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Seeking honest feedback

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master stockman

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After reading many posts over the last year or so on this forum, it is clear that this forum is full of straight shooting ranchers with some very solid opinions. So I figured what better place to seek some advice.

Over the last several years the Master Stockman team has taught numerous ranch management classes across Wyoming and Utah and even a few in Montana and Idaho. We have learned a lot from ranchers along the way as they provided feedback at our various workshops and encouraged us to provide more in-depth information and training. This led us to develop the Retooling Ranch Management Seminar and launch it this year. The seminar takes a unique approach with a focus on tools to improve success rather than a one size fits most strategy. Our first seminar was in Kansas City in January and we are currently preparing for Grand Junction on May 4-6. So far our registrations have been small in number. You can find out more about us and the seminars at www.masterstockman.com

Is it timing, location, cost, or possibly other factors that has limited the registrations of our seminars?

Thanks for your advice in advance,
Bridger Feuz - Master Stockman Consulting
 
Isn't spring as in May 4-6 a busy time on ranches down that way?
Sure is here, we are still calving, those that calve early are moving cows to pasture or getting ready to seed if they farm any ground.
 
May 4-6 would be one of the worst times to be away. Yes, cattle going back to grass, weaning fall calves, musk thistles making an appearance. What made the Grand Junction location desirable? I've been there and it didn't seem very ag oriented.
 
Timing, distance to travel and content. From the article linked on the website it appears you are with UW as an extension educator? I looked over the offering and while I can see that there might be some topics that are more in depth than what we see at the Range Beef Cow Symposium it appears to me that if I had to choose just one to attend, and lets be frank, most of us don't have the time or the inclination to run here and there to attend seminars, I am going to choose the Beef Cow symposium every time. Ranchers are quite independent. The Beef Cow Symposium just presents information, it is up to the individual to apply it as they see fit. A seminar that is going to teach us the "right" or "proper" way to do things is always going to have an uphill battle with ranchers.
 
Thanks for the feedback so far. Timing is always a huge problem for ranchers. Not really many times on the ranch that are convenient for seminars.

Rancherfred - I would agree Range Beef Cow Symposium is a great meeting to make it to every year. Our seminar is actually designed to make meetings like Range Beef Cow more valuable. The tools we teach help you decide if the new strategies, techniques, etc. that you would pick up on at Range Beef Cow will make economic sense given your individual set of resources and skills. We start our seminar making it clear that the person who knows how to operate your ranch the best is you. We just want to challenge you to think about your most important decisions and utilize some tools to improve success rates.
 
I think it has to do with time. A rancher has only so much time, so if they want to spend their time at a seminar they'll pick one, like rancherfred said. There are many options in ways to be 'educated' any more. Magazines, tv, internet, so much information is accessible, sometimes I know they feel like they are over-educated. Much of it can be accessed without leaving home, which really has an advantage.

Good luck.
 
I find it hard to take advice from someone who doesn't make their living off of cow's. Sure they make some but are out doing speaking arrangements as a major supplementation.
 
Denny said:
I find it hard to take advice from someone who doesn't make their living off of cow's. Sure they make some but are out doing speaking arrangements as a major supplementation.
Click to expand...

I have to agree Denny and your comment brings a story to mind.......


Several years ago, an expert was expounding at a seminar on what the perfect grass cow should look like and why.

A friend of mine who was attending the occasion asked this man where he lived. The speaker asked why he would want to know that.

My friend said he wanted to visit and look through this herd of perfect cows.

The speaker stated in a lowered voice....... " I don't own any cows"............
 
gcreekrch said:
Denny said:
I find it hard to take advice from someone who doesn't make their living off of cow's. Sure they make some but are out doing speaking arrangements as a major supplementation.
Click to expand...

I have to agree Denny and your comment brings a story to mind.......


Several years ago, an expert was expounding at a seminar on what the perfect grass cow should look like and why.

A friend of mine who was attending the occasion asked this man where he lived. The speaker asked why he would want to know that.

My friend said he wanted to visit and look through this herd of perfect cows.

The speaker stated in a lowered voice....... " I don't own any cows"............
Click to expand...

A guy I worked for in highschool ai'ed his cows to bulls that the AI rep suggested, a year later he tells me quote "If you ever own cows don't take advice from someone who doesn't" that and another statement of his "It's hard to be your friend and your Banker" have stuck with me since I was 16 years old...Both statements carry a lot of weight in my life.
 
Denny said:
I find it hard to take advice from someone who doesn't make their living off of cow's. Sure they make some but are out doing speaking arrangements as a major supplementation.
Click to expand...
+1
 
I also find it pointless to take advice from someone that raises cattle in an environment that isn't at least somewhat similar to your own. One more thing, when the data that comprises the information for epd's is largely gathered in an environment dissimilar to my own, what value is in the information for me?
 
Thanks for all of your feedback. It has been really helpful. It is clear we need to work on our timing going forward. It is also clear we need to better describe our seminar. I agree with many of you it is not a valuable use of your time to listen to someone that is all Hat and no Cattle tell you how to go about ranching. If we were to stand up a tell you which bulls to use, when to calve, which size cow to run, what type of grazing rotation to use, how to build a fence brace, etc. we would be wasting your time and ours. We tell participants at our programs they will learn as much from each other as from us. Talking with other ranchers is extremely valuable.

