R-CALF has no shame in their BSE "fear mongering"

[Tam]

Tam, you have a bad habit of mixing policies of R-CALF, NCBA, and USDA together - and then "finding" inconsistancies. :wink: USDA is the one demanding Japan lower their standards. R-CALF is all for giving Japan what they want.

First of all, saying the Mexico will close to us if we stop the Canadian boxed beef trade is speculation on your part. I looked at Mexico's requirements on the USDA web site last night. I didn't see Canada mentioned.

NBCA says we have to treat Canada as we would like others to treat us? Sounds nice, but this isn't grade school, it's international trade. Instead of believing everything you want to believe, take a look at what is actually happening and see if there is any truth to that statement. How are we treating you? Write down our policy. Now compare that with how Japan, Taiwan, Egypt, Korea, etc.... are treating us. I rest my case.[/quote'

Isn't it the anti Canadian trade buddy Senators of R-CALFs that are threatening Japan with trade sanctions if they don't open the border, Sandhusker. At least the USDA is negoitating with them not just open up or else like the Senate wants to do.

Look at what you are showing Japan and the rest of these countries. You have been taking Canadian boxed beef from UTM cattle and consuming it at record levels but you will not take the same cattle and process them in the US slaughter plants. The Washington cow got through your firewalls and made it into your food chain so Is the rest of the world looking at you think well they take the meat so it must be safe and it was their firewalls that failed so is the reason they will not take the cattle is because they don't trust their system and firewalls to catch the next one and if they don't then WHY SHOULD WE? Think about that Sandhusker.

As far as the Mexican border, we have been told that is part of the agreement by the USDA, and others. But you want us to believe you a member of a group that won't even take the President of the OIE's word on the fact that R-CALF is misquoting them in their statements. Won't believe Japan consumers are putting force on the Japanese government to not lift the ban on the US because of R-CALF's lawsuit. And believes BSE will not be a issue if found in the US.

 

[Sandhusker]

Isn't it the anti Canadian trade buddy Senators of R-CALFs that are threatening Japan with trade sanctions if they don't open the border, Sandhusker. At least the USDA is negoitating with them not just open up or else like the Senate wants to do.

Tam, those "buddy Senators" have minds of their own. If R-CALF's requests were met, we would of been sending beef to Japan a year ago and the talk of sanctions would never of came up. The Senators are getting restless because the USDA's heavy handed strategy is (can you possibly imagine) getting resistance from the Japs.

Tam, "Look at what you are showing Japan and the rest of these countries. You have been taking Canadian boxed beef from UTM cattle and consuming it at record levels but you will not take the same cattle and process them in the US slaughter plants. The Washington cow got through your firewalls and made it into your food chain so Is the rest of the world looking at you think well they take the meat so it must be safe and it was their firewalls that failed so is the reason they will not take the cattle is because they don't trust their system and firewalls to catch the next one and if they don't then WHY SHOULD WE? Think about that Sandhusker."

Once again, Tam, I think that if you look at what is actually happening, you can throw that theory out the window. Look at Taiwan's terms - they will only accept beef if it slaughtered in the US. With that in mind, how can anyone gleen a vote of no confidence? The are DEMANDING their prodoct come from US PLANTS.

Tam, "As far as the Mexican border, we have been told that is part of the agreement by the USDA, and others."

I won't argue with you on that because I don't know for sure that you're wrong. I will say that I try to read all I can on this subject and I've never seen a direct quote from the Mexicans to that effect.

Tam, " ...Won't believe Japan consumers are putting force on the Japanese government to not lift the ban on the US because of R-CALF's lawsuit."

Why should one believe that? I've seen a quote directly from the Japanese government that says their demands are totally independent of what the US/Canada border situation is.

Tam,"... And believes BSE will not be a issue if found in the US."

Of course it will be an issue. That is what a large portion of the lawsuit is about. However, judging by US consumer's reaction to the Washington cow, one could imagine that an isolated positive might not be a disasterous occurance.

 

[Kato]

"Look at Taiwan's terms - they will only accept beef if it slaughtered in the US. With that in mind, how can anyone gleen a vote of no confidence? The are DEMANDING their prodoct come from US PLANTS."

for the moment.......

Winnipeg, MB, Apr 13, 2005 (Resource News International via COMTEX) -- Taiwan told Canadian agriculture officials that they would open their border to Canadian beef "soon," confirmed a Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada official.

Greg Giokas, Director of Trade Policy with Ag Canada was in Taiwan Monday as part of a group meeting with the country's minister of Agriculture and Health. At the time the Canadians were told that the reopening of the border to Canadian beef "can be expected very soon," said Giokas. However, no date was set, he added.

Giokas said the Taiwan Department of Health will now make the recommendation to the government.

While no date is set, "the reassuring thing is that they are committed to opening," said Giokas. He added that there do not appear to be any technical problems.

