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Public land grazing

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Southdakotahunter

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Speak of the devil......I got this off Deans site. Im sure LB will tell us how much bs it is........How many of you would like to rent pasture at these rates? How many of you would like to bid on pastures at rates like this? Luckily, we all get to pay for these shortfalls.

Tony Dean Outdoors
Issues
Rates Lowered on Public Grazing Land

February 6, 2008– Today, the federal government announced the public lands grazing fee for 2008: a mere $1.35 per cow, per month to graze on our National Forests and BLM lands on 235 million acres in the West.

A report by the Government Accountability Office in 2005 showed that BLM and Forest Service grazing receipts fell far short of their expenditures on grazing by almost $115 million. The fee decreased from $2.36 per AUM (animal unit month) in 1980 to the current rate of $1.35, or over 40% while grazing fees charged by private ranchers increased by 78 percent for the same period. To recover costs of administering the federal grazing program, BLM and the Forest Service would have had to charge $7.64 and $12.26 per AUM[1] .

The fee is set by a formula established by the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978, and calculates the fee based on the amount of forage required to sustain one AUM (a cow and her calf) for one month. This new fee is as low as the government formula allows it to go despite increasing costs to administer the grazing program. The new fee and formula do not account for inflation or the increasing size of those "animal units."

"Adjusted for inflation since 1980, the new cost to graze a cow and her calf is worth about $0.54 in constant 1980 dollars" said Jon Marvel, executive director of WWP. "It costs more than that to feed a hamster, and it's not fouling streams, ruining wildlife habitat, or accelerating erosion as livestock do. This is a huge hand out to public land ranchers. If the fee had been adjusted for inflation, today's rate would be $5.94 per AUM."

In addition, based on figures from the National Agricultural Statistics Service, the average weight of cows increased from 1050 pounds in 1984 to 1242 pounds in 2004, or an increase of 23%, while the forage consumption of their calves is not counted. If the current weight and forage consumption of cows and their calves were counted, the actual forage consumed is over 40% greater than the agencies charge for, further devaluing the fee recovered. These "super-sized" cows are eating more forage than their smaller predecessors, raising the profits for the livestock industry and reducing the amount of vegetation available for wildlife.

"No one is surprised that a government program runs at a deficit," said Greta Anderson, WWP's Arizona Director. "What people may be surprised to know is that this de facto subsidy only benefits a very small percentage of ranchers who have public lands permits. So why should we subsidize this marginal industry? What is the benefit to the broader America public to be giving away the bounty and biological integrity of our public lands while degrading our watersheds, water supplies and wildlife habitat? "

"Western Watersheds Project would like the land management agencies to revisit the grazing fee formula and adjust the base rate to reflect inflation, the increased weights of livestock, and the ecological costs of maintaining the program." Greta Anderson said, "Given the massive budgetary shortfalls in the agencies and the scaling back of staff and services that is occurring, recovering a fair fee on our public grazing lands is a perfectly reasonable goal."
 
I don't think you or anyone else would be complaning if they were leasing it. :lol:

I don't lease any BLM, but I have friends/customers who do. They tell me that their is alot of headacke that goes along with the cheap lease.

Not sure if it is like this everywhere, but I was watching the American Rancher last night on RFD TV and they were talking about ranching in (I think) Nevada on government ground, they said if a fire comes across this land, they then have to stay off of it for a minimum of 3 years. What is the rancher suppose to do with his cowherd for 3 years?
 
As a public lands grazer I can assure you the costs are higher than $1.35/AUM once you add in time maintaining the allotment (fixing fence, rebuilding pole fences and corrals the public has torn down and burnt up, gasoline costs to drive up 3-4 times a week to move your cattle around, lawsuits costs, costs associated with losing usually at least one calf per year to someone's target practice, the public shooting paintballs at your cattle's eyes etc...), its a real treat.

