Poll on R-CALF stands

[Tam]

Dennis McDonald was quoted in a North Dakota paper as saying this about BSE,

"If there is a positive case again in the U.S., we as a beef producing nation, shouldn't market beef in cattle older that 20 months".

Dennis McDonald is one of R-CALF's founding members and their current Trade Committee Chairman and the President of Montana Cattlemens.[


This is a quote from Leo McDonnell from his Nebraska radio broadcast.

"We know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, Don't worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will quarantee they will keep eating beef".

Does R-CALF leadership talk before they make statements to the media as it looks as if Leo and Dennis are on opposite sides of the table with these two quotes.

 

[jigs]

could it be that two people have different opinions??? that is what it looks like to me!

I asume IF we have a BSE out break in the USA, the USDA will mandate the course of action........of course if it is traced back to Canada (again) then it is really a mute point, and the border remains closed for a bit longer

 

[Anonymous]

Ah what's wrong Hat?

Can't face the reality of your beloved R-CULT leaders contradicting themselves again?

The truth is, R-CULT has absolutely no integrity. They say whatever they think will fit that situation at that moment. Doesn't matter if it directly contradicts what they said yesterday. More producers are figuring it out every day.


Flip: "The packers don't care about food safety, they only care about making money"

Flop: "We have the safest beef in the world"


Flip: "USDA doesn't care about food safety"

Flop: "Let's compare the number of cattle USDA has tested compared to Canada."


Flip: "Don't consumers have a right to know where their beef comes from"

Flop: "Don't burden me with traceback"


COME ON HAT, GIVE ME YOUR BEST SHEEP BLAT......

"BAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH"




~SH~

 

[Tam]

Dennis McDonald was quoted in a North Dakota paper as saying this about BSE,

"If there is a positive case again in the U.S., we as a beef producing nation, shouldn't market beef in cattle older that 20 months".

Dennis McDonald is one of R-CALF's founding members and their current Trade Committee Chairman and the President of Montana Cattlemens.[


This is a quote from Leo McDonnell from his Nebraska radio broadcast.

"We know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, Don't worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will quarantee they will keep eating beef".

Does R-CALF leadership talk before they make statements to the media as it looks as if Leo and Dennis are on opposite sides of the table with these two quotes.

You Canadians reassure your consumers every day that you are feeding them (in your opinion) the safest beef, but when a US rancher reassures the US consumer he is out of line. I'm sick of your crap Tam, plumb sick of it.

Did I hit a nerve Hat. The difference between what we do is we reassure our consumers by telling them what we have done to protect them and we back it up with a records to prove our claims. Unlike R-CALF that tells your consumers that your beef is the safest in the world and that you are the only country in the world to ever put firewalls in place prior to finding a case of BSE. Just what has Canada been doing Hat. We implemented the same rules in 1989 and the same feed ban in 1997 but we improved ours in 1998, Then we implemented a national ID system so we could trace our herd if we ever had a reportable disease case like BSE Our firewalls that we put in place did as they were suppose to in keeping the infected cows out of our food chain. We have laws saying we can't even haul a downer to a slaughter plant and if they do get there they are condemned as the MAY 2003 cow was. But to listen to your R-CALF leader the firewalls we put in place made this into a BIG ISSUE but the lesser firewalls you put in place will make this a NON-ISSUE in the US. Talk about talking out of both sides of your month. R-CALF doesn't have a policy to follow they just say what ever comes to mind and these two guys proved it.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmmmmmm R-Calf membership is growing everyday. So that would make you a liar.

1679 new members in January alone- 413 from South Dakota-- they led all the states... Pretty soon ~SH~ will be such a minority he will be able to call in Jesse Jackson for support........ :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Dennis McDonald was quoted in a North Dakota paper as saying this about BSE,

"If there is a positive case again in the U.S., we as a beef producing nation, shouldn't market beef in cattle older that 20 months".

Dennis McDonald is one of R-CALF's founding members and their current Trade Committee Chairman and the President of Montana Cattlemens.[


This is a quote from Leo McDonnell from his Nebraska radio broadcast.

"We know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, Don't worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will quarantee they will keep eating beef".

Does R-CALF leadership talk before they make statements to the media as it looks as if Leo and Dennis are on opposite sides of the table with these two quotes.

Tam- Why don't you include R-CALF's official membership stance and policy they have taken since day one in your poll? I'm sure it was an overslight since you aren't bias

 

[Tam]

could it be that two people have different opinions??? that is what it looks like to me!

I asume IF we have a BSE out break in the USA, the USDA will mandate the course of action........of course if it is traced back to Canada (again) then it is really a mute point, and the border remains closed for a bit longer

The funny thing is that both these guys were talking to these groups and MEDIA as spokesmen for R-CALF. What is the true stand of R-CALF, does anyone know including their leadership.

