John SD
Well-known member
Personally, I think we have enough kooks in DC already!
http://www.truthout.org/112708Y
http://www.truthout.org/112708Y
send Michael Pollan to Washington?
- Thread starter John SD
- Start date
Ben H
Well-known member
I have read The Omnivore's Dilemma, the letter to "Farmer in Chief", watched the debate between Pollen and John Mackey, Michael Pollan is no kook. There is a lot of stuff he puts on the table that needs to be looked at, he has created a big movement in this country for the way people want their food produced. Charles Darwin said something along the lines of it's not the strongest or smartest that will survive, but those able to adapt to change.
John SD
Well-known member
Ben, I've read his book too. He is no dummy. So maybe kook isn't exactly the correct word to describe him. How about zealot?
It isn't hard to see that his agenda aligns with the hard core vegetarian crowd. He is just not in your face with the agenda like groups such as PETA and HSUS.
Nevertheless I believe some of his ideas like "Meatless Mondays" are aimed at eventually putting us out of business. IMO, we in all areas of production agriculture need to learn the hard lesson not to write off or underestimate our opponents.
It isn't hard to see that his agenda aligns with the hard core vegetarian crowd. He is just not in your face with the agenda like groups such as PETA and HSUS.
Nevertheless I believe some of his ideas like "Meatless Mondays" are aimed at eventually putting us out of business. IMO, we in all areas of production agriculture need to learn the hard lesson not to write off or underestimate our opponents.
Great points, John.
Maybe it's time to focus on the fact that beef of a food that is consumed in LESS amounts than gov't recommendations.
And give the factual reasons it puts our health at risk to under-consume beef.
Beef Checkoff programs have made that point, but IMO, have not really gotten in the face of those making claims of too much consumption, which IMO, is needed to counter the years of such anti-beef hype.
We have allowed claims of over-consumption to stand, with too little challenge of those making the claims to verify them, which, of course, they cannot do.
mrj
Maybe it's time to focus on the fact that beef of a food that is consumed in LESS amounts than gov't recommendations.
And give the factual reasons it puts our health at risk to under-consume beef.
Beef Checkoff programs have made that point, but IMO, have not really gotten in the face of those making claims of too much consumption, which IMO, is needed to counter the years of such anti-beef hype.
We have allowed claims of over-consumption to stand, with too little challenge of those making the claims to verify them, which, of course, they cannot do.
mrj
Ben H
Well-known member
Michael Pollan is partially responsible for the fact that I can't keep up with the demand for Grass Fed beef, he has done a tremendous service for producers like myself. I believe that we are going to have to make some serious changes in direction, it will be painful for some, embraced by others. I did have a problem with his idea of one meal a week without meat, but even that I can see his point, it's just a conflict of interest when my business is beef. Even with that, I still don't see it effecting my sales.
My friend who also produces grass fed beef about 2 hours from me knows Michael Pollan as a family friend. He had dinner with him when he was up here speaking for a local college. He has nothing but good things to say about the man.
Buckle up, we're in for a rough ride. Those willing to change will do very well.
My friend who also produces grass fed beef about 2 hours from me knows Michael Pollan as a family friend. He had dinner with him when he was up here speaking for a local college. He has nothing but good things to say about the man.
Buckle up, we're in for a rough ride. Those willing to change will do very well.
PureCountry
Well-known member
Men like Michael Pollan or Joel Salatin should simiply make us stop and consider what we can do to increase our beef sales. Why do SOME consumers fear beef? We are talking about a far more educated and aware consumer than there has ever been. People look at a pic of a feedlot critter with tag and mud on it and think - I'm not eating beef!! They look at a pic of Joel Salatin's place with content cows grazing healthy pastures and go - That's the beef for me!!
Remember, not all beef is created equal. We must do a better job in this industry of ensuring we are producing the healthiest product possible. Do that, and you'll find yourself with the same problem Ben has - too many customers, not enough product.
It's just my opinion, but I think this is about marketing and production, not vegetarian or PETA vs. the poor rancher. It's all in our hands. If our so-called "representative" organizations don't listen, then we can always direct market, and go it alone.
Remember, not all beef is created equal. We must do a better job in this industry of ensuring we are producing the healthiest product possible. Do that, and you'll find yourself with the same problem Ben has - too many customers, not enough product.
It's just my opinion, but I think this is about marketing and production, not vegetarian or PETA vs. the poor rancher. It's all in our hands. If our so-called "representative" organizations don't listen, then we can always direct market, and go it alone.
Pure Country, don't we need to consider that the REASON some consumers fear beef is because groups like PETA have had MANY people and TONS of money dedicated to instilling those fears into consumers?
When there are many dedicated people capable of raising more money than we can imagine, all for the purpose of ending all productive uses of animals, we have to take it seriously.
After all, they have been successful in convincing even many cattle producers that grain fed beef is less healthful for consumers than is grass fed beef.
