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R-CALF on GIPSA study

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Sandhusker

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Serious Flaws in GIPSA's Latest

Livestock and Meat Marketing Study



Billings, Mont. – The Grain Inspection Packers Stockyards Administration (GIPSA) recently issued its latest Livestock and Meat Marketing Study, which is seriously flawed. The study continues a tradition of stating as fact the simple declarations of packers or large formula feeders, and it concludes that Alternative Marketing Agreements (AMAs), among other benefits, provide for a reliable and consistent supply of quality cattle.



This same declaration was made in the March 2002 report titled "Potential Impacts of the Proposed Ban on Packer Ownership and Feeding of Livestock," conducted by the Sparks Companies, which also was unsupported by any real data analyses.



Before any data was analyzed, the contractors for the current study, upon releasing an interim report in August 2005, declared that AMAs were used "to assure high and consistent quality."



"In contrast to these statements, publicly available data indicate that the exact opposite situation is true – that the supply of AMA cattle is more variable than the cash market," said Auburn University's Robert Taylor, Alfa Eminent Scholar and Professor, Agricultural Economics.



For example, according to Taylor:

· Variability of U.S. beef production has not changed appreciably in many decades, even though captive supply has increased to near half of total supply;

· Captive supply was 2.2 times more variable than supply from the cash market based on GIPSA monthly data for the 15 largest packers, 1988-98;

· Captive supply was 1.5 times more variable than supply from the cash market based on AMS "additional movement" weekly data, 1994-1998;

· Tyson/IBP's captive supply was 1.5 times more variable than their acquisitions from the cash market based on weekly data made public in Pickett v. Tyson/IBP, 1994-2002;

· Captive supply was 3.5 times more variable than supply from the cash market based on GIPSA monthly data for the four largest packers, 1990-2002;

· Captive supply was 2.4 times more variable than supply from the cash market based on GIPSA "revised" monthly data for the four largest packers, 1999-2002;

· Captive supply was 1.4 times more variable than supply from the cash market based on MPR weekly data, April 2004 through January 2007.



"In spite of these examples that point to AMA supply variability, GIPSA's Livestock and Meat Marketing Study did not offer a single data set, or a single analysis, that supported the industry-wide declaration that AMAs provide a consistent supply of cattle," pointed out R-CALF USA Vice President/Region II Director Randy Stevenson. "Even though the study contractors collected millions of bits of data, they did not use them to prove – or disprove – the variability of captive supply. They relied, instead, on the opinions of market participants. That seems to suggest that the study contractors worked toward a predetermined conclusion concerning a reliable supply of cattle.



"There is also within the study absolutely no consideration given to other possible methods of attaining a reliable supply," he continued. "Either the cash market or other contracting methods might accomplish that better than AMAs, but the study did not offer any other possibilities.



"Congress ordered GIPSA to conduct the study, and Congress needs to hold them accountable for these serious flaws," Stevenson said. "Without supporting data, the conclusion that AMAs are used to provide a reliable and consistent supply of cattle should be soundly rejected.



"We fully recognize GIPSA Administrator James Link was not in charge during GIPSA's lengthy history of turmoil, and we thank him for speaking to our members during the recent R-CALF convention and for his acknowledgement of the errors made in the past and his vow to correct those situations," Stevenson emphasized. "But as he considers appropriate actions for improving the agency, he should reject this study as a basis for those decisions. Instead, he should continue to rely on the recommendations made by the agency's Office of Inspector General (OIG) more than a year ago. R-CALF looks forward to working with Link and with Congress to see to it that honesty and competition is returned to the marketplace."



R-CALF USA membership policies support a ban on packer ownership of cattle, with the exception of plants that slaughter less than 100 head per day. Membership policy also defines captive supplies to include any livestock owned by, committed to, or otherwise under the control of, the packer before seven days of slaughter, including non-negotiated transactions and imported cattle and beef.
 
Billings, Mont. – The Grain Inspection Packers Stockyards Administration (GIPSA) recently issued its latest Livestock and Meat Marketing Study, which is seriously flawed.