The USDA is trying to mandate policy changes to protect the U.S industry but look what happens. They wind up in court and they have to fight the whole industry to get a workable ID system in place. If R-CALF hadn't got "M"ID taken out of the "M"COOL bill you would of had something going but they didn't want to be burdened with proving where your beef comes from only the imported. You still have those that think a state by state brand system should work for a NATIONAL ID SYSTEM.

If the next case is born and bred US you have had it. Because the US system will not fare as well as the Canadian system did. Remember you have a U.S. government investigation proving your feed system has not been complied to. Not to mention the firewalls that failed you in your time of need. No tracing ability And the biggest of all a beef organization claiming a country with higher standards, beef is unsafe and is a risk to consumer health. You may wish for the border to stay closed a bit longer but remember that the longer this border stays closed the longer yours will when BSE is found in the US herd.

 

[rancher]

Tam, when did you start IDing? How old were these cows that had BSE? How can you track them with your new fangle ID when you didn't have it when they were born? Correct me if I am wrong. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

could it be that two people have different opinions??? that is what it looks like to me!

I asume IF we have a BSE out break in the USA, the USDA will mandate the course of action........of course if it is traced back to Canada (again) then it is really a mute point, and the border remains closed for a bit longer

The funny thing is that both these guys were talking to these groups and MEDIA as spokesmen for R-CALF. What is the true stand of R-CALF, does anyone know including their leadership.

The USDA is trying to mandate policy changes to protect the U.S industry but look what happens. They wind up in court and they have to fight the whole industry to get a workable ID system in place. If R-CALF hadn't got "M"ID taken out of the "M"COOL bill you would of had something going but they didn't want to be burdened with proving where your beef comes from only the imported. You still have those that think a state by state brand system should work for a NATIONAL ID SYSTEM.

If the next case is born and bred US you have had it. Because the US system will not fare as well as the Canadian system did. Remember you have a U.S. government investigation proving your feed system has not been complied to. Not to mention the firewalls that failed you in your time of need. No tracing ability And the biggest of all a beef organization claiming a country with higher standards, beef is unsafe and is a risk to consumer health. You may wish for the border to stay closed a bit longer but remember that the longer this border stays closed the longer yours will when BSE is found in the US herd.

And Tam that is one reason R-CALF as a group has said from day one, that if BSE is found domestically we should test all to maintain consumer confidence and to find the extent of the disease so that it can be eliminated-- they also asked for the USDA to demand Canada do the same.... But since that wasn't done we still have this huge grey area-- what is the extent of infection in Canada? how many more infected Canadian cattle are there? and why are they showing up infected?-- This coupled with USDA's wishy washy backing of the packers and AMI, which made them throw out most of FDA's and OIE's feed and health recommendations have left the US open to herd infection problems from taking cattle or beef from higher risk areas...First off consumers should have the choice on eating Canadian beef or not--It should all be labeled and identified thru the food chain-- But there are not only human health issues, but threat of infection to the US herd because of USDA's lack enforcement of BSE prevention measures....

As the wife of a rancher would you feel safe taking cows from a higher risk country if Canada still fed chicken litter, allowed table scraps into rendering feed products, allowed blood products to be used in ruminant feed, and had no way of testing for the presence of ruminant renderings in feed products? I don't think so....

Our battle isn't with the Canadian rancher as much as it is the policies being shoved down our throat by the packer influenced USDA, the AMI that could care less about the safety of cattle in the US or Canada because their members already are well established thru out the world, and a World Trade Organization that is a joke...... But I forgot, Canadians all love the multinational packers and bend over and thank them at every convienience :???:

 

[Anonymous]

OT,

I didn't say that R-CULT and the LMA (their cloned brother) were not very good at getting their lies and misinformation to the masses.

Heck it's rather convenient for Pat Goggins to print this garbage in the WLR and for the South Dakota Livestock Marketing Police to spread the same garbage on the radio.

Every time there is a debate situation where the R-CULTers are challenged to back their baseless allegations, truth seekers start to see them for the lying deceptive outfit they really are when they divert, deny, discredit, and deceive to avoid the truth.

The majority of producers will still side with the truth when presented with both sides of the debate.

As far as being a minority, unlike you OT, I don't need a support group when I have facts and truth on my side.

I'll let you head nodders support lies about Canada still slaughtering downer cows. Let your lack of conscience be your guide.