Just got through a bloody battle lawsuit against environmental jerks which cost us close to $30,000. It was appealed up to the 10th circuit court of appeals, and the forest service/and us permittees won.

Yeah, it's real cheap grazing... how lucky I am to have it :?

I'd gladly pay $25+ per pair (or whatever the goin rate is) for a private lease. I'm betting I'd come out ahead.
 
South Dakota Hunter has really got a burr under his saddle pad for western ranchers! We get 12 inches of annual rainfall! If we didn't have BLM and Forest permits we WOULD NOT BE IN THE CATTLE BUSINESS!! Get it? There are places where you get rainfall amounts that allow almost year round grazing, but throughout most of the west it isn't possible. We lease federal land from may 15th to october 1st. We put in miles of pipelines and troughs, improve land by seeding, maintain fences and build miles of new ones, and just about everything we do helps wildlife TOO! As a hunter i would think that would make ya happy but i think you must have a bone to pick with western ranchers. When folks like you run folks like me out a business i hope you'll enjoy your steaks! I am proudly a 5th generation rancher and we are great stewards of the land we lease, both private and public. I do not appreciate eastern folks telling me how to run the land in my state. Fix the problems in your backyard and let us worry about ours. Without ranchers fighting against federal goofyness the radical enviro's would shut down all public access, period! They burn new cabins, vandalize logging operations, cut fences, and scream long and hard about anything that doesnt include hugging trees and backpacks. I realize you have your opinion and that's great, but realize you are attacking my way of life. This is how i feed my family! This is how America gets a lot of beef! Maybe you don't eat beef? Maybe you dont ask permission from landowners to hunt or fish? Maybe Tony Dean is a good friend? And maybe you do not realize how hard we work to provide for our familys and how disgusted we get when folks like you take pot shots at us and our way of life. :(
 
I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but alot of private leases we have to fix the fence there are no corrals,and you have to pay extra to have the water run.We also pay a rent payment and suppley all the fenceing supplies.On owned ground our taxes per acre are more than your lease payments.I pay a lease on government hayground plus I have to pay land taxes on it.I get it for a county average price value and if I abide by the rules I never hear from anyone.
 
Just so everyone knows, not all public lease rates are "cheap". Some BLM ground just outside of Sturgis was just up for bids. The successful bidder paid over $36/AUM for summer grazing.
 
Yes, it's a great bargain............. I had a chance to rent some once. Figured the costs.................I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
Deans problem is that he just thinks he should be able to hunt it everytime he wants to and the rancher stands in his way.
Maybe the gov should sell it.............................
 
Have these ranchers cleared up any misconceptions for you SD Stalker?

We don't lease grazing on government land, but our neighbors who do are sure as heck not getting a free ride.

We live close enough to both state and federal land we could rent if we wanted to, but that's the last place we'd look for grazing if we needed it because of the headaches that come with it.

Why don't you find some nice hunting and fishing website to hang out on instead of cluttering up this one? You're starting to annoy us.
 
Maybe Denny is right about his area, but it is not the norm.
Here if you see a guy do that they run themselves out of business in a few years with the extra costs on private land. Never works for very long.
 
I have no idea why the government wants to own all this land to start with?

Why don't they put it up for auction?
 
Anyone that quotes Jon Marvel and the Western Watershed Project is not someone in search of truth. He is a highly partisan demagogue interested only in furthering his agenda of removal of all public lands grazing. If he told me the sky was blue I would have to double check to make sure the color hadn't changed since the last time I looked. His version of the "truth" is sure to be hardly recognizable to anyone that really does care about the facts.

The facts are simple, public lands grazing is a net win for the land and wildlife that these enviro-commies claim to love. Only someone with no understanding of range management would be silly enough to make the claims that he has made. It has been demonstrated time and time again that the one of the worst things that can happen to land is to remove livestock grazing. Totally rested ground, year in and year out, is abused ground. I know that it is hard to wrap your mind around the concept. The worst thing you can do for your rangeland is overgraze it, the second worst thing you can do to your land is to undergraze it year after year.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
i agree the land needs to be grazed. As long as its not over grazed, and it should go up for bidding on an annual or semiannual basis.

