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Protectionism

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ml

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Just got back from an overseas trip where I was approached by an irate Ukrainian who wanted to know why it was against US law to buy Ukrainian steel. Not knowing anything about the steel industry I told him it was probably politics and protectionism by the steel industry. I don't have the knowledge nor inclination to research whether what he said was true or not so bear with me. Am wondering how this "protectionism" has hindered or negatively impacted the US steel industry in relation to the many posts here that protectionism will destroy the US cattle industry.

Thanks.
 

DOC HARRIS

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ml said:
Just got back from an overseas trip where I was approached by an irate Ukrainian who wanted to know why it was against US law to buy Ukrainian steel. Not knowing anything about the steel industry I told him it was probably politics and protectionism by the steel industry. I don't have the knowledge nor inclination to research whether what he said was true or not so bear with me. Am wondering how this "protectionism" has hindered or negatively impacted the US steel industry in relation to the many posts here that protectionism will destroy the US cattle industry.

Thanks.
It seems oddly Quixotic that almost the entire World is envious of ( and therefore - HATES ) the United States because we have everything that they desire - Freedom, Natural Resources, Industry, Fertile Land in abundance, incredible Agricultural knowledge and abilities, abundant production of everything - and - our producers are Taxed to support that Life style for the American people who have used their abilities, industriousness, ingenuity, faith, confidence, belief, hard work, sweat (AND tears!) to stabilize what we have achieved - - - and then THEY become IRATE because we don't 'fall all over ourselves' to buy their steel, or any other product and not charge them or TAX them when they export it to us. Sure - let our steel mills or our Beef Producers or any other manufacturer or producer of commodities 'Go To HELL' just so we can be 'fair' to the rest of the world! I am SICK of that crap. Have been for a l-o-o-o-n-g time and will continue to be so. If 'protectionism' means protecting us and our way of life and the United States of America - then by God let's have at it! And I feel the same way about Illegal (UN-LAWFUL) Aliens! - - - As I tell my Wife "Honey - - don't let me get started!!" And if 'protectionism' means protecting the rest of the world from us and our Private Enterprise Freedom - that's CRAP also!

And you are welcome!
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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DOC HARRIS said:
It seems oddly Quixotic that almost the entire World is envious of ( and therefore - HATES ) the United States because we have everything that they desire - Freedom, Natural Resources, Industry, Fertile Land in abundance, incredible Agricultural knowledge and abilities, abundant production of everything - and - our producers are Taxed to support that Life style for the American people who have used their abilities, industriousness, ingenuity, faith, confidence, belief, hard work, sweat (AND tears!) to stabilize what we have achieved - - - and then THEY become IRATE because we don't 'fall all over ourselves' to buy their steel, or any other product and not charge them or TAX them when they export it to us. Sure - let our steel mills or our Beef Producers or any other manufacturer or producer of commodities 'Go To HELL' just so we can be 'fair' to the rest of the world! I am SICK of that crap. Have been for a l-o-o-o-n-g time and will continue to be so. If 'protectionism' means protecting us and our way of life and the United States of America - then by God let's have at it! And I feel the same way about Illegal (UN-LAWFUL) Aliens! - - - As I tell my Wife "Honey - - don't let me get started!!" And if 'protectionism' means protecting the rest of the world from us and our Private Enterprise Freedom - that's CRAP also!

And you are welcome!

Hey Doc, take 2 aspirins and call me in the morning! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

HAY MAKER

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Maple Leaf Angus said:
DOC HARRIS said:
It seems oddly Quixotic that almost the entire World is envious of ( and therefore - HATES ) the United States because we have everything that they desire - Freedom, Natural Resources, Industry, Fertile Land in abundance, incredible Agricultural knowledge and abilities, abundant production of everything - and - our producers are Taxed to support that Life style for the American people who have used their abilities, industriousness, ingenuity, faith, confidence, belief, hard work, sweat (AND tears!) to stabilize what we have achieved - - - and then THEY become IRATE because we don't 'fall all over ourselves' to buy their steel, or any other product and not charge them or TAX them when they export it to us. Sure - let our steel mills or our Beef Producers or any other manufacturer or producer of commodities 'Go To HELL' just so we can be 'fair' to the rest of the world! I am SICK of that crap. Have been for a l-o-o-o-n-g time and will continue to be so. If 'protectionism' means protecting us and our way of life and the United States of America - then by God let's have at it! And I feel the same way about Illegal (UN-LAWFUL) Aliens! - - - As I tell my Wife "Honey - - don't let me get started!!" And if 'protectionism' means protecting the rest of the world from us and our Private Enterprise Freedom - that's CRAP also!