 

[Murgen]

one could imagine that an isolated positive might not be a disasterous occurance

Unless other countries base trade on lawsuits and injunctions and not science! But R-calf isn't worried about that are they? "BSE within any country borders makes all beef from said country unsafe" My crystal ball says, we will see if that's true!

 

[Sandhusker]

one could imagine that an isolated positive might not be a disasterous occurance

Unless other countries base trade on lawsuits and injunctions and not science! But R-calf isn't worried about that are they? "BSE within any country borders makes all beef from said country unsafe" My crystal ball says, we will see if that's true!

Murgen, I think if you look around you will see that science doesn't have a whole lot to do with countries trade policies worldwide. Look at the EU - how many countries are effected by their hormone-free stance? This notion that trade must be based on science is new and naieve.

"BSE within any country borders makes all beef from said country unsafe" That is not something R-CALF made up - it was USDA's own policy prior to May, 2003. It is still their policy for anybody except Canada. Judging by who Canada is excepting imports from, I'd say it is Canada's policy as well. USDA testified to congress that policy was needed to keep BSE out of here. R-CALF's problem, and mine as well, was that this policy was set up to keep BSE out of here and keep our consumers from being exposed to potentially infected beef - that policy changed when it became detrimental to business as usual for the big packers, and changing health rules for econimic gain doesn't cut it.

Did you put imported or local product in your bong, er, excuse me, dijardo? :wink: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Mike: "The thought of R-Calf "PROHIBITING" anything is simply laughable Scott."

Leo McDonnell claims to have helped to write the "M"COOL law. The law prohibits "M"ID. R-CULT took credit for it.

What don't you understand about that?


Sandhusker: "If R-CALF's requests were met, we would of been sending beef to Japan a year ago and the talk of sanctions would never of came up."

SPECULATION! There is nothing to back that claim.


Sandhusker: "The Senators are getting restless because the USDA's heavy handed strategy is (can you possibly imagine) getting resistance from the Japs."

As opposed to the "light handed" strategy of trade sanctions? LOL!


Sandhusker: "I've seen a quote directly from the Japanese government that says their demands are totally independent of what the US/Canada border situation is."

I have seen a direct quote from R-CULT stating that they never met with any official Japanese beef trade representative yet they claim to know what Japan's position would be?????

Typical!


Sandhusker: "Of course it will be an issue. That is what a large portion of the lawsuit is about."

So you disagree with Leo McDonnell. Leo said if BSE is discovered in the U.S. it will not be an issue because of the firewalls we have in place.



Sandhusker: "However, judging by US consumer's reaction to the Washington cow, one could imagine that an isolated positive might not be a disasterous occurance."

Yet if Canada has a case, their beef is "tainted".

The difference between NCBA, USDA and R-CULT on this issue is that NCBA and USDA will remain consistant where R-CULT will change their story to fit the situation.


~SH~

 

[Tommy]

Sandhusker: "I've seen a quote directly from the Japanese government that says their demands are totally independent of what the US/Canada border situation is."

SH...I have seen a direct quote from R-CULT stating that they never met with any official Japanese beef trade representative yet they claim to know what Japan's position would be?????

Typical!


What is R-CALF claiming the Japanese position to be Scott?


I have seen a quote from you Scott claiming Korea will not take USA beef unless we take live cattle from Canada. Yet you have never backed that statement up with facts.

 

[Mike]

SH: "Mike: "The thought of R-Calf "PROHIBITING" anything is simply laughable Scott."

Leo McDonnell claims to have helped to write the "M"COOL law. The law prohibits "M"ID. R-CULT took credit for it.

What don't you understand about that?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that the means to identify animals/processed meat should NOT have been dictated by a guvment bureaucracy. It should have been left to the processors and/or retailers to come up with a system to track the product. Should the cattle not meet the tracking arrangement, then the processor had the option of not buying the cattle.

I guarantee you that private enterprise would have worked out the best way to trace meat, cheaper and more efficiently than the Feds. Each packer would have been looking for the most painless method, something the guvment doesn't understand.

Now, what don't you understand about that? Or are you for bigger guvment?

 

[Sandhusker]

SH, "SH...I have seen a direct quote from R-CULT stating that they never met with any official Japanese beef trade representative yet they claim to know what Japan's position would be????? "

I've seen where the NCBA has stated what the Japanese are thinking - as a member you should be able to tell us on what date they met. Why not include the quote directly from the Koreans about not taking our beef until we take live Canadian cattle...... :lol: :lol:

SH, "Leo McDonnell claims to have helped to write the "M"COOL law. The law prohibits "M"ID. R-CULT took credit for it. What don't you understand about that? "

Tom Harkin wrote the last farm bill and there are many things he didn't want in it but were added or subtractracted in order to get it passed. That's how law-making generally works - lots of compromise. I learned that in government class when I was a junior in high school. You should of taken that class.

