distressed or diseased) in the government program.

"They split the heads and get a rebate from the government for turning in the brains of cattle that meet the requirements for the surveillance program," Monroe added. Then they apparently applied to the government for the $225-a-head bounty that the feds and the province were forced to bring in when ranchers failed to co-operate with the BSE testing program. That kind of failure is one of the key arguments that R-CALF is using to keep the border shut.

"Unfortunately, instead of disposing of them properly, he left about 75 in the field," Monroe continued. "That's when we got wind of it."

I'm sure you did, Cliff.

Up to 144 brains were sent to the government lab before the food safety inspectors showed up."He did it legally," Munroe insisted. The only concern the government had was to properly bury the rotting carcasses, which says a lot more about the quality of BSE testing in Canada than it does about the actions of the Mayerthorpe fellow playing BSE bingo.

Now a silly butt-covering flap has broken out between the province and the feds. Munroe said a report of the incident has been sent up to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

"It's up to them to deal with it."

But CFIA spokesman Paul Lackhoff countered: "My understanding is that Alberta Agriculture is doing an audit on the situation ... they're responsible."

Ray Martin, agriculture critic for the Alberta New Democrats, has a different view. "It's outrageous," Martin snapped. And hardly the way to impress the Yanks.

Yesterday Statistics Canada revealed that cattle prices crashed 24.9% below the five-year average during 2004. Receipts from international trade were zero, while Canadian farmers received "over $1.1 billion through BSE-related programs."

Worth every penny, I'm sure.



I believe this to be a crude way of gathering testing evidence at the least..........good luck
 

Bill

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Try keep up. This was dealt with yesterday.

Haymaker how many samples have you personally sent in for BSE testing, how was the sample obtained and how did you dispose of the carcasses.
 

HAY MAKER

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Bill said:
Try keep up. This was dealt with yesterday.

Haymaker how many samples have you personally sent in for BSE testing, how was the sample obtained and how did you dispose of the carcasses.

I missed it yesterday whats it posted as?............good luck
 

Bill

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Take your subject title, subtract Miss Tam, and look below for a thread started by ReaderII.

We are waiting for an answer to the testing questions I asked.

"Haymaker how many samples have you personally sent in for BSE testing, how was the sample obtained and how did you dispose of the carcasses."
 

HAY MAKER

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Bill said:
Take your subject title, subtract Miss Tam, and look below for a thread started by ReaderII.

We are waiting for an answer to the testing questions I asked.

"Haymaker how many samples have you personally sent in for BSE testing, how was the sample obtained and how did you dispose of the carcasses."

I would rather not say BILL,suffice it to say the testing is on going and adequate here in the good "OLE USA"...............good luck
 

Big Muddy rancher

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HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
Take your subject title, subtract Miss Tam, and look below for a thread started by ReaderII.

We are waiting for an answer to the testing questions I asked.

"Haymaker how many samples have you personally sent in for BSE testing, how was the sample obtained and how did you dispose of the carcasses."

I would rather not say BILL,suffice it to say the testing is on going and adequate here in the good "OLE USA"...............good luck


In english NONE ZIPPO ZERO ZILCH
 

Bill

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HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
Take your subject title, subtract Miss Tam, and look below for a thread started by ReaderII.

We are waiting for an answer to the testing questions I asked.

"Haymaker how many samples have you personally sent in for BSE testing, how was the sample obtained and how did you dispose of the carcasses."

I would rather not say BILL,suffice it to say the testing is on going and adequate here in the good "OLE USA"...............good luck

Yes, maybe this guy was doing things wrong or taking advantage of the system, I don't know. If he was I am sure there are many Americans that would do the same thing. Before people such as yourself cut and paste an article pointing out what you think (and I may be using that term loosely in your case) are inadequacies of the Canadian system are I would like to know if you have ever taken an animal you have raised and cared for since birth, looked after her for ten years and then went out and shot her. (We don't make 'em pets here but we do get attached to some of them.) Then because she is a 4-D you are actually committed to the system of establishing the prevelance of BSE within the Canadian herd, cut off her head and then take an axe to chop through the spinal column. After accomplishing that dig inside and obtain the appropriate amount of brain matter, seal it in a labeled bag and send it off for testing. You may recieve a call, letter or both from CFIA letting you know the results. Only then can you dispose of the carcass. All of this is done for the grand sum of $150 in some provinces and because of this process we are most definitely testing the very highest risk animals and exceeding the requirements placed upon us by the OIE.