~SH~

 

[Tam]

Tam, when did you start IDing? How old were these cows that had BSE? How can you track them with your new fangle ID when you didn't have it when they were born? Correct me if I am wrong. :wink:

Canada started their system in the late 90's and it was made mandatory in 2000 or 2001. Any animal being marketed has to have an ID tag if it is an older cow the CFIA at least has a place to start and the rancher would likely know where he got her if he hadn't raised her himself. Tell me rancher if a cow comes from a state that doesn't even have you old fangled brand system how do you know where she came from? Correct me if I'M wrong but couldn't the same brand be registered in every state the does have a brand registary. Can you tell me how many States don't brand or don't register brands? :wink: In a very few years every animal that was born before the ID system was implement will be gone and we will only have ID cattle left and now we can age verify those cattle that are going to slaughter. How many more years will it be before the U.S. can say that Rancher. We have had ours up and running for 5 years so you are at least 5 years behind if you implemented "M"ID today but you are still implementing voluntary pilot projects.

 

[Tam]

Our battle isn't with the Canadian rancher as much as it is the policies being shoved down our throat by the packer influenced USDA,

So why is R-CALF telling US consumer that if the US imports OTM meat from Canada they will be risk their lives? Why is R-CALF telling them if you import OTM meat your feed system will be put in danger? There is no SRM's being shipped with OTM meat, they are removed in Canada. You want everyone to believe your fight is with the USDA but it is our beef you are bad monthing and trying to destroy consumer confidence in so they will only buy your meat that is coming from cattle that still eat chicken litter. and plate scrappings. If You fear your industry then do something about your industry and stop trying to destroy ours in the process. Go ahead Oldtimer label the meat and tell the consumers the truth that you fear your system and you think the USDA doesn't care about food safety and neither do the packers and see whos meat the consumers will be eating as we are telling them we trust our system to raise and process safe meat.

 

[Anonymous]

Our battle isn't with the Canadian rancher as much as it is the policies being shoved down our throat by the packer influenced USDA,

So why is R-CALF telling US consumer that if the US imports OTM meat from Canada they will be risk their lives? Why is R-CALF telling them if you import OTM meat your feed system will be put in danger? There is no SRM's being shipped with OTM meat, they are removed in Canada. You want everyone to believe your fight is with the USDA but it is our beef you are bad monthing and trying to destroy consumer confidence in so they will only buy your meat that is coming from cattle that still eat chicken litter. and plate scrappings. If You fear your industry then do something about your industry and stop trying to destroy ours in the process. Go ahead Oldtimer label the meat and tell the consumers the truth that you fear your system and you think the USDA doesn't care about food safety and neither do the packers and see whos meat the consumers will be eating as we are telling them we trust our system to raise and process safe meat.

Tam- Are you sure all prions are removed with SRM removal? Theories have came forward lately showing that prions are in cattle under 30 months- in muscle meats- in internal organs... Because of these theories and the huge grey area, importing cattle or beef from Canada- a higher risk country-not only puts US consumer in a higher risk status, but it also puts our US cattle herd in a higher risk because of USDA's failure to follow the BSE prevention recommendations.... R-CALF has and is fighting USDA on all these issues and have received support from NFU and AFB- but the lobbying of the packers, AMI, and NCBA have kept them from being put into place-- FDA's recommended chicken litter rule has been stalled, same with plate scraps and blood products-- Mandatory COOL has been delayed- prior in place border rules have been illegally circumvented by the USDA without explanation- USDA has been chastised by GAO because of its ineptness... R-CALF, which has basically became the only organization representing the cattle producer, had no alternative but to take this to court and show the inconsistency and "no science" behind it-- That is what has led to a United States Federal District Judge ordering the border closing and a majority of US Senators voting to agree that USDA does not have its act together........

Maybe Canadian producers could help by lobbying the USDA and US administration to put into effect the FDA's and OIEs rules and to implement a Mandatory COOL law.... It would remove the majority of the teeth behind the Judges and Senates ruling.........

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "R-CALF has and is fighting USDA on all these issues and have received support from NFU and AFB-"

WRONG AGAIN OT!

The "liberal" NFU may support R-CULT but not the "conservative" AFB.

AFB does not support R-CULT no way no how!


OT: "R-CALF, which has basically became the only organization representing the cattle producer,"

R-CULT only poorly represents the "blaming" isolationist segment of the U.S. cattle producers.

NCBA members far outnumber R-CULT members.


When will you ever start telling the truth OT!


~SH~

 

[TimH]

Oltimer(in another thread) quote- "jigs- I agree... Its time we in the US started deciding our policies rather than....."

followed by this........

Oldtimer- " Maybe Canadian producers could help by lobbying the USDA and US administration to put into effect the FDA's and OIEs rules and to...."

WOW!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :wink:

 

[Tam]

Oldtimer

Theories have came forward lately showing that prions are in cattle under 30 months- in muscle meats- in internal organs... Because of these theories and the huge grey area, importing cattle or beef from Canada- a higher risk country-not only puts US consumer in a higher risk status, but it also puts our US cattle herd in a higher risk

But Prusiner's team found prions in the hind leg muscles of mice whose brains had been injected with BSE-like prions. He reported his results in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Complete blank
The new twist in the story came on Wednesday, when French government scientists announced that they had drawn a complete blank when they looked for prions in muscles from several BSE or scrapie-infected animals including mice, sheep, goats and cows.