And you are welcome!

Hey Doc, take 2 aspirins and call me in the morning! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Dont mess with the doc,he is right on.............good luck
 

Shelly

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DOC HARRIS said:
ml said:
Just got back from an overseas trip where I was approached by an irate Ukrainian who wanted to know why it was against US law to buy Ukrainian steel. Not knowing anything about the steel industry I told him it was probably politics and protectionism by the steel industry. I don't have the knowledge nor inclination to research whether what he said was true or not so bear with me. Am wondering how this "protectionism" has hindered or negatively impacted the US steel industry in relation to the many posts here that protectionism will destroy the US cattle industry.

Thanks.
It seems oddly Quixotic that almost the entire World is envious of ( and therefore - HATES ) the United States because we have everything that they desire - Freedom, Natural Resources, Industry, Fertile Land in abundance, incredible Agricultural knowledge and abilities, abundant production of everything - and - our producers are Taxed to support that Life style for the American people who have used their abilities, industriousness, ingenuity, faith, confidence, belief, hard work, sweat (AND tears!) to stabilize what we have achieved - - - and then THEY become IRATE because we don't 'fall all over ourselves' to buy their steel, or any other product and not charge them or TAX them when they export it to us. Sure - let our steel mills or our Beef Producers or any other manufacturer or producer of commodities 'Go To HELL' just so we can be 'fair' to the rest of the world! I am SICK of that crap. Have been for a l-o-o-o-n-g time and will continue to be so. If 'protectionism' means protecting us and our way of life and the United States of America - then by God let's have at it! And I feel the same way about Illegal (UN-LAWFUL) Aliens! - - - As I tell my Wife "Honey - - don't let me get started!!" And if 'protectionism' means protecting the rest of the world from us and our Private Enterprise Freedom - that's CRAP also!

And you are welcome!


You seem a little angry!?? I'm sure there's alot of other people in the States feel the same way. Hell, in Canada, too! But you have to calm down, you're gonna have a coronary. You seem like a nice guy from what I've read of your posts before. Please stay that way.
 

Cal

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Okay Doc and HAYMAKER, make sure you keep that imported steel out of the country (even though it's tarriffed high already), while domestically manufactured steel continues to climb! And like most any other industry that's in trouble, it's heavily burdened by labor unions and legacy commitments! So for every new steel item you buy and pay through the nose for, stand proudly and pledge your allegiance to big labor! There may be many purchases not made, and many steel building projects that are now out of budget, but BY GOD WE SHOWED THEM DAMN FOREIGNERS!
 

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Yet most of the steel supplied to North America is coming from India and China.

Korea has become the destination for scrap and they ship it to China for casting. India supplies pipe and tubing but I am not sure where they get their source of scrap.

Japan used to ship but they have been passed or undercut by these other countries.

Ukraine might have other issues with their steel. Tarriffs and politics aren't the only reasons the US wouldn't import. Perhaps Ukraine uses chemicals that are banned in the US? Maybe the quality is sub par.

South Africa can supply castings in a price competetive to China but the quality is half as good.
 

Denny

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Cal said:
Okay Doc and HAYMAKER, make sure you keep that imported steel out of the country (even though it's tarriffed high already), while domestically manufactured steel continues to climb! And like most any other industry that's in trouble, it's heavily burdened by labor unions and legacy commitments! So for every new steel item you buy and pay through the nose for, stand proudly and pledge your allegiance to big labor! There may be many purchases not made, and many steel building projects that are now out of budget, but BY GOD WE SHOWED THEM DAMN FOREIGNERS!


can anyone say CHINA :shock: :shock: :shock:
 

Denny

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Jason said:
Yet most of the steel supplied to North America is coming from India and China.

Korea has become the destination for scrap and they ship it to China for casting. India supplies pipe and tubing but I am not sure where they get their source of scrap.

Japan used to ship but they have been passed or undercut by these other countries.

Ukraine might have other issues with their steel. Tarriffs and politics aren't the only reasons the US wouldn't import. Perhaps Ukraine uses chemicals that are banned in the US? Maybe the quality is sub par.

South Africa can supply castings in a price competetive to China but the quality is half as good.

cHINA IS IMPORTING THE MAJORITY OF u.s. scrap smelting it down milling it and useing it domestically they have a Most Favored tradeing status with us and have been purchaseing a full quota for a couple of years.They also own some of the taconite mines in Mn. and are shipping that over seas also for their own use...
 