(Sorry if this has grossed any of you out but this is a RANCHER's site and that is the harsh reality of it. If you don't know what's involved it's high time you learned!)

You may believe the R-Calf bullsh!t about inadequcies within the Canadian system but there's the process. I'll pose an easier question Haymaker. Do you know a single person who has knowingly had one of their 7-12 year old cows tested for BSE? I doubt it.
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Bill in Sask. we only get $75 in Alberta they get more because provincial government topped up what the Feds payed to kick start the program.
I do agree that even tho we don't make pets we do care for our cows , it is hard to shoot a cow thats been in your care for 10 years or more. Contrary to some peoples thinking it can be the humane thing to do but hurts no less.
 

HAY MAKER

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Bill said:
HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
Take your subject title, subtract Miss Tam, and look below for a thread started by ReaderII.

We are waiting for an answer to the testing questions I asked.

"Haymaker how many samples have you personally sent in for BSE testing, how was the sample obtained and how did you dispose of the carcasses."

I would rather not say BILL,suffice it to say the testing is on going and adequate here in the good "OLE USA"...............good luck

Yes, maybe this guy was doing things wrong or taking advantage of the system, I don't know. If he was I am sure there are many Americans that would do the same thing. Before people such as yourself cut and paste an article pointing out what you think (and I may be using that term loosely in your case) are inadequacies of the Canadian system are I would like to know if you have ever taken an animal you have raised and cared for since birth, looked after her for ten years and then went out and shot her. (We don't make 'em pets here but we do get attached to some of them.) Then because she is a 4-D you are actually committed to the system of establishing the prevelance of BSE within the Canadian herd, cut off her head and then take an axe to chop through the spinal column. After accomplishing that dig inside and obtain the appropriate amount of brain matter, seal it in a labeled bag and send it off for testing. You may recieve a call, letter or both from CFIA letting you know the results. Only then can you dispose of the carcass. All of this is done for the grand sum of $150 in some provinces and because of this process we are most definitely testing the very highest risk animals and exceeding the requirements placed upon us by the OIE.

(Sorry if this has grossed any of you out but this is a RANCHER's site and that is the harsh reality of it. If you don't know what's involved it's high time you learned!)

You may believe the R-Calf BS about inadequcies within the Canadian system but there's the process. I'll pose an easier question Haymaker.
Do you know a single person who has knowingly had one of their 7-12 year old cows tested for BSE? I doubt it.

Like I said in an earlier post you make a better comic than you do a rancher.I dont keep cattle that hit the 4D profile why dont you learn how to ranch before you start bragging on your self blow hard.........good luck
 

Tam

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HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
HAY MAKER said:
I would rather not say BILL,suffice it to say the testing is on going and adequate here in the good "OLE USA"...............good luck

Yes, maybe this guy was doing things wrong or taking advantage of the system, I don't know. If he was I am sure there are many Americans that would do the same thing. Before people such as yourself cut and paste an article pointing out what you think (and I may be using that term loosely in your case) are inadequacies of the Canadian system are I would like to know if you have ever taken an animal you have raised and cared for since birth, looked after her for ten years and then went out and shot her. (We don't make 'em pets here but we do get attached to some of them.) Then because she is a 4-D you are actually committed to the system of establishing the prevelance of BSE within the Canadian herd, cut off her head and then take an axe to chop through the spinal column. After accomplishing that dig inside and obtain the appropriate amount of brain matter, seal it in a labeled bag and send it off for testing. You may recieve a call, letter or both from CFIA letting you know the results. Only then can you dispose of the carcass. All of this is done for the grand sum of $150 in some provinces and because of this process we are most definitely testing the very highest risk animals and exceeding the requirements placed upon us by the OIE.

