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R-Calf Gong Show

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Murgen

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OT-Actually they (Japan) has said they will treat Canada the same as the US, I'll try to find the link! So, as you're negotiating with the Japanese, you're also working for Canadian Beef. Thanks for the help!
 
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Murgen said:
OT-I would appreciate it if you just answer yes or no to these questions. A yes/no answer will be sufficient, you've probably heard that before. And I know you have respect for the basis that the US justice system/law was built. On truth and concise answers!

1) R-calf contends that Canadian animals are contaminated, ever since the feed ban in 1997? yes or no?

2) Have the number of Canadian animals in the US at any one time in the last 5 years, exceeded 1 million animals? Yes or No?

3) Are these animals not being culled at the same rate as Canadian older animals, yes or no?

4) Are they all being condemned? Yes or No?

Are the majority not being killed for human consumption, yes or no?

5) By your yes and no answers I will take that as you and R-calf are stating that the US beef supply is not safe and that we as consumers should never eat beef again!

I'm not a spokesman for R-CALF- You will have to e-mail them to get your answers!
 

Sandhusker

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I have a hard believing Japan views the US and Canada as a single North American herd. My reasoning is this; Do you recall what Japan's actions to us were following your first case in May 2003? If they saw the US and Canada as integrated, they would of closed their borders to us at the same time they closed to you. They did not. Instead, they demanded we show them we would be able to seperate your beef from ours for their markets. They did not close to the US until the Washington cow. Their actions show to me that they see our industries as closely related, but yet seperate.

They have maintained their zero tolerance policy towards BSE. The USDA was committed to the same until May 23, 2003. You can guess what changed the USDA's minds. :wink:
 

Murgen

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OT-I would appreciate it if you just answer yes or no to these questions. A yes/no answer will be sufficient, you've probably heard that before. And I know you have respect for the basis that the US justice system/law was built. On truth and concise answers!

1) In your opinion are Canadian animals contaminatedwith BSE , ever since the feed ban in 1997? yes or no?

2) Have the number of Canadian animals in the US at any one time in the last 5 years, exceeded 1 million animals? Yes or No?

3) Are these animals not being culled at the same rate as Canadian older animals, yes or no?

4) Are they all being condemned? Yes or No?

Are the majority not being killed for human consumption, yes or no?

5) By your yes and no answers I will take that as you are stating that the US beef supply is not safe and that we as consumers should never eat beef again!
 
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Murgen said:
OT-I would appreciate it if you just answer yes or no to these questions. A yes/no answer will be sufficient, you've probably heard that before. And I know you have respect for the basis that the US justice system/law was built. On truth and concise answers!

1) In your opinion are Canadian animals contaminatedwith BSE , ever since the feed ban in 1997? yes or no?

2) Have the number of Canadian animals in the US at any one time in the last 5 years, exceeded 1 million animals? Yes or No?

3) Are these animals not being culled at the same rate as Canadian older animals, yes or no?

4) Are they all being condemned? Yes or No?

Are the majority not being killed for human consumption, yes or no?

5) By your yes and no answers I will take that as you are stating that the US beef supply is not safe and that we as consumers should never eat beef again!

Murgen- like I've told the Judge on many occasions- this is not something that can be answered with yes and no answers- it requires explanation..

Canada by statistics and ratios has an extremely higher infection rate than the US- with cattle now showing up that were infected after the feedban... What is the extent of infection? For how long will exposed cows born after the feedban that are now just developing infection and showing symptoms keep appearing? No one knows because enough cows have not been tested and enough time to evaluate the situation has not been taken....Statistics show that with the number of positives found and the number of cattle Canada has that it is very possible that 10-15-20+ cases will still appear.....

As far as is Canadian beef safe?- you should read the BSE link that TH posted yesterday- the part concerning the infectivity of humans-- That it is unknown how much consumed infected meat it takes to infect a human- but that as the ratio of infected animals reaching the food system rises the rate of possibility of infection because the concentration of infected material rises- also the number of infected animals increase greatly the amount of persons exposed.... This is a question each individual has to answer for themselves... That is the reason consumers should be given the choice between buying a product of US origin or one from Canada....
 

Tam

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Oldtimer can you tell me how many infected cows, besides the one we KNOW about, have entered the US food chain? Canada has had a no downer enters the food chain rule for a while now but the US just put that in place in 2004. How many of those downers that entered the US system had BSE and were never tested? When the US was to be testing for BSE why did they have a contract for a 1000 hd of the 20000 hd testing quota with a small slaughter house that did not accept DOWNER animals as a policy. Why don't they test the ones that actually show symtoms instead of the ones that don't. The Washington cow being tested was not the fluke if the USDA had a contract with that plant. It was a fluke that the test came back positive, to bad the USDA didn't see that non downers could also be positive. Canada was told that if we tested 30000 4D's we should get a true picture but if we decided to test healthy animals we would have to test 100 times as many. to get the same picture. Is the US testing 100 times as many animals for every healthy cow they test at a plant that doesn't accept downers? And why is the USDA still gathering samples from slaughter plants as they are not to accept downers as of Jan 2004 and that was what the OIE recommended they test was downers. Shouldn't they be gathering from farms and ranches like Canada is?

