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Question for anti-COOL people

S

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
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18,486
Location
Nebraska
I'd like any of you anti-COOL folks to explain something to me;

I've seen fast food chains selling "Angus burgers". I see restaurants mentioning on their menu that their steaks are Angus. I see Angus beef in the cooler (it costs more than the mystery beef right next to it). Obviously "Angus" would not be promoted by the food and grocery industries if it wasn't beneficial to sales. Yet, probably less than 1% of these consumers who are paying for Angus know a dang thing about an Angus - probably couldn't tell one from a Holstein. Why are they paying for "Angus" when they don't know a thing about the Angus breed?
 
Beef producers not feeling "COOL" under the collar


The National Farmers Union, R-Calf USA, and the U.S. Cattlemen's Association aren't happy about the U.S. Department of Agriculture's implementation plans for mandatory "Country of Origin Labeling," also known as COOL.

The organizations believe that when plans for COOL were set during Farm Bill negotiations, American-produced beef would be segregated during packing and labeled as a product of the United States.

But it appears the USDA is willing to allow packers to circumvent COOL by labeling all beef products under the "multiple countries" category.

Sandy Courtnage of the MT Farmer's Union, said, "Our thought is that by doing that, U.S. producers will not get the benefit of a label...that says 'product of the USA' - period. And consumers won't have that choice and that bit of information."

The Farmers Union, R-Calf, and the Cattlemen's Association are asking Congress to remedy the situation before Country of Origin Labeling goes into effect on October 1st.
 
PORKER said:
Beef producers not feeling "COOL" under the collar


The National Farmers Union, R-Calf USA, and the U.S. Cattlemen's Association aren't happy about the U.S. Department of Agriculture's implementation plans for mandatory "Country of Origin Labeling," also known as COOL.

The organizations believe that when plans for COOL were set during Farm Bill negotiations, American-produced beef would be segregated during packing and labeled as a product of the United States.

But it appears the USDA is willing to allow packers to circumvent COOL by labeling all beef products under the "multiple countries" category.

Sandy Courtnage of the MT Farmer's Union, said, "Our thought is that by doing that, U.S. producers will not get the benefit of a label...that says 'product of the USA' - period. And consumers won't have that choice and that bit of information."

The Farmers Union, R-Calf, and the Cattlemen's Association are asking Congress to remedy the situation before Country of Origin Labeling goes into effect on October 1st.
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I hope the big packers do that!
 
Sandhusker said:
We're getting off track here.....
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Now that's funny! :lol: :lol: Getting off track in the Bull Session, nahhhhhhhhh say it ain't so! :shock:

Let's try back to centre for you Sadhusker.
How much of those Angus burgers are actually 100% Angus and who is enforcing/accountable for that.
 
Correct me if you can prove me wrong, but I believe the Certified Angus Beef (CAB) brand is verifiable as at least half Angus and has to meet standards for quality, such as above a certain USDA quality grade, among others. It has gained a reputation as very good beef. Isn't CAB also trademarked?

Obviously, some businesses are using that fact, plus the gullibility of some consumers, and calling their beef, which may or may not have similar or equal specifications or trademark status, "Angus".

IMO, that is comparable to a low price store in RobertMac or other 'branded' beef location calling their lower quality product by a very similar name and using a similar appearing label, possibly changed just enough to escape legal action....IF the other brand IS trademarked. In other words, an almost legal copy of a known and loved product.

COOL started out as a misleading law and it is ending by misleading!

Porker, what is the date of that 'story'? Weren't all those groups at the recent meeting in KC,MO where they all agreed on the final rules.......or is this another case of them agreeing, then changing their mind after the fact????

mrj
 
Mrj , according to press reports this morning ,they have changed their minds. Also after calling Congressman Bart Stupak this morning,he has found out this morning that someone at USDA that controls the interm Final rules changed the writing to favor FMI and the packers on this labeling issue.
 
mrj said:
Correct me if you can prove me wrong, but I believe the Certified Angus Beef (CAB) brand is verifiable as at least half Angus and has to meet standards for quality, such as above a certain USDA quality grade, among others. It has gained a reputation as very good beef. Isn't CAB also trademarked?

Obviously, some businesses are using that fact, plus the gullibility of some consumers, and calling their beef, which may or may not have similar or equal specifications or trademark status, "Angus".

IMO, that is comparable to a low price store in RobertMac or other 'branded' beef location calling their lower quality product by a very similar name and using a similar appearing label, possibly changed just enough to escape legal action....IF the other brand IS trademarked. In other words, an almost legal copy of a known and loved product.

