Kato said:Won't that allow an avenue for any prion infected product or cattle they send to get mixed into the US cattle feed?
:???: A question here ...
How would any infected product from anywhere get into US cattle feed? Are you allowing beef byproducts to be fed to American cattle?
Oldtimer said:MRJ said:Oldtimer said:I know its Fact- I've seen it done...Period.....
These are individuals -- some of which are in the hierarchy of NCBA...
MRJ said:Oldtimer said:MRJ said:These are individuals -- some of which are in the hierarchy of NCBA...
So...OT,.....which of your premises are you talking about? Is it verifiable NCBA policy, or is it a whim or stand of an individual?
OT, first, how can NCBA be blamed for the actions of individual members, not acting for the organization in any official capacity, who simply choose to secure memberships in their own way........if that even is true. I really cannot believe it, unless you want to name some names. Would you put into that category someone who gifts a family member or friend with a membership in NCBA? What about the "gift" memberships in R-CALF? Wouldn't those be "ghost" members?
Second, there is no "hierarchy" of NCBA.
Hierarchy; 1. any group of persons or things arranged in successive orders or classes, each of which is subject to or dependent on the one above it. Some of the other definitions may make me change my mind.
5. Theol. a. Any of the three ranks of angels, each of which is divided into three orders. b. The body of angels collectively. However NCBA leaders are characteristicly such modest and humble people they would be embarrassed to be called "angels".
MRJ
Oldtimer said:MRJ said:Oldtimer said:So...OT,.....which of your premises are you talking about? Is it verifiable NCBA policy, or is it a whim or stand of an individual?
OT, first, how can NCBA be blamed for the actions of individual members, not acting for the organization in any official capacity, who simply choose to secure memberships in their own way........if that even is true. I really cannot believe it, unless you want to name some names. Would you put into that category someone who gifts a family member or friend with a membership in NCBA? What about the "gift" memberships in R-CALF? Wouldn't those be "ghost" members?
Second, there is no "hierarchy" of NCBA.
Hierarchy; 1. any group of persons or things arranged in successive orders or classes, each of which is subject to or dependent on the one above it. Some of the other definitions may make me change my mind.
5. Theol. a. Any of the three ranks of angels, each of which is divided into three orders. b. The body of angels collectively. However NCBA leaders are characteristicly such modest and humble people they would be embarrassed to be called "angels".
MRJ
MRJ- You the hypocrite :!: --blame any R-CALF member that ever said anything or any livestock owner that ever said anything pro R-CALF on the radio as an R-CALF official statement- but when the officers, past officers, committee chairpersons of NCBA do or saysomething- its not connected to NCBA :wink: :lol: ....
MRJ said:Oldtimer said:MRJ said:MRJ- You the hypocrite :!: --blame any R-CALF member that ever said anything or any livestock owner that ever said anything pro R-CALF on the radio as an R-CALF official statement- but when the officers, past officers, committee chairpersons of NCBA do or saysomething- its not connected to NCBA :wink: :lol: ....
You are the liar, here, OT. I have NEVER said those guys were saying the "official" R-CALF statement....and if it were simply "pro R-CALF" stuff, I would have no problem......however, I do believe R-CALF makes use of those guys to say things they don't have to take the blame for themselves. The auction market owners who do the talking on radio and in their newspaper ads raise an awful lot of money for R-CALF and I've never seen or heard any "official" of R-CALF call them on the worst of the lies they have stated in those ads. I've noticed lately that Johnny Smith has changed from saying that "NCBA is living off checkoff money" (which is impossible, due to the law) to just saying "give your money to R-CALF, they are the ones working for you and don't have the checkoff" or similar words.
If, as you indicate, you are talking of simply buying memberships for people,or doing business only with members........are you telling me that there is no one in R-CALF or it's affiliates doing that? Are you telling me there is anything wrong with doing that? Maybe both groups should publish their membership list and whether or not those members are of legal age, or own cattle in their own name or business name.
