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Question for you folks in the really cold country?

I think that hay is more palatable when ran through a processor, especially anything that tends to be pretty stemy or was not put up the best. The down side compared to feeding loose stacked hay is your ability to bed cattle down. You can still bed them with a processor, just not as heavy as you can with stacked hay. The other thing I like about a processor compared to just unrolling hay is the fact that I can control how much I put on the ground. I have a 6 bale processor and a bale bed, I have trouble controling the amount of hay I put on the ground with the bale bed. With a processor I can control how fast the bale is ground as well as the speed of my tractor, I can also feed in a bunk or on the ground as well as blow hay into a barn or cover bare ground.
 
Sorry, I didn't really give you an opinion in my last post. I think the key is, no matter what kind of feed you use, is to make sure that your cattle are full before a cold snap hits. If I see a really cold spell coming I will feed no less than 3 days worth of feed. My cows fill up which creates rumen activity, I would say rumen activity probably generates as much heat as anything you can do for a cow. By feeding for several days my cows will not be short of feed and if by chance I can not get to them, I know they are fed.
 
Ohh boy Here I go again-bale processors won't make poor hay better but they can make good hay worse-where we feed in deep snow you get tyhe leaves etc either blown away by the wind or trampled in. I honestly think their niche is for spreading bedding in a feedlot as far as on a cow calf outfit unless your blowing it into bunks they probably eat up any perceived savings in operating costs.In real cold weather a cow probably stays warmer digesting long hay like she was designed to do-if I remember right from college you processed feed so they could increase consumption as it was digested quicker yet the main claim to fame wth bale processors is they save feed. I'll start bracing myself now because the guys who love iron love their chopppers-they might work for some but any time we used one I never saw an advantage. One thing they did do well was salvage about a 1,000 heated canola bales-we got them shredded into swaths and basically swath grazed them all winter-they stopped heating once processed.
 
Flying S is dead right on the being full in a cold snap-in the next week we'l start setting out our bale grazing paddocks. The cows will basically have feed placed out for next three months-we'll just have to open gates to feed them. It's a bad feeling to hit minus 40 and have hungry cows and froze up machinery. I'll try and set up feed in some real sheltered areas to move too if a bad storm hits.
 
The easier any feed is to digest the less heat will be generated in the digestive process. I have seen in a feedlot environment when you cut back grain to feedlot animals in a blizzard the snow will melt off of their backs faster than as opposed to keeping them on a full fed ration. Based on my observations I always feed long stem hay when it is extremely cold.
 
Just so NR knows that he is not alone on the processor issue I will chirp in on this one. First of all you can not make bad hay good by chopping it. Yes it might be easier to blend with better hay by chopping them together but you risk blowing all the good parts of the good hay in the air thus making it poorer hay than it was before. I do own a processor but it has not run in several years. I used to bed with it but moved calving to a more reasonable time and it became redundant. (keep it because iron is a hobby) Long stem hay provides the cow with something to chew and something for the bugs in the rumen to do. The bug action creates heat and the cow is kept warm because of it. Chopping hay speeds the digestion process and has the possibility of decreasing the quality of the hay. In my case it is a waste of time and fuel. (I do see the reason for their use, not trying to start a fight. If you are using one you have your reasons) Really we need only to look at Grassfarmers operation to realize that cows can do well on long stem feed in cold temps.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Ohh boy Here I go again-bale processors won't make poor hay better but they can make good hay worse-where we feed in deep snow you get tyhe leaves etc either blown away by the wind or trampled in. I honestly think their niche is for spreading bedding in a feedlot as far as on a cow calf outfit unless your blowing it into bunks they probably eat up any perceived savings in operating costs.In real cold weather a cow probably stays warmer digesting long hay like she was designed to do-if I remember right from college you processed feed so they could increase consumption as it was digested quicker yet the main claim to fame wth bale processors is they save feed. I'll start bracing myself now because the guys who love iron love their chopppers-they might work for some but any time we used one I never saw an advantage. One thing they did do well was salvage about a 1,000 heated canola bales-we got them shredded into swaths and basically swath grazed them all winter-they stopped heating once processed.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 110% on this NR. The only reason you would want to process feed is to get feeder cattle to eat more.
At least with long hay they have a better chance to utilize more of it out of the snow. A silage bale wrapper makes better feed than the idea of beating the mold out of heated bales. :wink:
 