It didn't tell packer blamers what they want to believe again.


"There is also within the study absolutely no consideration given to other possible methods of attaining a reliable supply," he continued. "Either the cash market or other contracting methods might accomplish that better than AMAs, but the study did not offer any other possibilities.

Translation: Feeders don't know what they are doing. They need us packer blamers to save them from their marketing arrangements.


Blah, blah, blah! More of the same from the blaming segment of our industry. They go on for hours and hours to discredit what they don't want to believe but they have nothing to support what they want to believe.

Packer blamers.....sheesh!


~SH~
 
SH, "Translation: Feeders don't know what they are doing. They need us packer blamers to save them from their marketing arrangements."

Translation, you have poor reading skills; It is PACKERS who claim they need AMAs for a reliable supply, not feeders.

Why do you have such a problem with US laws "saving from themselves" US citizens, but you embrace US laws saving the Japanese from themselves.
 
If you knew anything about this industry you would know that the feeders went to the packers asking them to forward contract their cattle for them WHILE THE PACKER STOOD THE BASIS RISK!

But you don't......


~SH~
 
"to assure high and consistent quality."

That's what the study concludes is the reason for AMAs.
Support --- interviews.

THEY COLLECTED TONS OF DATA. WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THE DATA TO PROVE THIS STATEMENT

Especially when there are 7 sets of data that show the opposite.

That's just DUMB.
 
~SH~ said:
If you knew anything about this industry you would know that the feeders went to the packers asking them to forward contract their cattle for them WHILE THE PACKER STOOD THE BASIS RISK!

But you don't......


~SH~

There is no basis risk where there is no tie to the futures. AMAs are not tied to the futures usually. THERE IS NO BASIS RISK.

And THE feeder who started this was?

Paul Engler, who was later a VP of IBP.

And he had preferential contracts. 30% choice and $20 over the market average. He had a personal advantage in the contract not given to others. And just because he started it doesn't make it harmless to the market. Its a case of one guy operating in the market in a way that ends up hurting others.
Just because one feeders does it doesn't make it good if everybody does it.
See the illustration on this thread that deals with "voluntary" contracts. (near the end)
http://ranchers.net/forum/about17262.html
 
ocm: "WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THE DATA TO PROVE THIS STATEMENT

Especially when there are 7 sets of data that show the opposite."


The term "HIGHER QUALITY" does not just sit within the realm of PERCENTATGE CHOICE. At the time of this data, the choice select spread was narrow making more choice cattle far less significant.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT WAS THE YIELD GRADE BREAKDOWN OF THOSE CATTLE??????

Yield is a damn sight more important then quality grade WITHIN A NARROW CHOICE SELECT SPREAD.

You deceivers only fool yourselves.


ocm: "There is no basis risk where there is no tie to the futures. AMAs are not tied to the futures usually. THERE IS NO BASIS RISK."

FUTURES FORWARD CONTRACTS ARE TIED TO THE FUTURES MARKET AND THERE DAMN SURE IS A BASIS RISK!

Not every AMA is a formula arrangement.

You guys defined captive supply as "THOSE CATTLE OWNED OR OTHERWISE CONTROLLED BY PACKERS FOR MORE THAN 14 DAYS PRIOR TO SLAUGHTER" in the Johnson Communist packer ban and now you want to deceptively include formula arrangements that didn't fit the previous definition. Liars always find themselves changing their stories.


ocm: " And just because he started it doesn't make it harmless to the market. Its a case of one guy operating in the market in a way that ends up hurting others.
Just because one feeders does it doesn't make it good if everybody does it."

What a rally cry for SOCIALIZED CATTLE MARKETING.

Well, sniffle sniffle, he got more than me....WAAAAAAAHHHH!

Damn liberals!

"PLEASE GOVAHMENT, SAVE US FROM OURSELVES"


RM: "The quality of an animal doesn't change one bid because of how it is marketed. PERIOD"

The quality of an animal determines the price in a formula arrangement when the cash market sells on the average. PERIOD!


