sale results SAV

[Hay Feeder]

Hopefully the buyers at SAV understand that they are going to feed and manage the calves they get exactly as SAV does to get part of the genetic shot from either the sire or dam s they purchased

I have bought just three for SAV in the past 10 years
The two females only lasted two years until they both died
. The bull was super and became a great bull ended up lasting 10 years and sired progeny in 24 herds

 

[Big Swede]

It takes a willing seller and a willing buyer to make a market sale and always will. There is a market for all types of animals but the size of the market is quite different. I guess we all look and see which market is the best for us to sell in. We mostly passed up the longhorn and the grass finished market ,but there are a few that make a very good living at it. I guess what I am saying is I doubt if many people want someone else to tell them the best way to spend there money :cowboy: When the mkt. drys up for those growthy fat bulls, they will quit raising them or sell them on the rail.

I couldn't agree more mwj , by the way are you ready for spring? Sounds like you guys have had a long winter.

 

[mwj]

It takes a willing seller and a willing buyer to make a market sale and always will. There is a market for all types of animals but the size of the market is quite different. I guess we all look and see which market is the best for us to sell in. We mostly passed up the longhorn and the grass finished market ,but there are a few that make a very good living at it. I guess what I am saying is I doubt if many people want someone else to tell them the best way to spend there money :cowboy: When the mkt. drys up for those growthy fat bulls, they will quit raising them or sell them on the rail.

I couldn't agree more mwj , by the way are you ready for spring? Sounds like you guys have had a long winter.

We are getting some of your warm weather. Have not had a below zero night in about 4 nights . The 20 or so inches of snow and ice is melting. We have a foot of frost in the ground and they are calling for a high of fifty tomorrow with over an inch of rain. That could have some folks treading water. Maybe the long bad stretches are over till next year.

 

[leanin' H]

We have a bull test here in Utah called UBIA (Utah bull improvement association). They put bulls on test for gain and feed the heck out of them. They do that in order to show what the calves of each bull have the genetic potential to do in a feedlot. But bulls that are pushed hard have a horrible track record in our area. They simply will not stand up to traveling the rough country chasing grass and water in hot, dry conditions. While a bull that gains 4 pounds a day will pass some of that potential on to his offspring, he won't pass any of it on if he is lame, laying under a juniper tree feeling poorly and not breeding cows when i need him to be breeding cows. All the genetic potential in the world is kinda worthless if it isnt passed on. :wink: I want a bull in decent flesh that will work in my area so that is what we buy. SAV has a great customer base who keeps paying high dollar for their bulls and they must work well for them. I tip my hat to them for building a successful operation. It would be fun to try their bulls out here, but not at those prices. I buy as good as bull as my budget will allow, which may be a crossbred jersey this year! :lol: :lol:

 

[Big Swede]

To get maximum heterosis you better go purebred. :lol: You never fail to make me laugh H.

 

[leanin' H]

To get maximum heterosis you better go purebred. :lol: You never fail to make me laugh H.

I cant afford a purebred! :shock: Will you float me a loan? :wink:

 

[mwj]

Do you think it would work if the purebred producers would split some groups of same sire bulls and feed part of them for a lower ADG and see how they sell? Maybe that would be a good thing for both sides. It would be a quick test to see if people want the genetics or the big shiny bulls. :cowboy: Do you guys that don;t want fat bulls think this would work? Would you buy the bulls to see if the genetics would work? Do you guys ever think of buying embryos and raising them yourself just like your heifers are developed?

 

[mwj]

To get maximum heterosis you better go purebred. :lol: You never fail to make me laugh H.

I cant afford a purebred! :shock: Will you float me a loan? :wink:

I will go to the sale barn and buy you a purebred Jersey bull calf if you will pay the freight! Your kids could raise the little devil up to breeding size in no time. He will not need a BSE because he will settle every cow within 40 miles of your place the very first time you let him out of the barn. 8) Just think how happy your neighbors will be when they find out they can get shut of there bulls. They will all want to buy your lunch and a cold Pepsi for later.

 

[leanin' H]

I am not opposed to anything that will help the profit margin. My opinion is based off of experience in my part of the world. I have watched neighbors have wrecks chasing only carcass data. And i am sure some "finished fat" bulls may work well. I do my homework on genetics and then buy bulls that are raised the way i like them raised. But that pattern has only worked for 125 years on our place so we may not know what we are doing. :lol: :wink: You asked lots of questions mwj, so here's one back to ya. How many awesome calves will a broken down bull with too much fat in his equipment and bad feet and legs from being pushed too hard give ya come fall?

It's a balancing act for sure. To get the data on genetic potential you gotta have calves in a yard being fed. Which requires a bull to breed cows. Which my experience says he cant do if he has melted like an ice cube in july. Again, if it works for you, buy em' that way. We all do the same things different but that is just ranching.