MRJ
Sandbag: "That is why they abandon a zero tolerance policy for the packer's checkbook? That is why they petition the OIE to LOWER standards? That is why we take product nobody else in the world will take? Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeze"
~SH~ said:OT,
USDA is following the best available science which considers what precatuionary measures have been taken including the ruminent feed ban, SRM removal, increased surveilance testing, banning the slaughter or downer cows, and restricting imported live cattle from countries suspected of BSE.
~SH~
Oldtimer said:~SH~ said:OT,
USDA is following the best available science which considers what precatuionary measures have been taken including the ruminent feed ban, SRM removal, increased surveilance testing, banning the slaughter or downer cows, and restricting imported live cattle from countries suspected of BSE.
~SH~
SH- Do you read the news?--The US is importing live cattle from a country (Canada) with BSE- and beef of all ages from a country with many cases (Japan) that finds new cases monthly, and has proposed opening the border to cattle and beef of all ages from Canada...Both Canada and Japan have found BSE positive cattle that were born after the feed ban....
This is what necessitates the further strengthening of what til now have been adequate safeguards...
Knowing how heavily influenced Federal government agencies can be by the Corporate interests leaves me with little faith in either the USDA or FDA- especially since these safeguards were recommended by FDA, OIE, and USDA scientists previously, and now are by many private scientists along with a major corporate consumer...That and the fact that both the countries we are importing from (Japan and Canada) have already established these same safeguards leads me to believe we need them if we are taking their beef and cattle...
An old Public Safety rule is that if their is a doubt or any question- always err on the side of public safety....
Tam said:Oldtimer said:~SH~ said:OT,
USDA is following the best available science which considers what precatuionary measures have been taken including the ruminent feed ban, SRM removal, increased surveilance testing, banning the slaughter or downer cows, and restricting imported live cattle from countries suspected of BSE.
~SH~
SH- Do you read the news?--The US is importing live cattle from a country (Canada) with BSE- and beef of all ages from a country with many cases (Japan) that finds new cases monthly, and has proposed opening the border to cattle and beef of all ages from Canada...Both Canada and Japan have found BSE positive cattle that were born after the feed ban....
This is what necessitates the further strengthening of what til now have been adequate safeguards...
Knowing how heavily influenced Federal government agencies can be by the Corporate interests leaves me with little faith in either the USDA or FDA- especially since these safeguards were recommended by FDA, OIE, and USDA scientists previously, and now are by many private scientists along with a major corporate consumer...That and the fact that both the countries we are importing from (Japan and Canada) have already established these same safeguards leads me to believe we need them if we are taking their beef and cattle...
An old Public Safety rule is that if their is a doubt or any question- always err on the side of public safety....
Oldtimer get off your high horse and stop the R-CALF crap. Canada found ONE COW born 6 months after the feed bans. It was investigated and found that she ate Pre feed ban feed that was not recalled from the system when the bans were put in place. The US didn't recall any feed either. Canada has done more than what was asked of them and in a faster time frame than the US could possibably manage to do it. The fact Canada found her should and does show most of the world that CANADA IS DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE OUR BEEF SAFE INCLUDING THE REQUIRED TESTING unlike the USA. SSS- Oldtimer that is what R-CALFers does best. Shoot off their mouths, shovel crap about the Canadian Beef and Skirt the truth about R-CALF lies.
Oldtimer said:Tam said:Oldtimer said:SH- Do you read the news?--The US is importing live cattle from a country (Canada) with BSE- and beef of all ages from a country with many cases (Japan) that finds new cases monthly, and has proposed opening the border to cattle and beef of all ages from Canada...Both Canada and Japan have found BSE positive cattle that were born after the feed ban....
This is what necessitates the further strengthening of what til now have been adequate safeguards...
Knowing how heavily influenced Federal government agencies can be by the Corporate interests leaves me with little faith in either the USDA or FDA- especially since these safeguards were recommended by FDA, OIE, and USDA scientists previously, and now are by many private scientists along with a major corporate consumer...That and the fact that both the countries we are importing from (Japan and Canada) have already established these same safeguards leads me to believe we need them if we are taking their beef and cattle...