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
ocm: "WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THE DATA TO PROVE THIS STATEMENT

Especially when there are 7 sets of data that show the opposite."


The term "HIGHER QUALITY" does not just sit within the realm of PERCENTATGE CHOICE. At the time of this data, the choice select spread was narrow making more choice cattle far less significant.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT WAS THE YIELD GRADE BREAKDOWN OF THOSE CATTLE??????

Yield is a damn sight more important then quality grade WITHIN A NARROW CHOICE SELECT SPREAD.

You deceivers only fool yourselves.


ocm: "There is no basis risk where there is no tie to the futures. AMAs are not tied to the futures usually. THERE IS NO BASIS RISK."

FUTURES FORWARD CONTRACTS ARE TIED TO THE FUTURES MARKET AND THERE DAMN SURE IS A BASIS RISK!

Not every AMA is a formula arrangement.

You guys defined captive supply as "THOSE CATTLE OWNED OR OTHERWISE CONTROLLED BY PACKERS FOR MORE THAN 14 DAYS PRIOR TO SLAUGHTER" in the Johnson Communist packer ban and now you want to deceptively include formula arrangements that didn't fit the previous definition. Liars always find themselves changing their stories.


ocm: " And just because he started it doesn't make it harmless to the market. Its a case of one guy operating in the market in a way that ends up hurting others.
Just because one feeders does it doesn't make it good if everybody does it."

What a rally cry for SOCIALIZED CATTLE MARKETING.

Well, sniffle sniffle, he got more than me....WAAAAAAAHHHH!

Damn liberals!

"PLEASE GOVAHMENT, SAVE US FROM OURSELVES"


RM: "The quality of an animal doesn't change one bid because of how it is marketed. PERIOD"

The quality of an animal determines the price in a formula arrangement when the cash market sells on the average. PERIOD!


~SH~

Let me make it simple. We're talking about the GIPSA study and you keep diverting. STICK TO THE STUDY

The GIPSA study did not use data to back up its conclusions. They gathered the data, then used OPINIONS of people they interviewed for their conclusions.

Show me any DATA used in the study to show that AMAs result in a consistent reliable supply of quality cattle (by ANY definition)

The study presented NO DATA, NO DATA ANALYSIS to point to it. WHY NOT????!!! They spent millions gathering data then didn't use it? They came to conclusions without using DATA???

POOR, REALLY POOR

If you think otherwise, reference the place in the study were it shows they used DATA to come to that conclusion. By doing so you will win the argument. So its simple, NO DATA, YOU LOSE.
 
What's wrong ocm?

Can't refute anything I have stated!

par for the course!


Let me make this simple for you ocm!

Take a quote from the study. Provide the data that proves them wrong? NO DATA TO PROVE THEM WRONG, NO SOLID GROUND FOR A PACKER BLAMER TO STAND ON!

You got nothing again, you never do!



~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
What's wrong ocm?

Can't refute anything I have stated!

par for the course!


Let me make this simple for you ocm!

Take a quote from the study. Provide the data that proves them wrong? NO DATA TO PROVE THEM WRONG, NO SOLID GROUND FOR A PACKER BLAMER TO STAND ON!

You got nothing again, you never do!



~SH~

Where is GIPSA's data to prove that AMAs provide a reliable and consistent supply of quality cattle.

Oh, couldn't find it!

That's because there isn't any. IT IS A FALSE CLAIM. GIPSA is lying (by your own standards)

Watch the dance. He won't answer. He can't answer. Because the truth will contradict his beliefs.

DODGE, DANCE DIVERT.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE GIPSA STUDY. DID YOU ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THE GIPSA STUDY OR DID YOU DIVERT. DID I MISS A GIPSA STUDY QUESTION?
 
ocm,

Take a quote from the study and provide the data that proves that quote false.

How difficult can that be?

Do you really wonder why you blamers can't win a court case?

You can't just state a position, YOU HAVE TO BACK IT WITH SUPPORTING EVIDENCE!

You just can't do it can you?


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
ocm,

Take a quote from the study and provide the data that proves that quote false.