 

[leanin' H]

And i am not intending to be snippy. I just think running cows on 1000 acres in the midwest is a completely different situation than running cows on 30000 in an area that gets 13 inches of moisture total in a year. SAV sells bulls all over the country to operations who value their genetics and the way they market their product. I applaud them. The sale average says it works! That same sale average prices me out of even their bottom dwelling bulls. But we just sold 850 weight calves for $1340 a head so apparently our way kinda works as well. :wink: Do what works for you and we will too. That is the joy of raising cattle in a free market. Or as the saying goes...."To each thier own">

 

[Denny]

Do you think it would work if the purebred producers would split some groups of same sire bulls and feed part of them for a lower ADG and see how they sell? Maybe that would be a good thing for both sides. It would be a quick test to see if people want the genetics or the big shiny bulls. :cowboy: Do you guys that don;t want fat bulls think this would work? Would you buy the bulls to see if the genetics would work? Do you guys ever think of buying embryos and raising them yourself just like your heifers are developed?

HELL NO they won't buy them I've tried that the last 6 sales or so and have about gone broke doing so. Bulls work great for the people who buy them but they get them bought very reasonable and about 30% don't sell. two years ago we sold every bull last year 1/2 sold. This year I cut back on bulls and put them on a better feeding program to get them pfat.

 

[mwj]

I am not opposed to anything that will help the profit margin. My opinion is based off of experience in my part of the world. I have watched neighbors have wrecks chasing only carcass data. And i am sure some "finished fat" bulls may work well. I do my homework on genetics and then buy bulls that are raised the way i like them raised. But that pattern has only worked for 125 years on our place so we may not know what we are doing. :lol: :wink: You asked lots of questions mwj, so here's one back to ya. How many awesome calves will a broken down bull with too much fat in his equipment and bad feet and legs from being pushed too hard give ya come fall?

It's a balancing act for sure. To get the data on genetic potential you gotta have calves in a yard being fed. Which requires a bull to breed cows. Which my experience says he cant do if he has melted like an ice cube in july. Again, if it works for you, buy em' that way. We all do the same things different but that is just ranching.

That is the reason I specifically asked if it would help if part of there bulls were NOT hard fed. I see your point about the bulls being over conditioned for your area. Would people be willing to try the genetics if the bulls were not over fat. I would be the last person in the world to tell you what kind of bulls to use. Other than the purebred Jersey I offered to help with.

 

[leanin' H]

I am not opposed to anything that will help the profit margin. My opinion is based off of experience in my part of the world. I have watched neighbors have wrecks chasing only carcass data. And i am sure some "finished fat" bulls may work well. I do my homework on genetics and then buy bulls that are raised the way i like them raised. But that pattern has only worked for 125 years on our place so we may not know what we are doing. :lol: :wink: You asked lots of questions mwj, so here's one back to ya. How many awesome calves will a broken down bull with too much fat in his equipment and bad feet and legs from being pushed too hard give ya come fall?

It's a balancing act for sure. To get the data on genetic potential you gotta have calves in a yard being fed. Which requires a bull to breed cows. Which my experience says he cant do if he has melted like an ice cube in july. Again, if it works for you, buy em' that way. We all do the same things different but that is just ranching.

That is the reason I specifically asked if it would help if part of there bulls were NOT hard fed. I see your point about the bulls being over conditioned for your area. Would people be willing to try the genetics if the bulls were not over fat. I would be the last person in the world to tell you what kind of bulls to use. Other than the purebred Jersey I offered to help with.

If you can find me a FAT jersey that would be the first one in history. :shock: :lol:

Denny and others who sell bulls know what sells. I happened to try and choose genetics from pedigrees and bulls which are not over fed. A lot of other folks must think otherwise. It's all good. :wink:

 

[Angus 62]

Was talking to a guy the other day that was complaining that the fat shiny bull he had purchased to cleanup his heifers after AI only sired a few calves last year and evidently did the same this year.

I have seen fertility tests on a lot of bulls over the years. Overfed bulls may pass a fertility test when the weather is relativity cool. Fat in a bulls testicles can damage his fertility for the rest of his life. I would bet money that if they pulled this bull on a 90+ degree day in June or July they would find he wasn't producing viable semen. THAT IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO BULLS FED TOO HARD. In a multiple bull pasture they wouldn't know what was happening.

Funny thing is he will buy the same kind of bull to replace the dud he just pounded out.

 

[Faster horses]

Was talking to a guy the other day that was complaining that the fat shiny bull he had purchased to cleanup his heifers after AI only sired a few calves last year and evidently did the same this year.

I have seen fertility tests on a lot of bulls over the years. Overfed bulls may pass a fertility test when the weather is relativity cool. Fat in a bulls testicles can damage his fertility for the rest of his life. I would bet money that if they pulled this bull on a 90+ degree day in June or July they would find he wasn't producing viable semen. THAT IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO BULLS FED TOO HARD. In a multiple bull pasture they wouldn't know what was happening.