COOL started out as a misleading law and it is ending by misleading!

Porker, what is the date of that 'story'? Weren't all those groups at the recent meeting in KC,MO where they all agreed on the final rules.......or is this another case of them agreeing, then changing their mind after the fact????

mrj
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Hi MRJ, Just to clarify, CAB is not verifiable that it is at least half Angus. It does have to meet quality standards but absolutely does not have to be at least half Angus.

http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/corp/about/What are the Certified Angus Beef ® brand specifications?
The process begins with only the highest quality, Angus-influenced cattle with predominantly (51%) solid black hair coat or AngusSource® genetic verification. Ten science-based quality specifications address beef flavor, tenderness and juiciness.

They dont have to have an ounce of Angus blood in them as long as they are black and meet the quality specs.
 
Correct me if you can prove me wrong, but I believe the Certified Angus Beef (CAB) brand is verifiable as at least half Angus
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Nope. Not "verifiable" 1/2 ANY BREED!!!!!

Just meet the grading specs and be black, that's it. And many will tell you that have sold in to the CAB market, that some aren't even black. :roll:
 
Mike said:
Correct me if you can prove me wrong, but I believe the Certified Angus Beef (CAB) brand is verifiable as at least half Angus
Click to expand...

Nope. Not "verifiable" 1/2 ANY BREED!!!!!

Just meet the grading specs and be black, that's it. And many will tell you that have sold in to the CAB market, that some aren't even black. :roll:
Click to expand...

Yep-- I've been told that just the black noses on the smokies can qualify them...
Its just that CAB did a fantastic advertising and marketing program- and we could be doing the same with the Checkoff funds and USA BEEF- if it wasn't for the Maxines and a few other old fogies in NCBA that are tied at the hips with AMI and generic beef...

Australia and Canada use checkoff funds to promote their countries beef- Lamb producers use sheep checkoff funds to promote US lamb- but beef has been hamstrung by the NCBA's old fashioned thinking and control of the checkoff.. :(
 
Bill and MRJ, you are both completely missing the point. Those consumers that are buying the Angus name don't know a dang thing about what qualifies or any of that. The "Angus" name is why they are buying, and even spending more.

WHY?
 
Sandhusker said:
I'd like any of you anti-COOL folks to explain something to me;

I've seen fast food chains selling "Angus burgers". I see restaurants mentioning on their menu that their steaks are Angus. I see Angus beef in the cooler (it costs more than the mystery beef right next to it). Obviously "Angus" would not be promoted by the food and grocery industries if it wasn't beneficial to sales. Yet, probably less than 1% of these consumers who are paying for Angus know a dang thing about an Angus - probably couldn't tell one from a Holstein. Why are they paying for "Angus" when they don't know a thing about the Angus breed?
Click to expand...

Sandhusker, what does Angus have to do with M-COOL?
 
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker said:
I'd like any of you anti-COOL folks to explain something to me;

I've seen fast food chains selling "Angus burgers". I see restaurants mentioning on their menu that their steaks are Angus. I see Angus beef in the cooler (it costs more than the mystery beef right next to it). Obviously "Angus" would not be promoted by the food and grocery industries if it wasn't beneficial to sales. Yet, probably less than 1% of these consumers who are paying for Angus know a dang thing about an Angus - probably couldn't tell one from a Holstein. Why are they paying for "Angus" when they don't know a thing about the Angus breed?
Click to expand...

Sandhusker, what does Angus have to do with M-COOL?
Click to expand...

I'm getting there, Ben... First, I want the anti's to use their own heads for a second.
 
Sandhusker said:
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker said:
I'd like any of you anti-COOL folks to explain something to me;

I've seen fast food chains selling "Angus burgers". I see restaurants mentioning on their menu that their steaks are Angus. I see Angus beef in the cooler (it costs more than the mystery beef right next to it). Obviously "Angus" would not be promoted by the food and grocery industries if it wasn't beneficial to sales. Yet, probably less than 1% of these consumers who are paying for Angus know a dang thing about an Angus - probably couldn't tell one from a Holstein. Why are they paying for "Angus" when they don't know a thing about the Angus breed?
Click to expand...

Sandhusker, what does Angus have to do with M-COOL?
Click to expand...

I'm getting there, Ben... First, I want the anti's to use their own heads for a second.
Click to expand...

Good luck Sandhusker. Don't hold your breath. They are used to being led around, not using their own heads.
 
