Poll...Should meat packers be banned from owning livestock?

[PPRM]

The very last-thing producers need to be, are meat packers!!!!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Expound on that thought Ben......

I have seen a lot of producer based companies and the biggest problem is the tendency to run a processing business with goals that only relate to the farm. I have seen a few that run the processing as a business rather than "Subsidy Carrier" for te farm....

Any Food Processing is tough business....Thoughts that there are tons of profits that have been held out on you will get you introuble. But run it as a business and the odds for success are a lot better,

PPRM

 

[RobertMac]

The very last-thing producers need to be, are meat packers!!!!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I certainly don't want to be one...but we, producers, had better support the independent meat packers we have and feed the growing market of consumers that want more than cheap food. The door is open....

 

[katrina]

The very last-thing producers need to be, are meat packers!!!!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I have to respectfully disagree with that Ben...... We as producers have to know what our product is doing on the kill floor.. We have to know how our product dresses out and the % of product per animal... We also should know the quality........

 

[mrj]

Katrina, why can't you get that information, no matter who processes your cattle? Surely there are people getting it even if they don't own the cattle thru the feeding phase. I will say that a grader admitted he may have given some of ours the benefit of the doubt because my spouse was standing there as he graded them........and said that can go either way depending on the mood of the inspector/grader at any given time. That was one of the large packers, and a few years ago. Maybe five or less. Not very scientific, but till we get a better system, it's what we have to live with.

mrj

 

[katrina]

Katrina, why can't you get that information, no matter who processes your cattle? Surely there are people getting it even if they don't own the cattle thru the feeding phase. I will say that a grader admitted he may have given some of ours the benefit of the doubt because my spouse was standing there as he graded them........and said that can go either way depending on the mood of the inspector/grader at any given time. That was one of the large packers, and a few years ago. Maybe five or less. Not very scientific, but till we get a better system, it's what we have to live with.

mrj

I guess I don't understand what point you are making mrj....

 

[flounder]

re--Should meat packers be banned from owning livestock?




CONCENTRATION OF AGRICULTURAL MARKETS April 2007


BEEF PACKERS CR4 = 83.5%* Daily Slaughter Capacity**


1. Tyson 36,000 head

2. Cargill 28,300 head

3. Swift & Co. 16,759 head

4. National Beef Packing Co. 13,000 head



http://www.nfu.org/wp-content/2007-heffernanreport.pdf



there's some numbers for ya'll to crunch, but it looks like they have it sewed up just about. little man don't have a chance. i wonder how much money these 4 alone have contributed to the pockets i.e. Washington $$$


TSS

 

[Ben Roberts]

The very last-thing producers need to be, are meat packers!!!!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I certainly don't want to be one...but we, producers, had better support the independent meat packers we have and feed the growing market of consumers that want more than cheap food. The door is open....

I would totaly agree with you on that RobertMac.

 

[RobertMac]

Katrina, why can't you get that information, no matter who processes your cattle? Surely there are people getting it even if they don't own the cattle thru the feeding phase. I will say that a grader admitted he may have given some of ours the benefit of the doubt because my spouse was standing there as he graded them........and said that can go either way depending on the mood of the inspector/grader at any given time. That was one of the large packers, and a few years ago. Maybe five or less. Not very scientific, but till we get a better system, it's what we have to live with.

mrj

I guess I don't understand what point you are making mrj....

:agree:

 

[Ben Roberts]

The very last-thing producers need to be, are meat packers!!!!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Expound on that thought Ben......

I have seen a lot of producer based companies and the biggest problem is the tendency to run a processing business with goals that only relate to the farm. I have seen a few that run the processing as a business rather than "Subsidy Carrier" for te farm....

Any Food Processing is tough business....Thoughts that there are tons of profits that have been held out on you will get you introuble. But run it as a business and the odds for success are a lot better,

PPRM

PPRM, i'v been in the livestock industry all of my life. At one time I was a fourth owner in a packing plant, I love the business, it's great and the profits can be very good. I've seen producer plants start and fail for over fifty years. Producers make good ranchers/farmers/feeders but poor packers, for some reason, just because both industries deal with livestock, producers believe they would make good packers, when in fact both industries are so far apart. Cattle are the end product for producers, and raw material for packers.


Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[*elmo*]

packers have abused their market power,with captive supplies,there needs to be change

 

[Ben Roberts]

packers have abused their market power,with captive supplies,there needs to be change

elmo, what exactly are you calling 'captive supply'? do you know what a true captive supply is?

Those of you that want to stop the packers from owning cattle are driving the beef packing business out of this country. I for one don't want to see that happen. Packers have always abused their market power, you are NOT going to stop that abuse by government legislation. There is only one way to stop that abuse, producers must draw a line and say thus far and no further. I do agree with you though, there needs to be a change.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[PPRM]

The very last-thing producers need to be, are meat packers!!!!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Expound on that thought Ben......

I have seen a lot of producer based companies and the biggest problem is the tendency to run a processing business with goals that only relate to the farm. I have seen a few that run the processing as a business rather than "Subsidy Carrier" for te farm....