Funny thing is he will buy the same kind of bull to replace the dud he just pounded out.

One thing for sure. FAT SELLS. :?

 

[Justin]

Was talking to a guy the other day that was complaining that the fat shiny bull he had purchased to cleanup his heifers after AI only sired a few calves last year and evidently did the same this year.

I have seen fertility tests on a lot of bulls over the years. Overfed bulls may pass a fertility test when the weather is relativity cool. Fat in a bulls testicles can damage his fertility for the rest of his life. I would bet money that if they pulled this bull on a 90+ degree day in June or July they would find he wasn't producing viable semen. THAT IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO BULLS FED TOO HARD. In a multiple bull pasture they wouldn't know what was happening.

Funny thing is he will buy the same kind of bull to replace the dud he just pounded out.

One thing for sure. FAT SELLS. :?

yes it does

 

[BRG]

I think there is a fine line between underfeeding bulls, to developing bulls to see their potential, all the way to over feeding them. We have a nutritionist on hand that helps us develop the bulls properly. There are several different ways to do it. At our ranch, we develop them without adding any corn to their diet, except for whats in the silage. If you have the right genetics you can do it properly at a lower mCal. We fed ours all winter at a .43 mCal ration, consisting of corn silage, oatlage, 50/50 ration of ground corn stalks and oat hay, modified distillers, and a liquid mineral pack. I thought our 2 year old's were developed nearly perfect, but I also thought the yearlings were a little green. But we had our sale this week, and we had several compliments on them and they sold better than ever before. When we feed them up, we make sure there is cleavage in their testicles, and not just a round full sack. If they get to round, or have a pile of bulls that are all around 40 centimeters, then you most likely have a sack full of fat. If this happens, you will most likely have fertility issues and bulls that fall apart on grass. Plus you will have testicles that will get smaller as they get thinner.

 

[leanin' H]

I think there is a fine line between underfeeding bulls, to developing bulls to see their potential, all the way to over feeding them. We have a nutritionist on hand that helps us develop the bulls properly. There are several different ways to do it. At our ranch, we develop them without adding any corn to their diet, except for whats in the silage. If you have the right genetics you can do it properly at a lower mCal. We fed ours all winter at a .43 mCal ration, consisting of corn silage, oatlage, 50/50 ration of ground corn stalks and oat hay, modified distillers, and a liquid mineral pack. I thought our 2 year old's were developed nearly perfect, but I also thought the yearlings were a little green. But we had our sale this week, and we had several compliments on them and they sold better than ever before. When we feed them up, we make sure there is cleavage in their testicles, and not just a round full sack. If they get to round, or have a pile of bulls that are all around 40 centimeters, then you most likely have a sack full of fat. If this happens, you will most likely have fertility issues and bulls that fall apart on grass. Plus you will have testicles that will get smaller as they get thinner.

FROM A REPUTABLE SEEDSTOCK OPERATION!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Thank you BRG! You just made my day. :wink: If I was closer I'd be up to see ya every year.

 

[Big Swede]

Thanks for your input BRG. I started mine on a 44 mCal for the first two months and then switched them to my heifer ration, a 37 mCal in January. I think they look just right. Of course they won't be needed till August 1st.

I haven't heard how your sale went, give us a report.

 

[4Diamond]

I am not opposed to anything that will help the profit margin. My opinion is based off of experience in my part of the world. I have watched neighbors have wrecks chasing only carcass data. And i am sure some "finished fat" bulls may work well. I do my homework on genetics and then buy bulls that are raised the way i like them raised. But that pattern has only worked for 125 years on our place so we may not know what we are doing. :lol: :wink: You asked lots of questions mwj, so here's one back to ya. How many awesome calves will a broken down bull with too much fat in his equipment and bad feet and legs from being pushed too hard give ya come fall?

It's a balancing act for sure. To get the data on genetic potential you gotta have calves in a yard being fed. Which requires a bull to breed cows. Which my experience says he cant do if he has melted like an ice cube in july. Again, if it works for you, buy em' that way. We all do the same things different but that is just ranching.

That is the reason I specifically asked if it would help if part of there bulls were NOT hard fed. I see your point about the bulls being over conditioned for your area. Would people be willing to try the genetics if the bulls were not over fat. I would be the last person in the world to tell you what kind of bulls to use. Other than the purebred Jersey I offered to help with.

If you can find me a FAT jersey that would be the first one in history. :shock: :lol:

Denny and others who sell bulls know what sells. I happened to try and choose genetics from pedigrees and bulls which are not over fed. A lot of other folks must think otherwise. It's all good. :wink:

Sold a fat jersey last week. Aren't as uncommon as you think.