SH, "The difference between NCBA, USDA and R-CULT on this issue is that NCBA and USDA will remain consistant where R-CULT will change their story to fit the situation."

What is your definition of consistancy? USDA stumps "sound science" or "best available science" as an absolute for trade policies to follow, then signs on the the following agreements; Country A is 30 months and younger with 2 SRMs removed, Country B is 30 months and younger with 8 SRMs removed, Country C is 8 SRMs removed but 20 months and younger...... :roll: I guess they are consistant in your slanted view just because they are dealing with beef in all the deals?
:lol: :lol:

How about the consistancy of a certain orginization that claims to back private enterprise and value adding of beef but then doesn't feel a US business should be allowed to do exactly that to meet a foreign customer's demands because those demands are not based on "sound science" (after they have had no problem with CAB, organic, hormone free, Kosher, Halal, ect.... of which none are backed by sound science, either)!

 

[Anonymous]

T: "What is R-CALF claiming the Japanese position to be Scott?"

That would depend on which way the political winds were blowing the day you happened to ask them.

If on their usual tangent, they would claim Japan is not willing to take our beef because of the Canadian cattle in the mix with the sole motive of saying anything they think someone will believe to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle.


T: "I have seen a quote from you Scott claiming Korea will not take USA beef unless we take live cattle from Canada. Yet you have never backed that statement up with facts."

Korea made the statement, I don't care whether you believe it or not. If it supported your bias, you wouldn't question it.


Mike: "I understand that the means to identify animals/processed meat should NOT have been dictated by a guvment bureaucracy. It should have been left to the processors and/or retailers to come up with a system to track the product. Should the cattle not meet the tracking arrangement, then the processor had the option of not buying the cattle."

"M"COOL is a "please government, save us from ourselves" mandate that requires enforcement. "M"COOL without "M"ID to enforce it screams of R-CULT's ignorance on the matter.


Mike: " I guarantee you that private enterprise would have worked out the best way to trace meat, cheaper and more efficiently than the Feds. Each packer would have been looking for the most painless method, something the guvment doesn't understand."

If the consumers were asking for country of origin labeling, the free enterprise system could sure as hell provide that better than the gubmint.

BUT NO, WE HAVE TO FORCE THE BIG BAD PACKER INTO COMPLIANCE because we know more about marketing beef than those who actually market beef.


Sandhusker: "Why not include the quote directly from the Koreans about not taking our beef until we take live Canadian cattle."

Because it's more fun to watch you R-CULT clones think you actually have something on me.


Sandhusker: "Tom Harkin wrote the last farm bill and there are many things he didn't want in it but were added or subtractracted in order to get it passed. That's how law-making generally works - lots of compromise. I learned that in government class when I was a junior in high school. You should of taken that class."

Only complete idiots would write a country of origin labeling law for beef that exempts 75% of imported beef and prohibits the means to enforce it. Only a bigger idiot would defend such a law.


Sandhusker: "USDA stumps "sound science" or "best available science" as an absolute for trade policies to follow, then signs on the the following agreements; Country A is 30 months and younger with 2 SRMs removed, Country B is 30 months and younger with 8 SRMs removed, Country C is 8 SRMs removed but 20 months and younger...... I guess they are consistant in your slanted view just because they are dealing with beef in all the deals?"

USDA did not write the criteria for Country A, Country B, or Country C. Had they refused to abide by the seperate criterias, you'd be bitching that they were passing up a chance at these export markets. If I was USDA, I wouldn't pay much attention to chronic bitchers like you because you'd bitch no matter what they did. You're not even smart enough to understand the difference between another country's import criteria and our own.


Sandhusker: "How about the consistancy of a certain orginization that claims to back private enterprise and value adding of beef but then doesn't feel a US business should be allowed to do exactly that to meet a foreign customer's demands because those demands are not based on "sound science" (after they have had no problem with CAB, organic, hormone free, Kosher, Halal, ect.... of which none are backed by sound science, either)!"

Apples and oranges!

You're still beating that dead horse?

CAB is not false advertising
Organic is not false advertising
Hormone free is not false advertising
Kosher is a religious practice

BSE testing of cattle younger than 30 months of age is false advertising of food safety. Otherwise there would be no reason to test them. Creekstone's Fielding even admitted that 100% testing doesn't guarantee safety so why mislead? Oh, never mind, forgot who I was talking to.


~SH~

 

[mrj]

Sandhusker: "I've seen a quote directly from the Japanese government that says their demands are totally independent of what the US/Canada border situation is."

I have seen a direct quote from R-CULT stating that they never met with any official Japanese beef trade representative yet they claim to know what Japan's position would be?????

Typical!