I agree with the other posters that say digesting longer hay will generate more heat. Besides I'm reluctant to spend money chopping or grinding hay when cows have teeth and time on their hands to do the same job. We usually feed pit silage which is chopped very short but always feed long straw in feed rings with it. We notice the animals hit the straw harder when it's very cold - sometimes even ahead of a storm so I'm guessing the cows vote is for longer in cold weather!
I largely agree with NR on the bale processors but admit I have one - I bought an old one before I knew any better lol. We use it to bed with and it's convenient for that and makes the bedding straw go farther. We have occasionally fed with it and as we don't feed much alfalfa don't find the losses are as big as indicated in research. I always clear a path through the snow with the loader bucket before putting the feed down and that way the cows can lick it right off the ground. I have a friend that swears by his processor but he usually buys early cut hay that was rained on very cheap and uses the processor to blow out the dust and mold. I thought he was crazy when I saw this first but his hay is bought on analysis and is usually better than later made hay put up in good condition. I have never known him to have a problem with the cows ingesting mold or dust but sometimes when he feeds you can't see the tractor for the black clouds :shock:
 
per said:
Just so NR knows that he is not alone on the processor issue I will chirp in on this one. First of all you can not make bad hay good by chopping it. Yes it might be easier to blend with better hay by chopping them together but you risk blowing all the good parts of the good hay in the air thus making it poorer hay than it was before. I do own a processor but it has not run in several years. I used to bed with it but moved calving to a more reasonable time and it became redundant. (keep it because iron is a hobby) Long stem hay provides the cow with something to chew and something for the bugs in the rumen to do. The bug action creates heat and the cow is kept warm because of it. Chopping hay speeds the digestion process and has the possibility of decreasing the quality of the hay. In my case it is a waste of time and fuel. (I do see the reason for their use, not trying to start a fight. If you are using one you have your reasons) Really we need only to look at Grassfarmers operation to realize that cows can do well on long stem feed in cold temps.
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I've fed hay with both processors and bale beds, not to mention having pitched (with a fork, by hand :wink: ) a great plenty in years gone by. You can get much better "mileage" out of long stemmed unchopped hay. It doesn't take nearly as much long-stemmed hay to fill up a hungry cow as it does the processed hay. I would venture to say that there is nearly a 25% savings in quantity needed.
 
Ab Ag did a study on this. Unrolled hay had 12.1% losses when fed on snow, processed was at 19.2%. The biggest difference was that the processed hay lost a lot of quality, since most of the losses were fines.
Basically the only way I can understand it properly is...
If you fed 180 1300# bales you lost
23.1 bales of weight and 31.6 bales of nutrients by unrolling on snow - have to feed 211.6 bales
34.5 bales of weight and 51.5 bales of nutrients by grinding onto snow - have to feed 231.5 bales
The cheapest method counting for feed loss/labour/etc. was unrolling onto snow. They figured out that portable bunks (very basic) dropped the losses to nearly 0 and saved $28 per heifer over a 175 day feeding period. The feeders they designed are just two foot high pipe rectangles with lumber sides and were fit for about 40 head and were paid for in feed savings in 48 days. If you are going to shred, shred into troughs was the message.
They did some work on feeding pit silage on snow as well.
 
I agree that long-stemmed hay takes longer to digest.
Grass hay creates more energy than alfalfa hay, because alfalfa
digests faster.
You can't make bad hay any more nutritious with a processor or
grinder; you CAN
get the cows to eat more when you process it, but you can't make
the hay any better.
We use a bale processor. Mr. FH loves it; it has a scale on it so
he knows how much he feeds. We have a smaller ranch and find
it more efficient to know how much hay is being fed. I figured when
we added the scale to the bale processor that it would take saving
50 ton of hay @ $50/ton to pay for the scale.
With the processor you can choose how fine to process the hay;
he likes it that it makes a windrow and there is not so much waste as
when you lay hay down with a bale bed, or simply to use a tractor
tire to unroll the bales. He's not very scientific about it, but he's happy with the processor and he used
to come in very upset when he just rolled a bale out any way he could.
He did have a spinner that he used to unroll the hay and it worked ok,
but you can't even the hay out; some comes off in big chunks with
the spinner. So, he's very happy with the bale processor. And he
really thinks some are better than others. And he doesn't care for grinding
hay for range cattle. We tried it once--what a mess--
 
I have to agree with the above posters on the bale grinder. I do not own and have no plans to, just another piece of machinery to rust and need repairs. I place out bales for cows to eat and the waste becomes bedding. The better quality hay is fed in bale feeder wagons most of the time. This year I have had to place hay on the snow to get the cows to pack it down and let the mud freeze underneath to feed in a larger area. The cows will eat more before a storm or lower pressure cell moves thru.
 