Border rancher

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The way I see it….Doc, I have been away for a while so this is the first post of yours that I have read. Haymaker, you are old news.

I know nothing of steel so will write about what I do know, cattle and beef.

I am PROUD to be a Canadian, just as proud as you are of being from the USA. (I can’t say American as the last time I looked at a map of the world, Canada was also in North America! )

Sometimes I almost wish that Canadians in general were less kind and gentle, and more like our US neighbours, maybe we would be more able to compete with you. Not many Canadians I know would ever write a selfish post such as yours.

I feel sorry for you and for others that feel as you do. It sounds to me like you are scared to death that you will have to produce goods to prove your superiority, and will be found inadequate. Why else would you be protectionist? If your products are the best are you not confident that US citizens and people around the world will buy only your steel or beef or whatever?

I, on the other hand am very proud of the product we produce on our ranch, which has been owned by my family for the last 95 years. My neighbours are also very proud of their cattle herds and of the beef that comes from them. When this silly little political skirmish is over, and eventually it will be, I hope you are not too afraid to take us on in your own country or around the world!
 

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Border rancher said:
The way I see it….Doc, I have been away for a while so this is the first post of yours that I have read. Haymaker, you are old news.

I know nothing of steel so will write about what I do know, cattle and beef.

I am PROUD to be a Canadian, just as proud as you are of being from the USA. (I can’t say American as the last time I looked at a map of the world, Canada was also in North America! )

Sometimes I almost wish that Canadians in general were less kind and gentle, and more like our US neighbours, maybe we would be more able to compete with you. Not many Canadians I know would ever write a selfish post such as yours.
I feel sorry for you and for others that feel as you do. It sounds to me like you are scared to death that you will have to produce goods to prove your superiority, and will be found inadequate. Why else would you be protectionist? If your products are the best are you not confident that US citizens and people around the world will buy only your steel or beef or whatever?

I, on the other hand am very proud of the product we produce on our ranch, which has been owned by my family for the last 95 years. My neighbours are also very proud of their cattle herds and of the beef that comes from them. When this silly little political skirmish is over, and eventually it will be, I hope you are not too afraid to take us on in your own country or around the world!


HHAAA......Show her what you can do Miss Tam,watch this after Miss Tam gets thru talkin R CALF I believe you will agree how ridiculous your post is................good luck PS are you the same lady that was calling 16700 cattle men terrorists on your last visit?
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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HAY MAKER said:
. . . Tam gets thru talkin R CALF I believe you will agree how ridiculous your post is................good luck PS are you the same lady that was calling 16700 cattle men terrorists on your last visit?

Maybe not so ridiculous, HAY MAKER. You know the saying, "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter . . ."

What is it about Tam that bothers you so bad? Do you not like it when somebody can use straight thinking and straight talk to gut your misinformation?

There is not a man or woman in r-calf that can stand up to people like Tam because she deals in a commodity that is foreign to the likes of them that hang with r-calf. When I say "commodity", I'm not talking about cattle. I'm talking about truth.
 

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As I said in a previous post, I hope our beef NEVER shows up anywhere in the world labelled anything other than "PRODUCT OF CANADA', certainly not product of USA! As I said before, we are proud of what we produce. Are you?

No time now for the terrorist thing again, BUT I noticed a couple weeks or so ago a phrase in in very popular Canadian farm weekly talking about the "R Calf terrorists". So you see, the thought has crossed the minds of many more than myself. So, you, Haymaker and your R Calf allies, have fun in your tiny little self sufficient worlds. Unfortunately for you, we are NOT all broke yet, and WE WILL BE BACK!
 
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Border rancher said:
As I said in a previous post, I hope our beef NEVER shows up anywhere in the world labelled anything other than "PRODUCT OF CANADA', certainly not product of USA! As I said before, we are proud of what we produce. Are you?

No time now for the terrorist thing again, BUT I noticed a couple weeks or so ago a phrase in in very popular Canadian farm weekly talking about the "R Calf terrorists". So you see, the thought has crossed the minds of many more than myself. So, you, Haymaker and your R Calf allies, have fun in your tiny little self sufficient worlds. Unfortunately for you, we are NOT all broke yet, and WE WILL BE BACK!

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Border Rancher- Are these Canadian Ranchers terrorists?--Sure should help feed prices on both sides of the border!! :?