"The tests proved negative in the search for pathological prions in the set of samples, including those taken from the hind limb muscles," says the AFSSA, France's food safety watchdog.

Reassuringly, tests on peripheral nerves and lymphoid tissue in the cow also came up negative, suggesting that meat will be safe even if it contains this type of tissue. "These observations are consistent with the findings made to date concerning the distribution of the infectivity linked to BSE in cows," they say.

The researchers detected prions with two tests. The first, an "ELISA" test, detects antibodies made by animals against prions. The second "Western blotting" test isolates and identifies fragments of the prion protein itself.

Now can you bring anything that can prove your so called theories of BSE being found in muscle meat from under thirty month old cattle. Or is this just more fear mongering on your part. And you have been told a hundred times you and R-CALF are the only ones that think Canada is a HIGHER risk country the rest of the world thinks as the US and Canada as both minimal risk. But that just doesn't fit your agenda does it Oldtimer. Why would anyone bad mouth the beef from a country that is in the same risk catagory. so Canada has to be a higher risk for your lies to work.

Maybe Canadian producers could help by lobbying the USDA and US administration to put into effect the FDA's and OIEs rules and to implement a Mandatory COOL law.... It would remove the majority of the teeth behind the Judges and Senates ruling.........

I thought Canadians were to stay the He[[ out of the U.S. beef industry business as you didn't need our help. We were told to stay North of the border and clean up our mess and you would deal with your own problems. What would take the bite out of the Senators is if they didn't have to worry about backing a lame horse bill so they could get support from something they want to get passed that is just as lame. And the Judges bite would be less if he didn't have two Montana Senators to thank for his job.

 

[Anonymous]

Oldtimer

Theories have came forward lately showing that prions are in cattle under 30 months- in muscle meats- in internal organs... Because of these theories and the huge grey area, importing cattle or beef from Canada- a higher risk country-not only puts US consumer in a higher risk status, but it also puts our US cattle herd in a higher risk

But Prusiner's team found prions in the hind leg muscles of mice whose brains had been injected with BSE-like prions. He reported his results in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Complete blank
The new twist in the story came on Wednesday, when French government scientists announced that they had drawn a complete blank when they looked for prions in muscles from several BSE or scrapie-infected animals including mice, sheep, goats and cows.

"The tests proved negative in the search for pathological prions in the set of samples, including those taken from the hind limb muscles," says the AFSSA, France's food safety watchdog.

Reassuringly, tests on peripheral nerves and lymphoid tissue in the cow also came up negative, suggesting that meat will be safe even if it contains this type of tissue. "These observations are consistent with the findings made to date concerning the distribution of the infectivity linked to BSE in cows," they say.

The researchers detected prions with two tests. The first, an "ELISA" test, detects antibodies made by animals against prions. The second "Western blotting" test isolates and identifies fragments of the prion protein itself.

Now can you bring anything that can prove your so called theories of BSE being found in muscle meat from under thirty month old cattle. Or is this just more fear mongering on your part. And you have been told a hundred times you and R-CALF are the only ones that think Canada is a HIGHER risk country the rest of the world thinks as the US and Canada as both minimal risk. But that just doesn't fit your agenda does it Oldtimer. Why would anyone bad mouth the beef from a country that is in the same risk catagory. so Canada has to be a higher risk for your lies to work.

Maybe Canadian producers could help by lobbying the USDA and US administration to put into effect the FDA's and OIEs rules and to implement a Mandatory COOL law.... It would remove the majority of the teeth behind the Judges and Senates ruling.........

I thought Canadians were to stay the He[[ out of the U.S. beef industry business as you didn't need our help. We were told to stay North of the border and clean up our mess and you would deal with your own problems. What would take the bite out of the Senators is if they didn't have to worry about backing a lame horse bill so they could get support from something they want to get passed that is just as lame. And the Judges bite would be less if he didn't have two Montana Senators to thank for his job.

Tam- You and I will never agree on this-- but I and many statisticians and scientists can not see how a country with 5% as many cattle as the US- but with 4 origin cows when the US has none- can be the same risk factor...It just isn't so....And you are wrong about the whole world agreeing on it-- the whole world hasn't and can't even decide on whether to approve the OIE's rule change proposals- Japan says now it won't- half the European countries disagree with it.....

As far as what Canadians do- I could care less- but since you are always tying to tell us how to run our industry anyway--Mine was just a suggestion on a way you could work positively to get the border reopened-- but if you'd rather sit and cuss Americans and blame R-CALF for everything, fine....... :?