An old Public Safety rule is that if their is a doubt or any question- always err on the side of public safety....
Oldtimer get off your high horse and stop the R-CALF crap. Canada found ONE COW born 6 months after the feed bans. It was investigated and found that she ate Pre feed ban feed that was not recalled from the system when the bans were put in place. The US didn't recall any feed either. Canada has done more than what was asked of them and in a faster time frame than the US could possibably manage to do it. The fact Canada found her should and does show most of the world that CANADA IS DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE OUR BEEF SAFE INCLUDING THE REQUIRED TESTING unlike the USA. SSS- Oldtimer that is what R-CALFers does best. Shoot off their mouths, shovel crap about the Canadian Beef and Skirt the truth about R-CALF lies.
Tam- You can call it a high horse or whatever you want- but the facts still exist...Canada has a higher ratio of BSE including a post feed ban born cow that came from a "cluster area"...How much more feed went to how many more cows in that area? How many other infected cows of all ages exist in that cluster area? And Japan has definitely had several post feed ban cattle with positive cases showing up as recent as last month.....
Canada and Japan thought the safeguards that are being asked for were necessary to protect their herds and their consumers- but now you expect the US cattleman and consumer to allow the same beef and the same cattle, without these safeguards, and smile about it :???: ...
These will be the same cattle and same beef that led the OIE and CFIA scientists to recommend these same safeguards, which Canada put in place...How will crossing the border change this :???:
All it takes is bringing in one infected cow that makes it into the food chain thru poultry litter, table scraps, or blood in the milk replacer and it could infect 100's.....
Under no circumstances should the United States accept any cattle, beef or beef products, from countries that do not maintain identical or more stringent safeguard measures that is presently required or presently proposed in the United States which measures have been enforced for at least as long as the United States.
Oldtimer said:1) You scream bloody murder and whine for the US to take your cattle because Canada has been lax to develop their slaughter and export industry--
2)and now when we ask for the same protections from these same cattle that the OIE and CFIA felt needed those protections we're condemned as EVIL...
~SH~ said:OT and Sandbag,
Either the precautionary measures the U.S. and Canada has in place assure the safety of our beef or it doesn't. You hypocritical isolationists cannot apply one set of standards to Canada and another set of standards to the U.S.
It's nothing more than political bullsh*t to stop Canadian imports. You fool nobody. And for what? Canadian beef is not going to be removed from the world market.
This dog won't hunt now and it didn't hunt at the injunction or the appeal.
It's just a complete waste of time and energy. Typical R-CULT!
~SH~
~SH~ said:OT and Sandbag,
Either the precautionary measures the U.S. and Canada has in place assure the safety of our beef or it doesn't. You hypocritical isolationists cannot apply one set of standards to Canada and another set of standards to the U.S.
It's nothing more than political bullsh*t to stop Canadian imports. You fool nobody. And for what? Canadian beef is not going to be removed from the world market.
This dog won't hunt now and it didn't hunt at the injunction or the appeal.
It's just a complete waste of time and energy. Typical R-CULT!
~SH~
OCM: "The USDA is the one trying to impose two separate standards. Canada does not import from countries with BSE. The US does!!!"
ocm said:~SH~ said:OT and Sandbag,
Either the precautionary measures the U.S. and Canada has in place assure the safety of our beef or it doesn't. You hypocritical isolationists cannot apply one set of standards to Canada and another set of standards to the U.S.
It's nothing more than political bullsh*t to stop Canadian imports. You fool nobody. And for what? Canadian beef is not going to be removed from the world market.
This dog won't hunt now and it didn't hunt at the injunction or the appeal.
It's just a complete waste of time and energy. Typical R-CULT!
~SH~
The USDA is the one trying to impose two separate standards. Canada does not import from countries with BSE. The US does!!!
Simple Tam--Before we weren't taking OTM cattle from countries with higher rates of BSE and post feedban cases of BSE (Japan and Canada)....There were 349 birthmates of that Canadian post feedban cow that may have been fed that contaminated feed...The playing field has changed..
