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Putting up clover pasture hay on cash/acre deal...

J

John SD

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
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1,111
Location
western SD
No, it's not me but someone recently asked me my opinion on putting up clover hay on a cash/acre deal.

I hadn't thought of it before. It seems to me with all the variables that the fairest way to do it would be on a 60/40 share arrangement and then the person putting up the hay would buy the landowners share at the going market price. Or the landowner would be free to sell their share on the open market.

I'm not gonna throw any specific numbers on price or yield per acre at you at this time. Please tell me your own figures, and how you arrived at them. TIA for replies.

I realize my question has a lot of variables to consider in different areas of the country. But I do appreciate the results when you ranchers folks put your thinking caps on! :wink: :lol:
 
I found that it's best not to cut on shares. Even when contracts have been done people still think they got the short end some how. I own plenty of my own hay land and I don't buy hay.

We charge x amount to cut an acre and x amount per bail. We will move hay by the load per mile. We do not put hay in or near buildings because of liability. For small square bails wagons in good working condition must be on site before bailing starts.


I don't like more than 40% clover in hay. I have seen to many issues with clover.
 
I have some hay put up on shares. The trick is to deal with an outfit that you can trust and don't count the bales until his share is out of there. The arrangement works well.
 
Cut or swath by the HOUR, not the acre. Time is time, so that is the fairest for all parties. 60% should be fair for the guy doing the work.

Around here clover causes problems, and is usually ground at 1/3 clover and 2/3 anything else.
 
Faster horses said:
We tend to shy away from sweet clover hay, if that is what you
are talking about. Too many problems feeding it. So
we are no help at all.
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I have never had any experience with sweet clover hay. What problems can/does one encounter when feeding it?

I remember my uncle's dairy barn always smelled so nice because he always had a dash of sweet clover in his hay . . . . .
 
You must cut it at the right time or it isn't palable and you best not feed it close to calving. Here's a bit of info, burnt:

Sweetclover gives a high yield of hay, but it is difficult to harvest. Quality is high if the crop is cut in the bud stage. Delaying cutting until full bloom results in stemmy, low-quality hay since the large, moist stems take longer to dry than the leaves, which become brittle and shatter badly. The percentage of crude protein declines from 21 percent in young plants to 13 percent at the hay stages; at the same two stages, the percentage crude fiber is 19 percent and 36 percent, respectively. Coumarin, which gives this forage a sweet aroma, develops into dicoumarol, a potent anticoagulant, under poor curing conditions. This chemical causes "sweetclover disease" in livestock in which the blood loses its normal ability to clot and death results from internal bleeding or minor injuries.

Although most sweetclover hay is safe for feed, improperly cured or moldy forage should be used with caution. Samples from such forage should be sent to a feed testing laboratory for a chemical analysis of dicoumarol content. The danger of losing animals from bleeding can be lessened by feeding sweetclover for two weeks, followed by two weeks of feeding other forage. Spoiled sweetclover should be disposed of and not fed to animals.
 
Well that sure is a good thing to learn! I seeded down a little chunk this spring and just for the smell of it added a handful or two of sweet clover seed to every fill. Like maybe a half pound per acre out of a total of 16 pounds of alfalfa/timothy/bromegrass mix..

So I hope that rate won't cause any problems.
 
Thanks for the replies! Yes, I know clover can be tricky stuff. It's definitely not something you want to feed much of during periods of extreme cold or close to calving time because of the blood thinning tendencies.

I can remember years the clover grew 6' tall in places. In the '70s it was about all the draper swather could handle with the reel in the highest position. Now I have a '16 moco with steel on steel conditioner that sure makes handling rank hay like clover much easier.

.70 of rain overnight and I haven't checked the guage this afternoon. Temps have only been in the high 30s - 40s today. I even have a little heat on in the house. :wink:
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
I have bought standing hay for so much a pound then I harvest it and pay on the bale weight.
Click to expand...

Thanks BMR. Do you value your swather/rake/baler input by the acre or hourly basis? As most of the posters in this thread have stated and also a guy on another forum who puts up a lot of custom hay believe the hourly basis is the fairest because it's more accountable for variations in field/crop conditions.

I have one of my neighbors put up one of hay fields for me on a 60/40 share deal every year. (The field is closer to their place than mine) A few years ago my swather had a major breakdown and I got another neighbor to do my swathing that season. I paid $15/acre and supplied the fuel.
 
John SD said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
I have bought standing hay for so much a pound then I harvest it and pay on the bale weight.
Click to expand...

Thanks BMR. Do you value your swather/rake/baler input by the acre or hourly basis? As most of the posters in this thread have stated and also a guy on another forum who puts up a lot of custom hay believe the hourly basis is the fairest because it's more accountable for variations in field/weather/crop conditions.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure i understand your deal. If I am buying hay from someone if i can i price it by the pound and then the expense of harvest is mine. I haven't done any custom haying but I'm sure you would want to charge by the hour. I have put hay up on shares at 60/40 but I like just paying for the hay out right.
 
Sorry BMR, I'm a little slow today! :oops: I do understand what you're saying now. :wink:

The original proposal to the landowner was a flat cash/acre deal, which seemed a bit on the low side IMO. Your cash/pound deal sounds fair to all concerned because it is based on the actual production.
 
John SD When I do custom haying I eather put it up on a 50/50 share or so much a bale and I swath,rake and bale. That way if the hay is real good I get payed more. If the hay is real poor I don't do it. Clover hay I always run threw a hay grinder and mix with other hay.
 
The original proposal to the landowner was a flat cash/acre deal, which seemed a bit on the low side IMO. Your cash/pound deal sounds fair to all concerned because it is based on the actual production.
Click to expand...

I have heard of people doing the same thing and then have arguments over what the bales actually weighed when a scale wasn't close so they all could be weighed. I would take a good guess at production and price it at so much per bale. An example would be if I thought it would make 3 bales, 15$ per acre to cut and $7 per bale to bale that means I have $12 per bale my cost. If I thought it was worth $25 per bale for the hay I could price it at $13 per bale.
$39 per acre for clover is pretty good money for the landowner but my guess is that production would be closer to 2 bales than 3.

Hope that helped.
 
Yes Doug, that helps. A scale isn't close enough to be practical to weigh every bale in this deal.

I have weighed some of my bales on occassion (sell 3 at a time to horse people on my bumper pull flatbed) My 5x5 bales consistently weigh 1300 lbs. Never vary more than 50 lbs either way.

The gals at the FSA office have always accepted my weights for crop production and insurance purposes. If it's good enough for govt work, it should be good enough for this deal. :wink:
 
There are so many variations in people's ambitions, abilities, and equipment that one answer doesn't fit all situations.

I'd say if the landowner wants some hay and trusts the person putting it up, then do it on shares. 60/40 seems to be the norm around here for decent hay, but I don't know if I'd put clover hay up for 60%.

If the landowner just wants cash, then negotiate a cash price up front and let the hayer have at it and put it up in whatever condition they are comfortable with.
 
Most all of mine is rented on a per bale price lighter ground tame hay I pay $5 a bale stumpage the better fields are $10 a bale.Around here on shares it's normal for a 2/3rd 1/3rd split lowground is a 3/4 - 1/4 split. We rent some by the acre and that varies from $8 to $25 all depending on how bad I need it.

Another way to figure it is on a share basis and put a value on the hay and purchase the shares.
 

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