RobertMac

[Big Muddy rancher]

I didn't know if you maybe missed this.

RobertMac wrote:
When I can go out to my herd and look at my calves, my top end calves look fine...my bottom end calves look like they need something...mineral, nutrition, better mama. I have to cull about 20 cows to get my herd back to the number of cows I want to run on my place. Those 20 cows will take out all the cows of my poor doing calves and some better doing cows.
Didn't I just solve my mineral/nutrition/performance problem?

BMR wrote:
If your land is lacking in certain nutrients wouldn't the cattle perform to what they are receiving. Eventually cattle will be lacking in whatever the feed is lacking. Cattle may adapt to their environment but will they perform as well as they should or could?

Or is the question...are we expecting more than our land is capable of giving?

Question for PC and Liveoak...how much can you change your soil above what your parent soil can support and can you afford to keep doing it? How much does the chemical content of the same forage on different soils change? Or does the forage species change with different soil types? How much does the chemical content of different species differ?

NR, my plan was to take away supplements slowly until I hit a production wall...that "wreck" as in a larger than normal percent of my cows coming up open. I'm still waiting!

Is the problem man's vanity in that we think we are smarter than Nature?



I understand where your coming from but are we to be satisfied with a level of production that be increased with a minimal amount of inputs?
We run on native range so haven't manipulated the plant structure like some that grazed seeded crops.
Do yo seed forages or are you using the forage native to your area?

 

[RobertMac]

I understand where your coming from but are we to be satisfied with a level of production that be increased with a minimal amount of inputs?

I believe that using minerals has the best ROI of any practice cattlemen use in terms of health, reproduction, and production...I think we all agree on that.

You must have missed this.


We run on native range so haven't manipulated the plant structure like some that grazed seeded crops.
Do yo seed forages or are you using the forage native to your area?
Yes, I seed forages. The "forage" native to my area is deciduous hardwood and pine forest.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

But you also said this"I quit feeding loose mineral...but then I have never fed blocks.
For me, it's a matter of adapting the cattle to the environment instead of adapting the environment to the cattle. "

So by seeding forages are you not adapting the environment to the cattle more so then someone grazing native range and supplementing minerals?

 

[RobertMac]

But you also said this"I quit feeding loose mineral...but then I have never fed blocks.
For me, it's a matter of adapting the cattle to the environment instead of adapting the environment to the cattle. "

So by seeding forages are you not adapting the environment to the cattle more so then someone grazing native range and supplementing minerals?

There you have it, BMR...that should discredit everything I've ever posted.

 

[per]

It is all semantics BMR. Use what you have and adapt to it or adapt what we have to our favored use. Those of us blessed with native range that forever has been adapted for use by bovines should continue to use it in that manner. The rest take what is there and try to make something out of it. My farm was carved out of short grass prairie many years ago. I wish it still was but deal with what it is now. So when we seed forages we try to bring a different salad to the salad bar to compliment the native and push the limits of the bovines. All the while trying to turn a profit. I think that is most of these folks' bottom line... A healthy soil should grow a healthy forage and we should be able to turn that into a healthy profit.

So the bottom line is take only what is sustainable and strive for what is attainable.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

It is all semantics BMR. Use what you have and adapt to it or adapt what we have to our favored use. Those of us blessed with native range that forever has been adapted for use by bovines should continue to use it in that manner. The rest take what is there and try to make something out of it. My farm was carved out of short grass prairie many years ago. I wish it still was but deal with what it is now. So when we seed forages we try to bring a different salad to the salad bar to compliment the native and push the limits of the bovines. All the while trying to turn a profit. I think that is most of these folks' bottom line... A healthy soil should grow a healthy forage and we should be able to turn that into a healthy profit.

So the bottom line is take only what is sustainable and strive for what is attainable.

I agree we have to work with what we got. I have no problem with people seeding forages if that is what works for them or feeding mineral or protein licks if that's what they feel they have to do. I just pointed out that we do change the environment for our cattle and that maybe some cattle haven't adapted to their environment as much as some people believe.

 

[Soapweed]

When it takes 25 acres to run one cow/calf unit for a year, it is probably easier (and more efficient) hauling some mineral to the cattle rather than trying to get the land to meet high expectations. :?

 

[Turkey Track Bar]

When it takes 25 acres to run one cow/calf unit for a year, it is probably easier (and more efficient) hauling some mineral to the cattle rather than trying to get the land to meet high expectations. :?

Boy, ain't that the truth!

Good post, Soap.

Have a great day in the Sandhills...

Cheers---

TTB :wink:

 

[RobertMac]

When it takes 25 acres to run one cow/calf unit for a year, it is probably easier (and more efficient) hauling some mineral to the cattle rather than trying to get the land to meet high expectations. :?

Soapweed, never advocated that. :? :? :?

 

[Soapweed]

When it takes 25 acres to run one cow/calf unit for a year, it is probably easier (and more efficient) hauling some mineral to the cattle rather than trying to get the land to meet high expectations. :?

Soapweed, never advocated that. :? :? :?

We cull pretty rigorously and try to have a herd that kind of takes care of themselves. With our harsh winters, though, and conditions unique to our area, we do try to give them a little nutritional "help" which I realize some folks frown upon.

Several years ago, one of my neighbors hired a nutrionist to assist in better understanding the cowherd's requirements. The bill came to over three thousand dollars. I jokingly told my neighbor that I'd about as soon spend that money on nutrition rather than on the services of a nutrionist. Come to think of it, I wasn't really joking. :roll: :wink: