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Problem with young Australian Shepard

M

Mournful Tune

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
5
Location
Middle Tennessee
Below are links to two videos of our ten month old Australian Shepard. This problem first appeared late summer but has steadily worsened until it is almost disabling. The symptoms are that he chases, growls, and bites at his left rear foot. He does not chew on the foot or deliberately bite it but does do so sometimes by accident. The left rear foot twitches as if he is involuntarily trying to scratch his shoulder. Occasionally he does the same thing to his right foot but overwhelmingly it is his left. We have had him looked at by two vets. The first had no idea what the problem could be but did suggest a couple of drug regimens that might help. They would have been quite expensive and if successful would probably have had to be continued for the rest of his life. The second thought that it was related to a injury or malformation of the spine and tried some chiropractic. That was in mid November and does not seemed to have helped at all.

We have about resigned ourselves to having to have him put down but wanted to see if anyone on this forum might have any ideas. Anyone have any experience with anything like this at all? Even if there is no remedy we would sure like to know if anyone has any ideas about what the problem could be. Especially if it could be genetic, we would sure like to know and how to avoid it in the future.

Thanks.

BTW, I am a new member but have been an avid reader of these forums for some time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYSxAHfCGh0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGJxq9aSHck
 
That is weird! :shock: :shock: :shock:

I worked at a vet clinic for 15 years, and haven't seen that one. I do know what we'd recommend if we saw it though, and that would be to take the dog to the vet college in Saskatoon, which is obviously not practical in your case. Is there a vet school anywhere near you that your vet could recommend? That's where the big time specialists are, and maybe someone there could help.

Perhaps it's psychological, but I would think he needs some sophisticated testing to rule out a neurological issue first.

Let us know how it turns out.
 
I vote Neurological....nerve issues. Did he suffer a previous injury....ck with whomever you got him from.


He needs help that's for sure. Ck with the local Vet school, either you can call or have a Vet call for you.

I'd not give up yet.....but I'm voting Neuro problem and there IS a cause, you just gotta find it.
 
I am unable to view video here - but I have a suggestion.

Call up your nearest veterinarian college - suspect there is at least one in your neck of the woods.

There is a good chance this dog is experiencing either pain or complete loss of feeling in this leg. Saw something similar to this description many years ago

Suspect problems along the animal equivalent of the sciatic nerve.

Veterinarian schools usually have the best and latest equipment and techniques - plus they have a multitude of experts on hand - I have used them in the past with great success.

Good luck and Merry Christmas

BC


Mournful Tune said:
Below are links to two videos of our ten month old Australian Shepard. This problem first appeared late summer but has steadily worsened until it is almost disabling. The symptoms are that he chases, growls, and bites at his left rear foot. He does not chew on the foot or deliberately bite it but does do so sometimes by accident. The left rear foot twitches as if he is involuntarily trying to scratch his shoulder. Occasionally he does the same thing to his right foot but overwhelmingly it is his left. We have had him looked at by two vets. The first had no idea what the problem could be but did suggest a couple of drug regimens that might help. They would have been quite expensive and if successful would probably have had to be continued for the rest of his life. The second thought that it was related to a injury or malformation of the spine and tried some chiropractic. That was in mid November and does not seemed to have helped at all.

We have about resigned ourselves to having to have him put down but wanted to see if anyone on this forum might have any ideas. Anyone have any experience with anything like this at all? Even if there is no remedy we would sure like to know if anyone has any ideas about what the problem could be. Especially if it could be genetic, we would sure like to know and how to avoid it in the future.

Thanks.

BTW, I am a new member but have been an avid reader of these forums for some time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYSxAHfCGh0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGJxq9aSHck
Click to expand...
 
I agree, looks neurological. It almost looks as if he does not recognize the leg as being his own. Or have control of it.

In the second video it looks like the leg is "teasing" him.

Before you have him put down, would it be an option to just amputate the leg and see if that helps.
 
I've not seen anything like that but suspect something to do with the nerves. If you dont mind I will post to some of my dog friends and boards and see if any knows what it is or where to go in TN to find out.
 
After watching the videos several times, especailly the second one--a form of tail chasing crossed my mind. I friend I sent the videos to-thought along the same lines and found a site that mite shed some light.

http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/applied-ethology/behaviourproblems/tailchase.html

Waiting to hear back from another friend in TN for a good vet/specailist you mite go to.
 
Thanks to everyone for the responses. I knew I could count on you all for ideas and help if you could. I agree with most of you that it is likely neurological and maybe injury related but determining the exact cause and what if anything can be done about it is the problem. We will investigate the possibility of having a vet school look at him. The nearest vet school is at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville about 200 miles away so that may not be too practical. We got him at about 6 weeks of age so I don't think any anjury occurred prior to that. He was a highly atheletic dog until recently. I have seen him jump nearly three feet straight up trying to get at a ground hog I had caught in a live trap. It is possible he made a bad landing from one of these feats and injured his spine but there was never any obvious injury that I know of. He is a great little dog and showed great promise. For that reason and because we have gotten pretty attached to him we want to try everything within reason to help him before we give up.

Thanks again to everyone and feel free to post this anywhere else if you think it will help. Our vet posted it to some veterinary website and got some suggestions but I don't know the name of the site.
 
More ideas from friends:

An Abcess in brain may be a possiblity

Maaaannny years ago when I worked at Texas A&M, a pup under a year of age that had a previous surgery had similar symptoms. After a MRI... they found an abscess at the base of his brain. Once removed he was normal...... the original surgery was on a back leg.