How difficult can that be?

Do you really wonder why you blamers can't win a court case?

You can't just state a position, YOU HAVE TO BACK IT WITH SUPPORTING EVIDENCE!

You just can't do it can you?


~SH~

There is no data IN THE REPORT that SUPPORTS the quote. There is a list of SEVEN sources of data in the R-CALF release that prove it FALSE. The GIPSA study uses NO DATA at all to make its claim.

I am saying there is NO DATA in the GIPSA study to support the claim. The data to support the claim DOES NOT EXIST.
There are SEVEN sources quoted to in R-CALFs press release that contradict the claim. SEVEN. Prove any one of them false if you can.
Therefore the claim by GIPSA that AMAs provide for a reliable consistent supply of quality cattle is FALSE.

This supposed to be an economic study and it makes a claim it cannot support with data. That tells you how bad it really is. It wouldn't get a passing grade in Economics 101.


~SH~ said:
You can't just state a position, YOU HAVE TO BACK IT WITH SUPPORTING EVIDENCE!

Tell that to GIPSA. That's precisely what they are doing when they say that AMAs provide for a reliable consistent supply of quality cattle. A statement with no evidence.
 
ocm,

Stop dancing!

Take a statement from the study and post the R-CALF data that disproves it.

Why can't you do that?

I know why you can't do that, because you don't have supporting facts, you have cheap talk!


~SH~
 
ocm said:
~SH~ said:
ocm,

Take a quote from the study and provide the data that proves that quote false.

How difficult can that be?

Do you really wonder why you blamers can't win a court case?

You can't just state a position, YOU HAVE TO BACK IT WITH SUPPORTING EVIDENCE!

You just can't do it can you?


~SH~

There is no data IN THE REPORT that SUPPORTS the quote. There is a list of SEVEN sources of data in the R-CALF release that prove it FALSE. The GIPSA study uses NO DATA at all to make its claim.

I am saying there is NO DATA in the GIPSA study to support the claim. The data to support the claim DOES NOT EXIST.
There are SEVEN sources quoted to in R-CALFs press release that contradict the claim. SEVEN. Prove any one of them false if you can.
Therefore the claim by GIPSA that AMAs provide for a reliable consistent supply of quality cattle is FALSE.

This supposed to be an economic study and it makes a claim it cannot support with data. That tells you how bad it really is. It wouldn't get a passing grade in Economics 101.


~SH~ said:
You can't just state a position, YOU HAVE TO BACK IT WITH SUPPORTING EVIDENCE!

Tell that to GIPSA. That's precisely what they are doing when they say that AMAs provide for a reliable consistent supply of quality cattle. A statement with no evidence.

I would have to disagree with you slightly here, OCM. While past data may not have shown that AMAs provided for a consistent supply of quality cattle, that is their goal. The only thing that cattlemen have to hold over the heads of packers is supply. AMAs can make an end run around this free market price determination between buyers and sellers. The more AMAs influence this relationship, the more market power can be exerted.

It may be totally accurate that AMAs have not in the past provided the consistent supply, and thus ending the argument from the packers that they need this tool. If AMAs provided all the supply, the resultant "private" information coordinated by the packers can directly influence the overall value received by producers in the market to the producer's detriment. I believe this was the case with Pickett and the use of AMAs (part of the definition of captive supply) based on a thinned cash price.

The biggest problem with AMAs is therefore ridding the free market of price determination based on sellers being able to hold supply back, and packers who want that supply. It is like going to an auction for calves where the buyers go into the pens, buy most of the supply they want from negotiated sales there, and then not bidding on the cattle in the ring, therefore lowering the price of cash cattle. The fraud in Pickett was that the AMAs (captive supply) was based on this thinned cash price.

Most auction houses understand this problem and prohibit these type of sales. Auctions have an interest in having those cattle go into the ring for all of the bidders to bid on those cattle (so auction companies can get their cut) and in so bypasses the captive supply problem. Occasionally some trailer sales do happen, but usually the amount is not enough to affect the cash price.
 

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