Any Food Processing is tough business....Thoughts that there are tons of profits that have been held out on you will get you introuble. But run it as a business and the odds for success are a lot better,

PPRM

PPRM, i'v been in the livestock industry all of my life. At one time I was a fourth owner in a packing plant, I love the business, it's great and the profits can be very good. I've seen producer plants start and fail for over fifty years. Producers make good ranchers/farmers/feeders but poor packers, for some reason, just because both industries deal with livestock, producers believe they would make good packers, when in fact both industries are so far apart. Cattle are the end product for producers, and raw material for packers.


Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I wholeheartedly agree with those observations....Without my Food Processing and Sales background, I would not have a chance with my direct marketing...Understanding the roles of different qualtiies of product in any marketplace and things such as recovery and yeild in a way I didn't before the career I had...

I was in an idustry that made pennies a pound and we were pretty disciplined.....It was great training,

I worked for a Farmer Processor that p***ed away a ton of money and just did not get it.........They once were against somerecovery measures because they were afraid it would mean we use less of the farms corn...Ummmm...Guys, it just means we get more finished product from the same corn, LOL,

PPRM

 

[mrj]

Some interesting and logical comments here, PPRM and Ben R.

One major problem for too many ranchers who believe current packer groups should be eliminated in favor of "producer owned" packing plants, it seems to me, is the 'green eye' syndrome. Pure envy. Simply a vision of "greener grass" on the packer side of the cattle/beef industry. Specifically, ENVY of those believed (almost always incorrectly) to have/make/get more money more easily!

mrj

 

[katrina]

Some interesting and logical comments here, PPRM and Ben R.

One major problem for too many ranchers who believe current packer groups should be eliminated in favor of "producer owned" packing plants, it seems to me, is the 'green eye' syndrome. Pure envy. Simply a vision of "greener grass" on the packer side of the cattle/beef industry. Specifically, ENVY of those believed (almost always incorrectly) to have/make/get more money more easily!

mrj

I don't think it's envy........ I've dealt with packers and they difinatly don't have my best interest at hand...... Thank god there is more ways to skin a cat..... :wink:
What concerns me is the nieve ranchers.... Take the money and run symdrome... We have to follow the cattle to the plate.......

 

[PORKER]

We have to follow the cattle to the plate....... yes and it gives a higher return%$$$$ to those involved in the source chain.

 

[Tex]

Some interesting and logical comments here, PPRM and Ben R.

One major problem for too many ranchers who believe current packer groups should be eliminated in favor of "producer owned" packing plants, it seems to me, is the 'green eye' syndrome. Pure envy. Simply a vision of "greener grass" on the packer side of the cattle/beef industry. Specifically, ENVY of those believed (almost always incorrectly) to have/make/get more money more easily!

mrj

Perhaps that is YOUR reason, mrj. Please do not project. Packers can suppress the supply of beef on the market place by lowering the prices they pay to ranchers. When that happens, the poultry prices go up. The packers who own poultry plants and nominally profitable beef processing walk away to the bank with their higher poultry prices.

 

[Tex]

Porker, you don't have to own a packing plant nor do you have to be a co-op. The reason is that the producers (ranchers, pork producers, or chicken farmers) CAN form a co-op and demand the prices they get for the supplies they produce. They don't have to.

The requirements for processors is that they pay you the same as they are paying others for like goods.

In the case of processing and you owning the goods on the other side of the processor, the rule for processors is that they "charge" you the same as they charge everyone else. That is your protection under the Packers and Stockyards Act (properly enforced).

The problem comes in when the processors own the processing, and also the goods out the other end.

In your case, you own the goods on the other end of the processor. The additional profits you get from the market by your efforts are your own.

The problem with big processors is that they do not let you own the cattle on the other side when it turns into beef. They don't even let guys like you have "rail" space. They control the supply in a given area by controlling both aspects and limit your ability to own and sell your own beef.

"Bad" processors limit who they will process for and so limit the rail space available to people like you. If you own a big pig farm, for instance, the processors can just say, "we will not process your pigs at all". In this way, they control the supply of pork on the market and only let the market be THEIR market because they control all the supply coming from their plants.

I would agree with you that I wouldn't want to be a processor either, and you don't have to be. You will have to make sure your beef, pigs, or chickens do get processed, however.

 

[RobertMac]

Ben, it's poor management that causes failure, not necessarily who's the owner.

"Bad" processors limit who they will process for and so limit the rail space available to people like you. If you own a big pig farm, for instance, the processors can just say, "we will not process your pigs at all". In this way, they control the supply of pork on the market and only let the market be THEIR market because they control all the supply coming from their plants.

This is why packers don't have to own the cows or the land!!!!!!

One major problem for too many ranchers who believe current packer groups should be eliminated in favor of "producer owned" packing plants, it seems to me, is the 'green eye' syndrome. Pure envy. Simply a vision of "greener grass" on the packer side of the cattle/beef industry. Specifically, ENVY of those believed (almost always incorrectly) to have/make/get more money more easily!

I guess I should pay myself less for my cattle...but then, what would I do with the "greener grass"??? :???: :? :roll: :roll: