Question

[Traveler]

Regarding the occasional aggravating calf that won't suck the cow, and won't suck a bottle, until you've worked with it several times. Would you make a notation so that a heifer calf that's done this would not be considered when picking replacements, and figure that's how mother nature would have culled it, or not. Am going to go work with one again that won't suck, and got to thinking about the chance of this type of problem, although rare, being something we've brought on ourselves.

 

[Denny]

I would make a notation but I would also pay attention tto the vigor on all of that sire groups calves.Vs. other sire groups. I don't blame everything on the cow she had a partner in the bundle of joy.

 

[Big Swede]

Sometimes a lack of a vitamin or mineral can cause slow calves too. There are lots of reasons I think.

 

[Faster horses]

Sometimes a lack of a vitamin or mineral can cause slow calves too. There are lots of reasons I think.

Correct. I also think that calves that are large at birth have more problems in this area. A good ole' rancher told me once that those heavy BW calves take so long to be born sometimes, that they are deprived of oxygen which makes them slow to come around, suck, etc.

 

[littlejoe]

One of the finest stockman I've known had a sharp knife.

Any female doctored for anything got a split ear. Knowing him, I imagine other criteria also earned one.

 

[Traveler]

Good points. The heifer calf that spurred me to post this is Angus from a large AI group, a few lbs lighter than average, and not weak. Just won't suck, acts like the milk, be it from the cow or some colostrum supplement from a bag tastes bad. I'm going to estimate some variation on this happens with ~1%.

Maybe some more useful information than some of the EPD info on bulls for sale would be if it had to be tubed, or did it get right up and nurse. :wink:

 

[George]

Sometimes a lack of a vitamin or mineral can cause slow calves too. There are lots of reasons I think.

Correct. I also think that calves that are large at birth have more problems in this area. A good ole' rancher told me once that those heavy BW calves take so long to be born sometimes, that they are deprived of oxygen which makes them slow to come around, suck, etc.

My Vet told me that almost word for word several decades ago - - - I turned the bull in the 10th of June last year so I feel I should start soon - - - Monday is the target but I'm checking at least twice daily now just in case. I hope we get close to normal weather for the next little while.

Grandpa always told me not to count on good weather around here till past Easter - - - April 20th sure seems far away!

 

[Silver]

Sometimes a lack of a vitamin or mineral can cause slow calves too. There are lots of reasons I think.

Correct. I also think that calves that are large at birth have more problems in this area. A good ole' rancher told me once that those heavy BW calves take so long to be born sometimes, that they are deprived of oxygen which makes them slow to come around, suck, etc.

A calf that has taken too long to be born is pretty obvious to spot, they get pretty puffy in the face. The longer the birth the more swelling. These calves are usually trouble. Big calves do tend to be '"dumber" on average, but aren't necessarily born with any more difficulty than a smaller calf depending on how the mother handles things. A big calf for one cow may be an average sized calf for another.
I tend to agree with the vitamin theory more than genetics. We've kept track in the past and have not seen anything to lead us to think that if a cow has a slow starting calf one year she will the next.

 

[Kato]

It's been about 10 years, since we had one of those, but I remember one in particular that was almost two weeks old before the light came on. However, the light always does come on. Persevere. Calves are worth money now. Just don't keep it for a cow. There are too many bright ones around to be keeping a dumb one.

 

[Howdy1]

I had a calf a few years ago that absolutely refused to suck. His mother had a big bag with those "balloon tits" and I couldn't get him to suck her or the bottle. I tubed him several days with milk and was about at my wits end when I walked into the shed and the little bugger was sucking. We came to the realization that he had been sucking all along, the those big tits would fill up so fast we couldn't tell. Here I had been force feeding him and he must of been miserable with a constant full belly. It is kinda funny as I sit here and write about it but wasn't at the time. She raised a big calf but the was the last one around here for her.

 

[Anonymous]

Good points. The heifer calf that spurred me to post this is Angus from a large AI group, a few lbs lighter than average, and not weak. Just won't suck, acts like the milk, be it from the cow or some colostrum supplement from a bag tastes bad. I'm going to estimate some variation on this happens with ~1%.

Maybe some more useful information than some of the EPD info on bulls for sale would be if it had to be tubed, or did it get right up and nurse. :wink:

The thing that one needs to remember is that the bulls genetics make up only half of equation- which shows up in several ways ...

I was reminded of that just yesterday when I had two calves bred by the same calving ease (+14 CED) low BW (-1.6 ) EPD bull...
The first calf out of a registered angus cow that has calving ease (+11 CED) and low BW ( -.5 ) EPD... Her bull calf weighed a nice 78 lbs..
Within an hour one of the simmiXangus cows we have left had a calf... Her bull calf weighed 98 lbs...

 

[cowman52]

I've found a shot of whiskey helps, one for me and one for the calf.

 

[kolanuraven]

Sometimes a lack of a vitamin or mineral can cause slow calves too. There are lots of reasons I think.

Get some Bo-Se and Vit B12 for it. Your vet will have it and it's not expensive.


The milk replacer probably does taste bad...sure smells bad.

 

[Big Swede]

Good points. The heifer calf that spurred me to post this is Angus from a large AI group, a few lbs lighter than average, and not weak. Just won't suck, acts like the milk, be it from the cow or some colostrum supplement from a bag tastes bad. I'm going to estimate some variation on this happens with ~1%.

Maybe some more useful information than some of the EPD info on bulls for sale would be if it had to be tubed, or did it get right up and nurse. :wink:

The thing that one needs to remember is that the bulls genetics make up only half of equation- which shows up in several ways ...

I was reminded of that just yesterday when I had two calves bred by the same calving ease (+14 CED) low BW (-1.6 ) EPD bull...
The first calf out of a registered angus cow that has calving ease (+11 CED) and low BW ( -.5 ) EPD... Her bull calf weighed a nice 78 lbs..
Within an hour one of the simmiXangus cows we have left had a calf... Her bull calf weighed 98 lbs...

That's what scares me more than anything about cross breeding, that extra kick in birth weight. I still watch my heifers and can help one if they need it, but they are on their own after that. If a cow can't have a calf on her own around here I'm going to probably lose the whole family. In fact the first year I calved on pasture I would be holding my breath thinking that over the next hill that's what I would find. Some day I probably will but the odds are very slim in my herd. I wouldn't be that confident with cross breeding.

 

[Faster horses]

Not just cross-breeding, but in any mating, BW is 70% inherited from the COW. So if you have large BW in your cattle as a norm, using a light BW bull isn't going to totally solve the problem.


When you could get squeezable plastic baby bottles, I would use that as a good tool to get a calf to suck. Squeeze the milk into the back of the mouth, shut the mouth, tip the chin up and lightly rub the throat. Once the calf would swallow some milk, he would catch on. (this worked most of the time).

And not all milk replacer smells bad. If yours does, change brands.

 

[3 M L & C]

Not just cross-breeding, but in any mating, BW is 70% inherited from the COW. So if you have large BW in your cattle as a norm, using a light BW bull isn't going to totally solve the problem.


When you could get squeezable plastic baby bottles, I would use that as a good tool to get a calf to suck. Squeeze the milk into the back of the mouth, shut the mouth, tip the chin up and lightly rub the throat. Once the calf would swallow some milk, he would catch on. (this worked most of the time).

And not all milk replacer smells bad. If yours does, change brands.

Why do you say 70% of bw is from the cow? Because of how you feed them or what? I have never heard of this if it's just because of genetics.

 

[Soapweed]

When you could get squeezable plastic baby bottles, I would use that as a good tool to get a calf to suck. Squeeze the milk into the back of the mouth, shut the mouth, tip the chin up and lightly rub the throat. Once the calf would swallow some milk, he would catch on. (this worked most of the time).

And not all milk replacer smells bad. If yours does, change brands.

The esophageal feeders are very handy to use, but before they were invented our method was to use a glass pop bottle. You would straddle the calf, grab its tongue with one hand, and then pour a swig of milk down its throat from the pop bottle with the other hand. The calf would swallow that swig, and then the operation was repeated. This procedure had a way of developing the sucking process, and soon they would figure out how to suck either the cow's teat or a nipple bottle.

 

[LazyWP]

Years ago, Watkins used to make a powdered calf electrolyte, that worked wonders on getting calves to start sucking It came in a plastic bucket, with a little scoop in it.
A few years ago, we bought a 4 day old calf at the salebarn. Never could get her to take a bottle, but she would drink from a bucket, sorta. She was on full grain for over 2 years, before we butchered her. Wasn't the most cost effective beef we ever had, but it was sure good, and tender.

 

[Faster horses]

Years ago, Watkins used to make a powdered calf electrolyte, that worked wonders on getting calves to start sucking It came in a plastic bucket, with a little scoop in it.
A few years ago, we bought a 4 day old calf at the salebarn. Never could get her to take a bottle, but she would drink from a bucket, sorta. She was on full grain for over 2 years, before we butchered her. Wasn't the most cost effective beef we ever had, but it was sure good, and tender.

We had the same kind of deal. A heifer calf that would NOT suck anything. So we bucket broke her. She wasn't the biggest calf in the fall by any means, but she was okay. We needed to build numbers so we kept her as a replacement. She bred up fine and stayed in the herd a long time. That was back around 1970. Would we do the same thing today???? Not sure. But it worked once...

 

[Soapweed]

Years ago, Watkins used to make a powdered calf electrolyte, that worked wonders on getting calves to start sucking It came in a plastic bucket, with a little scoop in it.
A few years ago, we bought a 4 day old calf at the salebarn. Never could get her to take a bottle, but she would drink from a bucket, sorta. She was on full grain for over 2 years, before we butchered her. Wasn't the most cost effective beef we ever had, but it was sure good, and tender.

We had the same kind of deal. A heifer calf that would NOT suck anything. So we bucket broke her. She wasn't the biggest calf in the fall by any means, but she was okay. We needed to build numbers so we kept her as a replacement. She bred up fine and stayed in the herd a long time. That was back around 1970. Would we do the same thing today???? Not sure. But it worked once...

I've always heard that if a calf drinks from a bucket on the ground, they are more apt to look "poddy" (which is not a flattering term). If they drink from a nipple that is up in the air, like from a cow's udder, they develop in more natural fashion.