Maybe this sheds some light: From the NCBA Forum on RFDTV, 4-21-'05, I will paraphrase because I may or may not have gotten his EXACT words, but did get the meaning. Replying to this question by a caller from CA. Q. Has Japan ever stipulated Canadian border could open before they (Japan) would trade with us? A. Jamie Willrett, NCBA Trade Committee, said "their people (Japan's Trade delegates) have stated such in conversations around this issue--they look at this as an integrated North American market".

MRJ

 

[Anonymous]

Sandhusker: Replying to this question by a caller from CA. Q. Has Japan ever stipulated Canadian border could open before they (Japan) would trade with us? A. Jamie Willrett, NCBA Trade Committee, said "their people (Japan's Trade delegates) have stated such in conversations around this issue--they look at this as an integrated North American market".

MRJ

And that means it's the gospel truth?? :roll: --Just another packer bought stooge :wink: Show us where a Japanese trade official or Prime Minister said this.......

 

[Tommy]

Oldtimer...And that means it's the gospel truth?? --Just another packer bought stooge Show us where a Japanese trade official or Prime Minister said this....

If NCBA said so, to her it is the gospel truth. Also Scott must have heard NCBA say Korea will not take USA beef unless we take Canadian live cattle. He cannot come up with the statement to post on here.

 

[Anonymous]

OT: (questioning anything that doesn't support his R-CULT bias): "Show us where a Japanese trade official or Prime Minister said this......."


Questions to Yoshi Tsuchiya (Japanese export consultant):

Q: "R-Calf Seems To Be Taking Blame Recently. But, Is That Fair? We Also Heard That Hosoda Is Fed Up With U.S. Pressure. It Appears That Japan Wants To Be On Their Timeline And Not Be Bothered?"

A: "The R-Calf resistance to opening the Canadian border has simply complicated the issue with Japan -- it isn't helping. No one welcomes excess pressure."


NEXT!



~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

Japanese undersecetary Ishihara, " We have been asking both the US and Canada to take equivalent measures to ours then we will decide if Japan will resume beef imports from Canada or not REGARDLESS if whether the issue between the US and Canada is resolved or not.

Yep, it sure appears the Japanese are concerned about the US/Canada border..... :roll:

NEXT

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker: "How about the consistancy of a certain orginization that claims to back private enterprise and value adding of beef but then doesn't feel a US business should be allowed to do exactly that to meet a foreign customer's demands because those demands are not based on "sound science" (after they have had no problem with CAB, organic, hormone free, Kosher, Halal, ect.... of which none are backed by sound science, either)!"

SH, "Apples and oranges! You're still beating that dead horse?

CAB is not false advertising
Organic is not false advertising
Hormone free is not false advertising
Kosher is a religious practice"

Yep, you're right, SH. Too bad that wan't the topic. The topic was "sound science."

Is CAB based on sound science? Yes or No.
Is Organic based on sound science? Yes or no.
Is Hormone free based on sound science? Yes or no.
Is Kosher based on sound science? Yes or no.

 

[Mike]

"CAB is not false advertising"

I believe it is false advertising. CAB beef is NOT all Angus.

 

[mrj]

Sandhusker: Replying to this question by a caller from CA. Q. Has Japan ever stipulated Canadian border could open before they (Japan) would trade with us? A. Jamie Willrett, NCBA Trade Committee, said "their people (Japan's Trade delegates) have stated such in conversations around this issue--they look at this as an integrated North American market".

MRJ

And that means it's the gospel truth?? :roll: --Just another packer bought stooge :wink: Show us where a Japanese trade official or Prime Minister said this.......

OT, does it really bite you that badly that NCBA has people involved in talking to Japanese trade representatives while your outfit is "helping the cattleman" by soliciting contributions for lawyers (according to Johnny Smiths' comments on radio)????

Some of those Japanese trade rep's may say things off the record that they do not want attributed to them personally, is my GUESS on the subject.

I have no doubt that Jamie Willrett is an honest person based on everything I have heard him say, and you have no reason to call him names! You tell a dirty lie when you say he is a packer bought stooge, unless you can show absolute proof that what you say is true.

MRJ

 

[Anonymous]

You tell a dirty lie when you say he is a packer bought stooge, unless you can show absolute proof that what you say is true.

MRJ

In my opion the entire NCBA has been packer bought....so sneaking around behind closed doors talking to Japanese wouldn't surprise me a bit.....But I would take the word of a Japanese official before an NCBA packer pawn..........

 

[Silver]

You tell a dirty lie when you say he is a packer bought stooge, unless you can show absolute proof that what you say is true.

MRJ

In my opion the entire NCBA has been packer bought....so sneaking around behind closed doors talking to Japanese wouldn't surprise me a bit.....But I would take the word of a Japanese official before an NCBA packer pawn..........

Your opinion counts for less and less around here as you continue to lower the quality of discourse here by continually attempting to spread fear through supposition and ignorance.