As far as the ones that do get into the system because they are not showing signs of BSE, that is why the rule to remove the SRM's was implimented in both the US and Canada. But I have read where this ban may not be fully complied in the US yet. As the SRM are not , by the plant inspectors say, being removed from all OTM animals. Maybe this will be like the Feed ban rule and the 99% compliance rate that you boost about. While the record shows it took the FDA over 6 years to achieve that 99% compliant rate and really don't have anyway of knowing for sure as they don't re-inspect plants that were found in non-compliance to see if they really did clean up their act. So tell me Oldtimer who is playing Russian Roulette with they consumers health. :???:
 

Murgen

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OT- all the questions I asked are answerable with a yes or no, even the opinion one, so I ask again will you enlighten us with your years of experience and knowledge? We value your opinion.
 

Murgen

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reader- and Canada plans to continue to do that as far as we know! Who will be respected world side for their survelance? Canada I suspect. The announcement today of the US reducing testing will only hurt the US, I wouldn't be surprised if Japan rethinks it again!
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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I have never seen anything definitive from Japan saying they would take Canadian beef or that they thought of this as "North American"... Last I saw from USDA was that they were not including Canadian beef in their trade talks- that they were were having to convince the trading partners of the ability for segregation again, like they did after the 2003 cow......

I truly believe our chances to open up our export market would be much better if we were not taking Canadian beef and/or Canadian beef had to be labeled as "Product of Canada" and not passed off as a US product.....





OLDTIMER: I beg to differ from you, There have been 3 meetings in the past 4 months in Brandon Manitoba with a few Japanese officials. They are looking at setting up an official plant here in Manitoba to process cattle from this province and ship back to japan through the port of Vancouver. The japanese have a lot of ties with Michael McCain and Maple Leaf has a large pork processing facility in Brandon and they looking to add a Beef processing plant. We have welcome arms for them to put up a plant here and I think you will see an announcement in the near future. :cowboy:
 

Tam

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Tell me Sandhusker why is the US market still closed to Japan then If you can say that the Washington cow was imported. I thought that Japan is looking at restoring trade but only to animals under twenty months and they are not asking you to prove where they are from only the age. Looks to me as if they don't trust you older cattle any more that they trust ours right now. They are also asking Canada to age verify with birth date and we have a system we can do it with you don't so they have to agree to the tenderness test. That was the big stumbling block for you is how you can prove the age of the animals.
 

Sandhusker

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Tam said:
Tell me Sandhusker why is the US market still closed to Japan then If you can say that the Washington cow was imported. I thought that Japan is looking at restoring trade but only to animals under twenty months and they are not asking you to prove where they are from only the age. Looks to me as if they don't trust you older cattle any more that they trust ours right now. They are also asking Canada to age verify with birth date and we have a system we can do it with you don't so they have to agree to the tenderness test. That was the big stumbling block for you is how you can prove the age of the animals.

Tam,
Japan is closed to us because they have a zero tolerance policy towards BSE. They're not taking chance one. You're right about us stumbling over age verification. The USDA, in their efforts to appease the big packers by standing in the way of free enterprise and value-added efforts of smaller packers via BSE testing, obligated us to a system that we do not have the infrastructure to support and one that leaves the Japanese veto power over any of our suggestions. The result, as could be foreseen by Ray Charles, is that we're not moving any beef and will not be in the forseeable future.
 

Tam

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Sandhusker said:
Japan is closed to us because they have a zero tolerance policy towards BSE. They're not taking chance one. .


Thank you Sandhusker you just said that Japan is not willing to take a change on getting BSE from the US either. Why don't they trust your beef if your only case was imported as most US ranchers want to claim?
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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the japanese are looking at investing in the cattle industry here in Canada thats alot more than the American s can say!!! :devil2:
 
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It is too bad that we all can't get along. l ranch in South Dakota and have read all the posting the last several years. With the BSE and border issue affecting all of us we ALL seem to blame the other. Here in the US we have all-time high cattle prices. It seems to me there are many factors that have made this possible. The closing of the border has limited the supply of available cattle, the Atkins Diet has given us a shot in the arm, and our cattle continues to be at all-time low numbers. What or who is right l don't know. l do know that with inputs that we now incur, thank goodness cattle is has gone up too. There are so many factors affecting our industry here. We have a growing astronomical debt which must be dealt with. l can understand the government wanting to open markets to get the trade flow revenue. l understand the US ranchers not wanting to have the border open in fear that it will drive the our market down. l want to get the most of my product too. We have one of the only industies that the buyer comes and tells us what they give us. On the Canadian side l don't know how you have survived the closing. l know your love for this way of life is as great as ours here. l do commend you for your steadfastness. As far as RCalf l think they are just a bunch of ranchers like us that feel they were not being heard. Sometimes us lil guys just have to stand up for what we feel --- Right or Wrong --- but there comes a time you just feel its right to do try and do something. l know the disucussions here have gotten heated some, but l respect my fellow cattle men be that a Canadian or American. l don't post a message here very often, but l just had to speak my mind. l know l don't have the answer to our problems. l just hope they work out for all of us in the long run.
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Guest I hear you. I ranch in Canada but it pains me that we don't get along better here. Fellow ranchers are not the enemy . It doesn't matter which side of the border you live on our way of life is theartened more every day by many issue that will end ranching the way we know it today. :cowboy:
 

Sandhusker

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Tam said:
Sandhusker said:
Japan is closed to us because they have a zero tolerance policy towards BSE. They're not taking chance one. .


Why don't they trust your beef if your only case was imported as most US ranchers want to claim?

ZERO TOLERANCE, Tam. No second chances, no second guessing.
 

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