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LEGAL/REGULATORY NEWS
Canadian feed lawsuits to cost feedmaker millions in legal fees

by Pete Hisey on 6/8/2005 for Meatingplace.com




Ridley Corp Ltd., the Sydney, Australia-based parent of Canadian feedmaker Ridley Inc., estimates the cost of defending itself against a class-action suit brought by Canadian cattle growers at $1 million to $1.5 million per year.

The company is being sued for losses cattle farmers suffered after bovine spongiform encephalopathy was discovered in the Canadian herd in 2003. The farmers charge that the cattle contracted the disease from Ridley feed. Suits have been launched in four Canadian provinces, with the Canadian federal government named as a codefendant.

Ridley said that it plans to defend against the suits vigorously and that it may be years before the issues are settled.
 

HAY MAKER

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Border rancher said:
As I said in a previous post, I hope our beef NEVER shows up anywhere in the world labelled anything other than "PRODUCT OF CANADA', certainly not product of USA! As I said before, we are proud of what we produce. Are you?

No time now for the terrorist thing again, BUT I noticed a couple weeks or so ago a phrase in in very popular Canadian farm weekly talking about the "R Calf terrorists". So you see, the thought has crossed the minds of many more than myself. So, you, Haymaker and your R Calf allies, have fun in your tiny little self sufficient worlds. Unfortunately for you, we are NOT all broke yet, and WE WILL BE BACK!

It amazes me how you think R CALF is the source of your export problems,I like canadians,always have, do I like em enough to bet the farm,nope. When the BSE health risk is behind us I say open the border and lets trade............good luckPS I dont know why you are complaining you canadians are getting a fair price for your cattle.
 

Border rancher

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Hi again, No, Oldtimer, the people you are quoting the article about are not terrorists because they are targeting one small segment, only one large company in fact, in the feed business. Whether they win or lose will not have a lot of impact on other feed companies. Like a drop of water in a pond, the verdict will ripple for an instant in time and be gone.

R-Calf, however, is obviously targeting the whole North American cattle industry with their blatant message to consumers everywhere that “Beef is not safe!” How better to completely destroy that cattle industry than the “divide and conquer” philosophy they are they are fostering right now between Canada and the US. caused by this border closure farce. When both countries cattle people are brought to their knees, producers in BOTH countries, and the big packers have left for greener pastures where the cattle are, maybe Brazil or Chili, what will we have left? Then these maybe terrorists can start on other foods, the grain markets, manufacturing etc. Probably no more bombs will be needed. Food production for the world will be moved to smaller countries, maybe those like Iraq and Afganistan which the terrorists often seem to call home. I know, you will say those countries, even some large ones in South America are not large enough to feed the world, but with the technology available now they could be large enough. We wouldn’t eat the way we do now. I guess with the terrorist faction in control, we might get just enough food to stay alive, as long as they have a use for us.

Haymaker, I can excuse you a little bit as you live far from the border and obviously don’t know how many hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of live cattle have been imported by the USA from Canada. If there was rampant BSE in Canada you would have gotten more than 1 animal that had the disease. With Canada’s extensive testing 3 cases have been confirmed here. Doesn’t sound like an epidemic to me. I would think that a smart person like yourself would have figured out that this whole border thing has nothing to do with BSE, it is just the excuse for keeping the protectionist US border closed.

Back to another of your replies. Yes, I am the person who said in an earlier post that R Calf might be CONTROLLED by terrorists. I did not say 16,700 members were terrorists. I (and many others) wonder if some of those at the top of that group might have terrorist affiliation.

Let me explain. In Canada people seem to be a lot more sceptical of radical ideas than they do in the USA. For instance a group like R Calf would not be successful here because most Canadians do not jump on any band wagon until they have asked “Why?, what?, where? and if not satisfied with the answers, they back off and try something else. I have been told more than once by friends who have lived for several years on each side of the border, that the “follower” trait of many in the US was what they noticed as the biggest difference between people in the 2 countries.

In conclusion, I think everyone needs to step back and look at this BSE/border closure issue with an open mind. I don’t blame US cattlemen or R Calf members for our export woes. (although I do think that you, Haymaker, are really out of touch with reality if you think that $200.00 is a good price for a healthy 1200# cow) I do blame the force that drives R Calf and people who agree with them. I really am not sure that R Calf is the only group keeping the border closed, there may be more, but R Calf really likes to take the credit for it so they get to “claim the fame“. I really hope I and the many who have the same ideas as I are wrong about this terrorist theory, but as time goes on it, (the theory) makes more sense all the time.
 

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