Another:
Tthis could be a form of idiopathic epilepsy.
Seizures take many different forms. Two things that made me think of
epilepsy are the "lip-smacking" behavior early in the seizure, and what
looks like a progressive loss of motor control as the seizure
progresses. The dog starts off on his feet, then sinks to the ground.
He is at an age when seizures often first show up.

Since my Aussie has epilepsy I may too quick to see it in other dogs.
But the over-all demeanor of the dog reminds me of a moderately severe
seizure. The first choice drugs (phenobarbital and potassium bromide)
to treat epilepsy work fairly quickly and are inexpensive. Epilepsy is
hard to diagnose since it must be done by a process of elimination.

Have another friend that is friends with a behavorist...she is going to 'pick' her friend's brain for ideas...will get back to ya.
 
Mournful Tune said:
Thanks to everyone for the responses. I knew I could count on you all for ideas and help if you could. I agree with most of you that it is likely neurological and maybe injury related but determining the exact cause and what if anything can be done about it is the problem. We will investigate the possibility of having a vet school look at him. The nearest vet school is at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville about 200 miles away so that may not be too practical. We got him at about 6 weeks of age so I don't think any anjury occurred prior to that. He was a highly atheletic dog until recently. I have seen him jump nearly three feet straight up trying to get at a ground hog I had caught in a live trap. It is possible he made a bad landing from one of these feats and injured his spine but there was never any obvious injury that I know of. He is a great little dog and showed great promise. For that reason and because we have gotten pretty attached to him we want to try everything within reason to help him before we give up.

Thanks again to everyone and feel free to post this anywhere else if you think it will help. Our vet posted it to some veterinary website and got some suggestions but I don't know the name of the site.
Click to expand...


Here's what I did for my Corgi who developed a limp in her left front leg. I took her to my ' reg' vet and they took xrays and posted them to the internet site you refer to. I was not satisfied with what I got back. I went and found another local vet who ONLY SPECILIZES IN SMALL ANIMALS.

9 times outta 10 they are gonna have a digital xray. BIG DIFFERENCE in what you see. Plus many of the small animal vets have connections at the teaching hospitals. Mine did and I'm in GA and the xrays were sent via email to ONE vet who was an orthopaedic vet at UGA. We got a totally different response and one that added up.

Ck around for a small animal vet, one that specializes in doggies and kitties.


In fact, depends on where you are in TN....I could be closer to you. PM me and I'll gladly give you the info of the vet here.
 
I spoke with my sister last night. She's had Aussies for a long time. She says you must check out this website.

www.busteralert.org

As soon as I started describing the video, she knew right away where to look for an answer. There is a genetic issue with Aussies, Collies, and a couple of other breeds that can cause this. It's called mrd1, and stands for multi drug resistant. The gene prevents the dog from clearing a lot of commonly used drugs from it's system, and they become toxic. They can then cause all kinds of strange neurological symptoms. This is what caused all the problems a few years ago with the Collies that were reacting badly to Heartguard, but at the time no one knew about the genetic link. They've found that three out of four Collies tested carry one copy of the mutated gene, so it's not as rare as we may think.

There's a test for the gene, and it's a simple saliva test, so you may want to check it out. The website has a link to the University in Washington that runs the tests. They have already identified a very long list of drugs dangerous to these dogs, and are finding more all the time.

Hopefully this is not what's wrong with your dog, but it is an avenue to explore and with any luck eliminate. If it is positive, I'd be calling the breeder right away and notifying anyone else who may have siblings, so they can be alerted. If they find they do have the faulty gene, they can prevent problems by avoiding the implicated drugs.

I sure hope all this turns out OK. It's so hard to see such a fine young dog having health issues at such an early stage of life.

Please keep us updated on your progress. We'll be hoping for the best for you and your dog.
 
Broke Cowboy said:
Call up your nearest veterinarian college - suspect there is at least one in your neck of the woods.
Good luck and Merry Christmas
Click to expand...

I'll assume that you've checked for Fleas and Worms
It might just be Nerves/Habit
See if you can find a big Collar that will keep him from Chewing.

I have seen dog do something like this with Fleas on their feet

Let us know the Out Come Please
 
Thanks again everyone. We are going to follow up on some of these suggestions and will let you know the outcome.

I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and that all of you in the northern plains and Canada are not too cold and snowed in.
 
Please don't just give up and put the dog down without finding out what the problem is.......................
 
The best thing is a vet school- an interesting case like this may garner a reduction in fees. This dog may have had a spinal injury causing him nerve pain down his leg (I know all about this). If the nerve root injury is bad enough, it will cause sensory and motor disturbances. It was upsetting to watch, I think you ought to get that dog in sooner, not later. Does the foot feel cool to the touch? I am leaning toward nerve root issue, which can be diagnosed by an MRI with contrast. MRIs while expensive, yield a LOT of information in a short time. Good Luck, and don't give up.
 
Well, it depends on the day. Through the week he seemed a bit better but yesterday was a bad day. The worst thing is he periodically bites his left rear foot and injures it. Taking into account everyone's advice, the vets we have consulted, and our own observations we are going with the theory of a spinal injury which is causing nerve pain to which he responds. We have an appointment to have X-rays done tomorrow which may or may not confirm this theory and if so reveal the severity of the injury and what the prospects for improvement or treatment may be. I intend, however, to discuss some of the other theories posted on here with the Vet.

Thanks.
 

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