Here is a group taking action on COOL, got this from company;Because of USDA's broad exemptions for 'processed' foods, minimally processed foods such as roasted nuts, frozen vegetables, and smoked bacon will not have to be labeled with their country of origin. Apparently, food processors can identify the origin of foods such as nuts when they're raw, but they forget where they're from as soon as they roast them.

It's silly that roasting, smoking, curing, or freezing whole foods makes them exempt from labeling. Can you ask USDA to fix these loopholes so we can know where more of our food is coming from? Even labels on meat origin has been tampered with,,, Tex and Sandhusker


http://action.foodandwaterwatch.org/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=25924
 
Sorry, didn't realize "advertising" was the buzz word you were after.

Big deal, but are you certain that is the ONLY reason for popularity of CAB, therefore "Angus" in a name?

I should have known better about the requirement for percentage Angus, or lack thereof, as I've heard several promotional/informational talks about CAB......and the problems with 'copycat' brands that give disappointing eating experienes which turns some people off to the CAB branded beef.

OT, what is the amount of the Australian beef checkoff per head now? Las time I heard it, maybe five years ago, it was about $7.00 per head.

Do we really want to match our puny $1.00 per head Checkoff up against that in advertising country of origin????

R-culters have claimed that all that is needed is a "Product of USA" label.

OT, when you claim that NCBA controls the Beef Checkoff, please furnish number of NCBA members contrasted with number of other catle organizations representatives on the Cattlemens' Beef Board.

In SD and in many other states, there are representatives of all statewide cattle organizations on the state and the national Beef Checkoff boards.

The fact that NCBA does contractual work for the Beef Checkoff does not give them any control over those projects. The projects are determined and awarded by CBB board members, NOT by the NCBA members board.

That some cattle producers, myself included, believe that it serves us best to be using our precious few available Beef Checkoff dollars advertising ALL beef without differentiating country of origin does not make us wrong.

We know that only about 3% of beef sold in retail stores is imported and advertising USA beef would cost more than is justified, IMO. Not to mention losing the millions contributed by importers to the Beef Checkoff if that were done. There are better returns on other Checkoff projects, given that the goal is selling more beef.

One of few reasons to advertise US beef, IMO, would be if there was difficulty getting consumers to buy it. There isn't!

Under COOL, there will be something like 30 percent of all beef (and a whopping 3% of imported) labelled with country of origin in the major national chain grocery stores affected by the law. Think about it......30 PERCENT of ALL beef sold in the USA goes through retail stores! We do not need an ADDITIONAL expensive advertising campaign, since we already target retail stores with some specialized advertising, but most of it is in magazines and newspapers which reach more people for less money.

mrj
 
Sorry, didn't realize "advertising" was the buzz word you were after.

Hooray! MRJ guessed right!

Big deal, but are you certain that is the ONLY reason for popularity of CAB, therefore "Angus" in a name?

Tell me what other reason any consumer who knows nothing material about Angus would buy?

R-culters have claimed that all that is needed is a "Product of USA" label.

Yes, we've noticed that in many cases all that is needed is an "Angus" label, and we thought about that and how to apply it on a larger scale. What is it going to take for NCBAers to figure out the obvious?

The fact that NCBA does contractual work for the Beef Checkoff does not give them any control over those projects. The projects are determined and awarded by CBB board members, NOT by the NCBA members board.

Are any CBB board members NCBA members? Ever hear of a "conflict of interest"?

One of few reasons to advertise US beef, IMO, would be if there was difficulty getting consumers to buy it. There isn't!

You can sell anything if the price is right to the buyer, MRJ. The checkoff is a failure if the price isn't right to the seller.

All you anti-COOLers, MRJ had the right answer. When you cut it to the bare bones, all advertising is about is telling people to buy your product. And, IT WORKS! The Angus program proves that! Why else is advertising a multi-billion dollar industry? People are buying Angus beef - and spending more for it - simply because they were told to. That's all it is. They don't know a damn thing about Angus - not a damn thing - but they're paying a premium for it simply because a job well done by the Angus people has them thinking that Angus is synonomous with quality.

That is what COOL and a focused checkoff can do for US beef. Just like the "Buy Angus" program has been a money maker for the Angus growers, a "Buy US" program can be a money maker for US producers. Now that consumers can find it, they just have to be told what to buy.
 
I will say one thing that since the the oil price rise and less driving that is going on ,the eat out group is eating out less according to the news and I believe that MRJ ( 30 PERCENT of ALL beef sold in the USA goes through retail stores! )30 % value is now maybe 45% of all meat purchased over the counter. If this happens then COOL labeling really becomes important.
 

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