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question for angus folks

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scout

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I have a angus bull who goes back to B/r destination for grand sire, Gt shear force maternal grand sire his ced is a +1 presently and it started as a +5 would he be safe on heifers. have four bulls already don't want to buy another for 5 head of hfrs. hfrs are sim angus and herf angus cross. thanks
 
personally, i wouldn't use him on heifers. i like to see at least a +8 CED for heifers. both Destination and Shear Force are fairly proven and neither are what i would call heifer bulls. IMO

is leasing a bull an option?
 
Justin said:
personally, i wouldn't use him on heifers. i like to see at least a +8 CED for heifers. both Destination and Shear Force are fairly proven and neither are what i would call heifer bulls. IMO

is leasing a bull an option?
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was hoping my Hereford guy would get one back in his sale but they sold them all been looking for a cull bull but can't find one to use then cut his head off if its a hefier bull around here its bringing 2500 to 5000 grand now.
 
the bull is smooth shoulderd and long muscled. guy we bought him from had the first calf out of him other day calf weighed 90 pounds he said calf was long. just don't want to take unnessery risk with hfrs there going to add enough size on there own. but it would be so convienet to estur mate them turn him in with hfrs on far paddock and in 30 days run them it with cows. and cull at preg chek
 
I wouldn't use him either. There has to be a better way, like A1ing them all and then redoing the ones that come back into heat.

I guess if he is the only choice you have, chances are the heifer calves would be smaller, one would hope, anyway. :?
 
I would say no on a straight-bred situation since you are crossbreeding I would say HE!! no. Has to be a way to get the girls to an easy calving bull either rent or haul them to someone who has a calving ease sire and pay them or AI. Cattle are too valuable to botch the job.
 
I agree with the others, I wouldn't risk it. I got in a pinch and used a different bull on these heifers last spring, and paid for it this year. He had decent numbers, Image Maker bred, and these females don't have big birthweights, but I still ended up assisting around 20%. I completely understand it may be a convenient choice to use him now, but it may be anything but convenient calving those heifers out next spring. Hope you figure out a good solution :).
 
WB said:
I would say no on a straight-bred situation since you are crossbreeding I would say HE!! no. Has to be a way to get the girls to an easy calving bull either rent or haul them to someone who has a calving ease sire and pay them or AI. Cattle are too valuable to botch the job.
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I would agree on that... Just got a reminder last week ... I had a bull in one pasture last year that had a CED EPD of +14 and a BW EPD of -1.6...His calves from the purebred angus cows were coming between 70-80 lbs... Then all of a sudden out a baldy simm/angus cow a 102 lber..

A reminder that the genetics of the cow can/does play a big role in the size of the calf you get... And I'm a firm believer that often the heterosis we want to get big weaning weights sets in before they are born...
 
Oldtimer said:
WB said:
I would say no on a straight-bred situation since you are crossbreeding I would say HE!! no. Has to be a way to get the girls to an easy calving bull either rent or haul them to someone who has a calving ease sire and pay them or AI. Cattle are too valuable to botch the job.
Click to expand...

I would agree on that... Just got a reminder last week ... I had a bull in one pasture last year that had a CED EPD of +14 and a BW EPD of -1.6...His calves from the purebred angus cows were coming between 70-80 lbs... Then all of a sudden out a baldy simm/angus cow a 102 lber..

A reminder that the genetics of the cow can/does play a big role in the size of the calf you get... And I'm a firm believer that often the heterosis we want to get big weaning weights sets in before they are born...
Click to expand...

"And I'm a firm believer that often the heterosis we want to get big weaning weights sets in before they are born..."

I couldn't agree more. The first time we had C-Sections was when we
crossed Black Angus bulls on Hereford heifers. Of course, this was before
bw epds. But straight-breeding had never been a problem for us and it
hadn't been since. It's not that cross-breeding doesn't work, it just that a person has to be very careful in watching bw in the cows and selecting true low bw bulls. By true, I mean look into the families and contemporaries and see what you find regarding bw. Some of the bulls that are touted in producers catalogs don't satisfy me as being a 'true' heifer bull. The individual bw does not tell the whole story.
 
We have the vet do a repro exam on our heifers. Can surprise you. One year I was going to use Pelvic size to make the final cut on some heifers. I had been selecting for cows that have no calving issues for some time. As he was checking these heifers, he said, "You could breed these to a Charlais Bull."

Didn't help me decide which ones to sell. But, it was nice to hear.

If I didn't know how much "room I had to work with", I'd AI, rent or haul to a bull
 
PATB said:
What are the other 3 bulls you have? What size are calfs are they throwing?
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two other bulls are Hereford one is just a yearling his ced is -1 the older bull throws 85 to 90 lb calves the simm angus bull is possibly there daddy of 3 of them and is a dream on grandson. A I ing is out of the question cause there are no faculitys on the place there going and I would still need a clean up bull unless I just let the good lord sort them and I need the place here to back ground are fall calves so they can't stay here.
 
gcreekrch said:
Haul them to Soapweed's and put them in his heifer pasture, he won't notice. :wink: :D
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With proper notice Soapweed might not mind but I'll bet a Dollar to a Donut that he would notice!
 
George said:
gcreekrch said:
Haul them to Soapweed's and put them in his heifer pasture, he won't notice. :wink: :D
Click to expand...

With proper notice Soapweed might not mind but I'll bet a Dollar to a Donut that he would notice!
Click to expand...

This would work, as long as scout came along to work to pay for their keep.

Scout helped us, as a college intern back in 2002, and he is a good guy to have around.
 
Soapweed said:
George said:
gcreekrch said:
Haul them to Soapweed's and put them in his heifer pasture, he won't notice. :wink: :D
Click to expand...

With proper notice Soapweed might not mind but I'll bet a Dollar to a Donut that he would notice!
Click to expand...

This would work, as long as scout came along to work to pay for their keep.

Scout helped us, as a college intern back in 2002, and he is a good guy to have around.
Click to expand...
west bound and down after I line up the pots because I know how you work on that outfit and i'm not going to work that hard for 5 head i'm bringing all 80 hope you don't mind the herf bulls add a little color to the out fit :)
 
You know, I read the title to this thread and thought the question was going to be simply: "WHY???!!?!?" :p :lol:
 

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