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Public land grazing

GTS said:
southdakota hunter,
How much do you pay to hunt on public lands?
What positive inputs do you put forward to improve the resources of our public lands?
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I pay ALOT actually. The extra taxes on my hunting and fishing gear go to purchase and maintain these public lands. What positive inputs-----how bout i leave them cleaner than i found them. I carry a small garbage bag with and pick up others trash when i see it. Hows that?

How bout you?
 
GTS said:
southdakota hunter,
How much do you pay to hunt on public lands?
What positive inputs do you put forward to improve the resources of our public lands?
Click to expand...


I pay ALOT actually. The extra taxes on my hunting and fishing gear go to purchase and maintain these public lands. What positive inputs-----how bout i leave them cleaner than i found them. I carry a small garbage bag with and pick up others trash when i see it. Hows that?

How bout you?
 
Southdakotahunter said:
GTS said:
southdakota hunter,
How much do you pay to hunt on public lands?
What positive inputs do you put forward to improve the resources of our public lands?
Click to expand...


I pay ALOT actually. The extra taxes on my hunting and fishing gear go to purchase and maintain these public lands. What positive inputs-----how bout i leave them cleaner than i found them. I carry a small garbage bag with and pick up others trash when i see it. Hows that?

How bout you?
Click to expand...

Hell no I don't pick up the trash I find on the forest... with all the meth labs up there, and who knows what else, we've been told to leave garbage where it lays. Yes, I may pick up a wrapper, or shot up beer can, but most trash stays where it lays.

I do notify the forest about trash dumps I do find, and they are responsible for its safe removal.

It just shows how well the public values and takes care of its land.
 
I agree Rancherfred, some of the best hunting in Rhodesia was on private land where cattle and game were integrated, after tribal herders ere removed from the government game reserves, some marginal grasslands became encroached with acacia scrub threatening the survival of several game species and birds. Southdacotahunter needs to familiarise himself with one of he range management systems such as Holistic Management, all of which require cattle to graze and provide hoof action to break up soil surfaces, especially where the native bovids are absent or represented in smaller numbers than can manage the available grassland.
http://www.holisticmanagement.org/
 
Southdakotahunter said:
Im talking pop cans etc
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Pop can drinkers usually aren't the ones who leave trash :)

My favorite stretch of fence to repair in the springtime is the stretch that dips down into a grove of aspen... well it used to be a grove anyhow.

Apparently someone decided it was a great target to use some sort of high powered firearm on, and mowed down the entire grove of trees. Once the trees were shaved off, they then proceeded to shoot the steel posts and wire into pieces. Once they were through being entertained by that activity, they proceeded to tear down and burn up the buck and pole fence that was located nearby.

I forgot to mention, if anyone out there would like take advantage of CHEAP forest grazing, and would like to purchase a 230 head permit, pm me. I know of one priced right :wink:
 
mtrancher said:
Its been a while since I've logged on and written anything, although I read a lot on here. You folks that don't understand public grazing issues need to realize that for several generation ranches sold with large acres of BLM land have sold with a significant value placed on the BLM acres. My dad tells that 60-70 years ago when he was a kid that BLM land sold for a higher price per acre than deeded land!!! The land didn't even produce enough to pay the property taxes. That tradition has carried along down through the years whether you eastern folks want to admit it or not. Like it or not, thats the way it is. But now days I'll guarantee you that after a lifetime of ranching you would be way ahead financially if you owned an all deeded ranch. Thats a no brainer! Nobody is getting rich out west ranching on BLM lands. Sorry about getting on my soapbox. But it is frustrating trying to survive out in this dry country and then hear people think we are just at the end of a gravy train. What I always tell people is "If you think its such a good deal, come on out and buy a ranch out west for yourself!!! We'd welcome you any day over the enviro groups like OT said that are moving in. :cry:
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Well said! I get sick of eastern folks who know whats best for me and the land in the west. From bogus National parks (See Clinton's Grand Staircase), to "Sportsmen" who think the area next to the road they are driving on is over grazed! My family settled this desert country in the mid 1800's and we have made our living from these mountain ranges for 5 generations! We are not rich! We love this life and the tradition! It makes me sick to see us so divided on issues like these. It makes anti- grazing, ect... folks gleefully overjoyed! The west is a great and beautiful place (as is all of America) because of the people and their love of this land! But when you get your information from radical propaganda websites and misinformation, you are starting the debate on a subject you know little about. If you graze private or public, my hat's off to you and i wish you all success! If you are just spouting off misinformation, i wish you'd do some research, visit with actual western families and talk a lot less while you listen more :wink:
 
How was this "missinfo"?? Is what i have posted missinfo or does it just piss ya off when someone tells them they should be paying more for what your getting?

I have never said to take the cattle off the public lands, as a matter of fact i have said it helps when its done correctly. Maybe your doing it right, and thats great if you are. THere are those out there that dont. It just floors me the govt has to subsidize this also, when private lands are increasing in price by the minute.
 
You may not have said that all public lands grazing should be ended, but that is exactly what Jon Marvel wants. If you aren't against public lands grazing you should make sure that you stay as far away from that demagogue as you possibly can. In other words, posting articles that he is quoted in doesn't give you credibility.
 