I dont think the program should run in the red.


Problem with annual or semi annual bids is that it gives no incentive to take care for the long term. That is what Public lands should be managed for. The long term witch includes a stable ranch base to utilize and improve the habitat. In Saskatchewan our Ag and Food Lands branch land is leased for 33 years. It create a stable ranch unit that is responsible for the management of that grazing land. Some is used just for summer grazing but our place is grazed year long leading to different management style to just summer grazing. If you have been taking care of it your lease will be renewed. We pay a AUM fee plus the municipal and school taxes on the land.The fee is set thru a fomula that lands branch uses for all grazing land administered by them.
 
southdakota hunter,
How much do you pay to hunt on public lands?
What positive inputs do you put forward to improve the resources of our public lands?
 
Taylor grazing act requires the government lease be tied to a base property.
Private lease with all it expenses still comes out allot cheaper then my forest service allotments. More shot animals, (most are arrows) higher predatory animal losses.... wolves, grizzly, black bear and mountain lion. Allot more riding time and roundup. Extra time fixing shot up water developments and cut fences, corrals burned for beer parties. Don't mind the time monitoring stubble height, green line and % usage that parts just good management.
Every year we figure the Government lease vs. private lease and private always a better deal just not any around here that's not tied up.
 
jodywy said:
Taylor grazing act requires the government lease be tied to a base property.
.

Problem is that the Taylor Grazing Act has become a joke and the original reasoning behind it hasn't been enforced for years...The downfall of public land usage will be that so much of it has been tied to the individual ranch's base-figured as ranch net worth- and the rights sold and traded with the ranch even if they have little base property...
Problem is that these enviro groups have found that they can now do the same- come in and buy a few little chunks of deeded base which has thousands of acres of lease tied to it and that way control the entire unit- free for the deer antelope and buffalo to roam....
And most those groups have lots more available capital than any rancher does....
 
Its been a while since I've logged on and written anything, although I read a lot on here. You folks that don't understand public grazing issues need to realize that for several generation ranches sold with large acres of BLM land have sold with a significant value placed on the BLM acres. My dad tells that 60-70 years ago when he was a kid that BLM land sold for a higher price per acre than deeded land!!! The land didn't even produce enough to pay the property taxes. That tradition has carried along down through the years whether you eastern folks want to admit it or not. Like it or not, thats the way it is. But now days I'll guarantee you that after a lifetime of ranching you would be way ahead financially if you owned an all deeded ranch. Thats a no brainer! Nobody is getting rich out west ranching on BLM lands. Sorry about getting on my soapbox. But it is frustrating trying to survive out in this dry country and then hear people think we are just at the end of a gravy train. What I always tell people is "If you think its such a good deal, come on out and buy a ranch out west for yourself!!! We'd welcome you any day over the enviro groups like OT said that are moving in. :cry:
 
Oldtimer said:
jodywy said:
Taylor grazing act requires the government lease be tied to a base property.
.

Problem is that the Taylor Grazing Act has become a joke and the original reasoning behind it hasn't been enforced for years...The downfall of public land usage will be that so much of it has been tied to the individual ranch's base-figured as ranch net worth- and the rights sold and traded with the ranch even if they have little base property...
Problem is that these enviro groups have found that they can now do the same- come in and buy a few little chunks of deeded base which has thousands of acres of lease tied to it and that way control the entire unit- free for the deer antelope and buffalo to roam....
And most those groups have lots more available capital than any rancher does....
according to our permits we can have up to a 3 year hold over with out stocking, and in you don;t stock at the full rate in that time you lose it and someone else get your permit because of non use. We are in an association permit so if one permittee dose not fill his permit another one can. We have cut back numbers some years during the drougt but it easier to put the numbers out and cut days.
 

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