(Sorry if this has grossed any of you out but this is a RANCHER's site and that is the harsh reality of it. If you don't know what's involved it's high time you learned!)

You may believe the R-Calf BS about inadequcies within the Canadian system but there's the process. I'll pose an easier question Haymaker.
Do you know a single person who has knowingly had one of their 7-12 year old cows tested for BSE? I doubt it.

Like I said in an earlier post you make a better comic than you do a rancher.I dont keep cattle that hit the 4D profile why dont you learn how to ranch before you start bragging on your self blow hard.........good luck

Haymaker have you ever had a cow fall and hurt herself? I know you probably don't have much ICE in Texas but what about mud have you had a cow fall in the mud and not survive. She would be a 4D. Have you ever had a cow hurt during calving? she would be a 4D. We have all heard about how the US ranchers don't keep their cows until they are in the 4D catagory but come on who do you think you are fooling? I don't care what kind of rancher you are if you have cattle you are going to have at least one die unexpectedly or one hurt during calving sometime. They would be in the 4D catagory and would have the vet called in Canada would the vet be called at your place? Maybe if I had sent you the tags you asked for, you wouldn't be so reluctant to call a vet Haymaker. :wink:
 

Bill

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Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
Yes, maybe this guy was doing things wrong or taking advantage of the system, I don't know. If he was I am sure there are many Americans that would do the same thing. Before people such as yourself cut and paste an article pointing out what you think (and I may be using that term loosely in your case) are inadequacies of the Canadian system are I would like to know if you have ever taken an animal you have raised and cared for since birth, looked after her for ten years and then went out and shot her. (We don't make 'em pets here but we do get attached to some of them.) Then because she is a 4-D you are actually committed to the system of establishing the prevelance of BSE within the Canadian herd, cut off her head and then take an axe to chop through the spinal column. After accomplishing that dig inside and obtain the appropriate amount of brain matter, seal it in a labeled bag and send it off for testing. You may recieve a call, letter or both from CFIA letting you know the results. Only then can you dispose of the carcass. All of this is done for the grand sum of $150 in some provinces and because of this process we are most definitely testing the very highest risk animals and exceeding the requirements placed upon us by the OIE.

(Sorry if this has grossed any of you out but this is a RANCHER's site and that is the harsh reality of it. If you don't know what's involved it's high time you learned!)

You may believe the R-Calf BS about inadequcies within the Canadian system but there's the process. I'll pose an easier question Haymaker.

Like I said in an earlier post you make a better comic than you do a rancher.I dont keep cattle that hit the 4D profile why dont you learn how to ranch before you start bragging on your self blow hard.........good luck

Haymaker have you ever had a cow fall and hurt herself? I know you probably don't have much ICE in Texas but what about mud have you had a cow fall in the mud and not survive. She would be a 4D. Have you ever had a cow hurt during calving? she would be a 4D. We have all heard about how the US ranchers don't keep their cows until they are in the 4D catagory but come on who do you think you are fooling? I don't care what kind of rancher you are if you have cattle you are going to have at least one die unexpectedly or one hurt during calving sometime. They would be in the 4D catagory and would have the vet called in Canada would the vet be called at your place? Maybe if I had sent you the tags you asked for, you wouldn't be so reluctant to call a vet Haymaker. :wink:
Cancer eye will condemn a cow to a 4D as well.
 

TimH

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Like my Old Grandad used to say..." If you got livestock, you're gonna have DEADSTOCK!!!" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
A

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Big Muddy rancher said:
Bill in Sask. we only get $75 in Alberta they get more because provincial government topped up what the Feds payed to kick start the program.

Big Muddy- How many are turning in deadstock for that $75 and how many are just letting the coyotes do the testing....

I was visiting with a SK resident a few days back that said it would be a cold day before he calls any vet-- and that none of his friends or neighbors are either....Said that the next Canadian found turning in a positive will be rode out of the country on a rail- so it darn sure isn't going to be him......Now that sounds more believable of how the real world operates.....
 

Murgen

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Like my Old Grandad used to say..." If you got livestock, you're gonna have DEADSTOCK!!!"