And your opinion is slanted straight toward the folks who want ALL public land grazing abolished! This is a website for RANCHERS! When you throw around a bunch of half- truths at best, you do tick me off! Come out west, buy an allotment, stock it with quality cattle, work your tailfeathers off keeping water in troughs, closing gates left open by hunters every deer hunt, and see how much cash is in your bank account every fall after ya sell your calves! Even with your so-called handouts from the goverment the line between broke and making it is mighty slim! But why would you care? You are a perfect sportsman who could never appreciate some dumb rancher trying to feed his kids! Your type would never shoot gate posts off or trespass or leave trash all over your campsite or even shoot one or two hiefers. All of that has been done to us or our neighbors! I love to hunt and would hate to be lumped in together with jackbutts that do stuff like that. Just like i get on the fight when folks like you claim all us western ranchers are freeloading over-grazers who have no clue how to manage the resource! If you were just pointing out what was interesting or unfair to you ,that is sure your right. But do not throw all of us under the bus. And to attack Miss Belle personally and to use bad language and to generalize all ranchers is just plain wrong. If your lookin' for a fight, you found one from me. If not, apologize and learn a little something.
 
The Jon Marvel and Tony Dean types are most successful at using peoples' natural tendency to be jealous and envious of what they perceive to be unfair advantages of others.

They publicize and promote the partial and even some total un-truths about public land uses generate sentiment against such uses among the most people they possibly can.

Because those of us who do not have large amounts of public lands and are not as knowlegeable as we should be, it is all too easy for us to be envious and think those who do use those lands are getting something we wish we could have.

One thing not mentioned yet here is the fact that those generally scenic western areas where there is much public land, and little deeded land could become a source of money to run up land costs in other ranching areas. FACT: that deeded land could be sold for it's scenic and development value by those who want to continue ranching. They will be well funded when they come to private land ranching areas, and they will be able to bid far more than we 'locals' can afford in order to buy land.

My understanding is that much of that public land was leased to ranchers in order to have some beneficial use and to have someone caring for it and maintaining it when there were few people in those areas. It seems to me the best use of it, excepting that it should have sold rather than keeping so much under government ownership. Government is certainly not the best steward of the land, nor should it own so much land in the west (or anywhere else, for that matter).

mrj
 
Talk about handouts, who is subsidizing the public's wildlife?

I know this little place summers at least 150 head of elk, and across the road, my neighbor deals with herds over 500 head. These animals do not eat for free, and do cause destruction, mainly fence issues which take time, labor and money to fix.

Yes, this place does lease to an outfitter to try and recoup some of the financial loss we take for running the public's wildlife. This place also allows non-paying people to hunt who have respect for the resource we provide.

Yes, our cattle are on the national forest taking advantage of the "cheap" grazing during the summertime, but you need to remember, we feed the public's wildlife year around.

Of course there is wildlife residing on the forest too, but not usually in the wintertime. The climate is harsher, and wildlife prefer deeded ground, at a lower elevation. Also, as in the case of the forest I run on, the public often haze the wildlife off the forest onto private ground during the summertime.

It isn't a perfect world, but ranchers do provide valued open space and wildlife habitat that most of the public seems to enjoy and benefit from. With the loss of these allotments, housing developments would soon rapidly follow.

You see, we make a living off of what our land produces, and we rely on public grazing to supplement the resources we work hard to preserve. I assure you building housing developments would be a huge loss for both the public and wildlife since critical habitat would be forever lost.
 
I'm goin on a rant here so bear with me. This is a topic that really bothers me. I'm a Rancher first, but hunting is a close second passion for me. I would like people like So.DA hunter, and hopefully many others that might read this to understand that Ranchers, just like (hunters, campers, treehugginberrymunchin gorpers) love the land too. Being that I like to hunt I've been on hunting sites listening to the uneducated BS hunters spout off about Ranchers and their "cheap grazing" of the public lands. I don't understand their complaints, so much of it is about how good we have it, how our livestock and us destroy the forrest land. First off, hunters aren't the ones repairing ponds, or fixing water lines to troughs that your precious treestand is perched above,Ranchers are! Hikers, hunters,etc., aren't the ones fixing trails and clearing downfall off of trails , Ranchers are! There is so much more to go on about, let alone the personal money spent for a lot of this maintenence on top of the unknown expenses for the livestock end. I here so many hunters complain saying "these cows are ruining my deer hunting spot by overgrazing it". Really,that's funny cause deer and cows live on an entirely different diet. Every Rancher I know loves the mountains, most love to hunt, and I guarantee most are doing what they can for the land, and why wouldn't they? I'm quite sure they're not going to ruin their livelyhood by not taking care of it. Ranchers and farmers are the ones that feed this country, I just don't understand why people are against em in so many ways. I guess they wouldn't mind starving. And I bet 99%of hunters don't rely on hunting for their food, and guarantee they don't limit thereselves to only eating venison! One more thing there was someone who posted earlier that they didn't understand why the government wanted all of this land, how come they just don't auction it off! Why would we want that to happen, so all of the Ted Turners in the world could own it all. Then you and I couldn't ever hunt, step foot on, enjoy,and yes even graze our livestock on this ground that our tax dollars go to. I know my rant is back and forth and I appologize, I just had to post up my feelings towards a topic that pisses me off to no end!
 
Southdakotahunter said:
GTS said:
southdakota hunter,
How much do you pay to hunt on public lands?
What positive inputs do you put forward to improve the resources of our public lands?
Click to expand...


I pay ALOT actually. The extra taxes on my hunting and fishing gear go to purchase and maintain these public lands. What positive inputs-----how bout i leave them cleaner than i found them. I carry a small garbage bag with and pick up others trash when i see it. Hows that?

How bout you?
Click to expand...

I'd rather the state owned less land and we paid less taxes. I don't mind the philosophy of the leasing land for walk in hunting, but they don't seem to do a very good job of that either.
 
WyomingRancher said:
jodywy said:
WyomingRancher was you involved in the pole mountain suit, which permittees and Conservation District just won?
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Yes
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ent to college with Mark, was a WSGA 2nd VP with him and am now on the WSGALT board with him.
Daughter home from college for spring break , she really like some ranch work on weekends .But she also pole vaulting for UW.But she not on the travaling team so dose have most week end off.
She gets to night herd all this week :D :D :D :D
 

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