We do not tell you what to do, how to do it or when you should be doing things on your ranch. We only teach a set of tools to help you make those decisions for yourself with an emphasis on will you be better or worse off by implementing a change that you are thinking about on your ranch. There are ranchers on this message board who have attended our programs and they could certainly tell you we do not follow the "We know whats best for you Expert model". I realize this style does not appeal to everyone, but I guarantee those of you that show up to one of our Retooling Ranch Management Seminars will get significantly more value than the price of admission, cost to attend, and the sacrifice of time away from the ranch.
 
redrobin said:
I also find it pointless to take advice from someone that raises cattle in an environment that isn't at least somewhat similar to your own. One more thing, when the data that comprises the information for epd's is largely gathered in an environment dissimilar to my own, what value is in the information for me?
Click to expand...
I agree... Didn't realize you were over on this board Mike.
 
redrobin said:
I also find it pointless to take advice from someone that raises cattle in an environment that isn't at least somewhat similar to your own. One more thing, when the data that comprises the information for epd's is largely gathered in an environment dissimilar to my own, what value is in the information for me?
Click to expand...


Where have YOU been?
 
I have attended classes Bridger has put together and he is a fine instructor. I agree that some university types teach, because they cant DO! He isn't one of them. Anytime we simply generalize people in any group as all being the same, we lose out on a chance to learn a little something. Maybe some of you know all there is to know about ranching and cattle. I do not count myself that lucky. While some things that work on the desert may not work where others run cows and vice versa, I have learned many things by listening to how other ranchers run their outfits. Even from a lot of you here. If improving your soil health, managing cull cattle to increase your bottom line, getting more from your cowherd and even meeting and rubbing shoulders with other producers interests you then take a class from Bridger. He is a great teacher, a smart man and a decent human being. I'd go again in a minute. But I reckon to some of you all if a guy doesn't have 700 head he aint worth listening to. And apparently neither is a guy who has studied cattle and range improvement on the university level for the majority of his life and comes from a ranching background. Hell, Denny, who do you think invented the first welder? It was someone who never quit learning and thinking outside the box. For a guy who supplements his income making great trailers, I'd think ya may cut a guy you know nothing about, a little slack for basically doing the same thing.
 
leanin' H said:
I have attended classes Bridger has put together and he is a fine instructor. I agree that some university types teach, because they cant DO! He isn't one of them. Anytime we simply generalize people in any group as all being the same, we lose out on a chance to learn a little something. Maybe some of you know all there is to know about ranching and cattle. I do not count myself that lucky. While some things that work on the desert may not work where others run cows and vice versa, I have learned many things by listening to how other ranchers run their outfits. Even from a lot of you here. If improving your soil health, managing cull cattle to increase your bottom line, getting more from your cowherd and even meeting and rubbing shoulders with other producers interests you then take a class from Bridger. He is a great teacher, a smart man and a decent human being. I'd go again in a minute. But I reckon to some of you all if a guy doesn't have 700 head he aint worth listening to. And apparently neither is a guy who has studied cattle and range improvement on the university level for the majority of his life and comes from a ranching background. Hell, Denny, who do you think invented the first welder? It was someone who never quit learning and thinking outside the box. For a guy who supplements his income making great trailers, I'd think ya may cut a guy you know nothing about, a little slack for basically doing the same thing.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes...but what did he teach you about goats? That is the real question. Or maybe you learned about livestock diversification from him?
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
 
I've never been to one of these Master Stockman seminars, but here's my slant on it...

When I have questions about cows, I ask people with experience with cows. When I have questions about balers, I ask people with experience with balers. When I have questions about business, I ask people with experience in business. They may or may not own cattle.

Ranching is a business, like it or not, unless its just a tax write-off or straight-up hobby. If I limit myself to only taking advice from those who own cattle, I'm limiting myself to getting business (and baler) advice from only cattlemen (and cattlewomen). One does not need to own cattle in order to challenge my paradigms - which is not the same as telling me how to ranch.

Neither my banker nor accountant own cattle. I still talk to them before making big business decisions and rely on their expertise in specific areas.

I find great value in talking about the business of ranching with business people who do not ranch or own cows. They ask some great questions and make me think about what I do and how I do it. Same can be said for talking to and hearing from ranchers outside of my area.

Socrates said it is the mark of an educated man to entertain a thought without accepting it. I've never gone to a workshop or seminar and thought I should do everything they said - but that does not mean I didn't run through the scenario in my head. Education is a lifelong process, or so I'm told.
 
This is kind of my favorite way of taking in a symposium or a seminar any more (see link below). Being able to sort through what interests me from the comfort and convenience of my own office or living room. If a good video was made, it would certainly be worth paying for, or streamed audio/video. Time away is almost at more of a premium than it used to be for some reason, and it wasn't supposed to turn out that way. Anyway, the wife and I like to spend time away doing something that can truly be considered a vacation, as there is value in that scarce resource of time as well.

http://www.rangebeefcow.com/2015/newsroom.html#.VyeVdzArI2w

One of the last seminars I went to, was 4 days setting on folding chairs in a room with the air conditioner turned up (down?) so cold it was down right uncomfortable.....but we were told that was to keep everyone alert. It didn't. Not my cup of tea anymore.
 

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