Kinda like equipment, if you're not using it, it never breaks down!
 

Murgen

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I was visiting with a SK resident a few days back that said it would be a cold day before he calls any vet-- and that none of his friends or neighbors are either....Said that the next Canadian found turning in a positive will be rode out of the country on a rail- so it darn sure isn't going to be him......Now that sounds more believable of how the real world operates.....

OT, do you have the link to this. I think you forgot to post it! :shock:
 

don

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ot: I was visiting with a SK resident a few days back that said it would be a cold day before he calls any vet-- and that none of his friends or neighbors are either....Said that the next Canadian found turning in a positive will be rode out of the country on a rail- so it darn sure isn't going to be him......Now that sounds more believable of how the real world operates.....

so based on this poll would you then expect no 4d animals would be tested in saskatchewan? if so how do you reconcile that with the number that have been tested? i don't have the number now but i can get it monday and we'll see how accurate you are. maybe you are just visinting with people like minded to yourself.
 
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Murgen said:
I was visiting with a SK resident a few days back that said it would be a cold day before he calls any vet-- and that none of his friends or neighbors are either....Said that the next Canadian found turning in a positive will be rode out of the country on a rail- so it darn sure isn't going to be him......Now that sounds more believable of how the real world operates.....

OT, do you have the link to this. I think you forgot to post it! :shock:

Murgen- their are still a few Canadians that come south of the border-- very few compared to 10 years ago--but that was before NAFTA when they could come down and load their trucks up with cheap beer and take back......
 

Murgen

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I don't know too many Canadians that buy beer down there, up here we can get bottled water at any convenience store. I guess they would need to buy lots to get the same effect! :)
 

Bill

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Oldtimer said:
Murgen said:
I was visiting with a SK resident a few days back that said it would be a cold day before he calls any vet-- and that none of his friends or neighbors are either....Said that the next Canadian found turning in a positive will be rode out of the country on a rail- so it darn sure isn't going to be him......Now that sounds more believable of how the real world operates.....

OT, do you have the link to this. I think you forgot to post it! :shock:

Murgen- their are still a few Canadians that come south of the border-- very few compared to 10 years ago--but that was before NAFTA when they could come down and load their trucks up with cheap beer and take back......

There is a heck of a lot less Canadians going down after May 20 2003 than prior to. Has nothing to do with Nafta or light beer. Any one in the real world should be able to figure that one out.

Haymaker obviously doesn't know a single American who has knowingly had an animal tested for BSE. Do you Oldtimer?
 

Tam

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Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Bill in Sask. we only get $75 in Alberta they get more because provincial government topped up what the Feds payed to kick start the program.

Big Muddy- How many are turning in deadstock for that $75 and how many are just letting the coyotes do the testing....

I was visiting with a SK resident a few days back that said it would be a cold day before he calls any vet-- and that none of his friends or neighbors are either....Said that the next Canadian found turning in a positive will be rode out of the country on a rail- so it darn sure isn't going to be him......Now that sounds more believable of how the real world operates.....

Maybe this Sk Resident should look at what will happen if we don't do the testing now that we have found BSE in the Canadian herd. Finding an additional case will be earier on us than if we don't do the testing. We are at Minimal risk because of the precautions we take and BSE surveillance is one of those precautions. We don't make our quota in testing and we loss our minimal risk status even if there is no other cases found.

There may be some ranchers reluctant to turn over their dead for what ever reason but Looks to me as if there are Canadian Ranchers that realize the results of not testing and are turning over their 4D's. As of May 25, Canada has already tested 27245 head for 2005 and our Quota is what Oldtimer and Haymaker. wasn't it 30,000 looks like we will make this years quota with eaze. Maybe even with 6 1/2 months to spare, :p

You know I find it funny that when the Canadian's test number went down in Jan because of normal culling practices from Decembers record high we heard all about how Canada had decided to decrease testing number but we never heard anything from R-CALF on how maybe they were wrong when in April Canada tested over 7000 head just like we did in DEC. :???:


Hey in the conversation Oldtimer did you tell the Sk resident how many you have turned over?
 

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