RSL said:
Ab Ag did a study on this. Unrolled hay had 12.1% losses when fed on snow, processed was at 19.2%. The biggest difference was that the processed hay lost a lot of quality, since most of the losses were fines.
Basically the only way I can understand it properly is...
If you fed 180 1300# bales you lost
23.1 bales of weight and 31.6 bales of nutrients by unrolling on snow - have to feed 211.6 bales
34.5 bales of weight and 51.5 bales of nutrients by grinding onto snow - have to feed 231.5 bales
The cheapest method counting for feed loss/labour/etc. was unrolling onto snow. They figured out that portable bunks (very basic) dropped the losses to nearly 0 and saved $28 per heifer over a 175 day feeding period. The feeders they designed are just two foot high pipe rectangles with lumber sides and were fit for about 40 head and were paid for in feed savings in 48 days. If you are going to shred, shred into troughs was the message.
They did some work on feeding pit silage on snow as well.
Click to expand...

The disadvantage of bunks is that you can't let the cows spread their own manure. By feeding in a different area each day, unrolling the hay on the ground, there is no manure that needs to be hauled.

Another advantage of rolling hay out is the wind factor, of which there is plenty in this country. The wind really blows away a lot of hay chopped through a processor.
 
I run about 20 head of mares and their foals all winter with the cows-they pretty much eliminate waste because they love to go paw through where you fed the week before-then they go back there in late spring-they'll leave a fresh feed spot to go do it.
 
We just came through a pretty cold spell, even by our standards. Our cows walked a half mile every day to graze corn, and even minus 30 with a wind didn't stop them. They have access to a sheltered corral that has a good straw pack built up to sleep on at night, and were totally happy to get up in the morning and make the hike back to the corn.

We don't have a processor for the same reason we don't make silage for the cows out of our corn. We're too cheap (or is it broke :? ) to pay for the extra fuel and equipment when the cows are perfectly capable of going and getting their own feed. Long hay, even if there is some waste, makes more sense to us. I don't think the waste is quite as high as the wind can create in cut hay. And boy, do we get wind. One day last week Hubby broke a straw bale for bedding, and half of it blew away as soon as the twine was cut. I bet a processor would have lost everything in that wind. :shock:

So for us, the less money we spend processing feed, the better. The cows are pretty good at doing it themselves. :D
 
Soapweed said:
RSL said:
Ab Ag did a study on this. Unrolled hay had 12.1% losses when fed on snow, processed was at 19.2%. The biggest difference was that the processed hay lost a lot of quality, since most of the losses were fines.
Basically the only way I can understand it properly is...
If you fed 180 1300# bales you lost
23.1 bales of weight and 31.6 bales of nutrients by unrolling on snow - have to feed 211.6 bales
34.5 bales of weight and 51.5 bales of nutrients by grinding onto snow - have to feed 231.5 bales
The cheapest method counting for feed loss/labour/etc. was unrolling onto snow. They figured out that portable bunks (very basic) dropped the losses to nearly 0 and saved $28 per heifer over a 175 day feeding period. The feeders they designed are just two foot high pipe rectangles with lumber sides and were fit for about 40 head and were paid for in feed savings in 48 days. If you are going to shred, shred into troughs was the message.
They did some work on feeding pit silage on snow as well.
Click to expand...

The disadvantage of bunks is that you can't let the cows spread their own manure. By feeding in a different area each day, unrolling the hay on the ground, there is no manure that needs to be hauled.

Another advantage of rolling hay out is the wind factor, of which there is plenty in this country. The wind really blows away a lot of hay chopped through a processor.
Click to expand...

I agree with that Soapweed. We have been theorizing about a bastardized bale grazing system where we would line up bales and then have a feeder where one end opens and drag it around the bales, but we are pretty lazy, so we will likely just let them graze and let the chips fall where they may so to speak. We have been looking into corn for grazing.
 
We fed with a processor for a while, and found about the same thing as Soapweed. The big green cloud in the air above the thing while it was working was a bit of a hint as to where all those nice nutritious alfalfa leaves where going :?
I think one could pay for a fair bit of extra hay between what is lost with a processor and the extra fuel and maintenance incurred by running these machines. In our case it was the processor that was the main culprit in taking out a pretty expensive pto on the feeding tractor.
Nowadays we just set out 2 days worth of bales at a time for the cows and let them fill up and spread their manure where they like. We'd set out more but the Queen's cows get pretty hard on it.
 

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