Or could it be a financial decision by cattle producers using those food fears for their own gain????
Where are the scientific comparisons SHOWING dangerous levels of, or lack of, anything in grain fed beef versus in grass fed, with the POSSIBLE exception of higher CLA levels in grass fed?
It is one thing to promote how we raise high quality beef on our own real family operated and owned ranches, in 'pristine' pastures, and quite another to denigrate as somehow unsafe or unhealthy, other beef production methods in an attempt to justify our own beef.
mrj
When there are many dedicated people capable of raising more money than we can imagine, all for the purpose of ending all productive uses of animals, we have to take it seriously.
After all, they have been successful in convincing even many cattle producers that grain fed beef is less healthful for consumers than is grass fed beef.
Or could it be a financial decision by cattle producers using those food fears for their own gain????
Where are the scientific comparisons SHOWING dangerous levels of, or lack of, anything in grain fed beef versus in grass fed, with the POSSIBLE exception of higher CLA levels in grass fed?
It is one thing to promote how we raise high quality beef on our own real family operated and owned ranches, in 'pristine' pastures, and quite another to denigrate as somehow unsafe or unhealthy, other beef production methods in an attempt to justify our own beef.
mrj
Ben H
Well-known member
Here's what your up against on the health claims:
http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm
and the scientific refrences:
http://www.eatwild.com/references.html
http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm
and the scientific refrences:
http://www.eatwild.com/references.html
John SD
Well-known member
Ben H said:
Ben, the thing about the eatwild.com site that turns me off is when I read things like in the first paragraph of the first link implying to the reader that grass fed beef is better than conventional "commercial" beef from a feedlot because "Furthermore,they do not contain traces of added hormones, antibiotics, or other drugs."
Well neither does my beef or any conventionally produced beef if the people are doing it are doing it correctly and following proper protocol.
I do not use implants. I rarely use oral or injectable antibiotics. If and when I do I observe proper dosage, administration methods, and withdrawl times of the products I do use. I don't feed medicated feed either. I do give recommended calfhood vaccinations and administer proper and timely pour on applications of internal/external parasite control.
I was at a family reunion this summer and was questioned about "organic" beef by one of my city cousins who is quite into the organic food thing. I told her that a cow pie is totally organic too, but I wouldn't necessarily want to eat it! :wink: :roll: :lol:
Ben H
Well-known member
John, do you have a large feedlot? How many of them do not use implants or feeds with antibiotics? It's my understanding that you use them to compete. Smaller scale producers can find markets for "naturally produced" beef, not to say that some feedlots can't (such as Pineland Farms Natural Meats aka Wolfes Neck right here in Maine).
It's a touchy issue, I had it drilled into my head in college how to manage with rBST, being a dairy major and all. I was against the labeling of No Artificial Growth Hormones, unless there was a disclaimer that there is no significant difference. I have started to go the path of providing what the consumer wants. I promote that I don't use growth hormones or fed-antibiotics. Because I deal directly with the consumer I can tell them how when I use an antibiotic I follow the label, provide proper dosage, follow witholding time and track it in my database (cattlemax). As far as hormones go, I tell them the industry standard is the slow releasing implant behind the ear, and I don't use it. I will admit to them that I use hormones for breeding synchronization. When you have the chance to describe that to customers, they are OK with it, they can relate to what they would do for their or their families own health. What people seem to be most concerned with is the constant or sub therapeutic uses of hormones and antibiotics.
It's a touchy issue, I had it drilled into my head in college how to manage with rBST, being a dairy major and all. I was against the labeling of No Artificial Growth Hormones, unless there was a disclaimer that there is no significant difference. I have started to go the path of providing what the consumer wants. I promote that I don't use growth hormones or fed-antibiotics. Because I deal directly with the consumer I can tell them how when I use an antibiotic I follow the label, provide proper dosage, follow witholding time and track it in my database (cattlemax). As far as hormones go, I tell them the industry standard is the slow releasing implant behind the ear, and I don't use it. I will admit to them that I use hormones for breeding synchronization. When you have the chance to describe that to customers, they are OK with it, they can relate to what they would do for their or their families own health. What people seem to be most concerned with is the constant or sub therapeutic uses of hormones and antibiotics.
John SD
Well-known member
No Ben, with a half dozen 16' steel feedbunks I don't think my operation qualifies as a large feedlot. :wink:
The beef I have processed for myself I let run with my replacement heifer calves. They graze native pasture all winter except stormy periods or too much snow to graze when I feed hay.
I usually feed a modest ration of cracked corn/DDG but haven't yet this year. No implants, antibiotics, or ioniphores. So I think my own beef is as "natural" and "organic" as it comes.
This year with the high feed prices and mild weather so far I have hesitated to do much supplemental feeding to the calves. I have a lick tub and Vigortone out to them and that's basically it since I turned the calves out on fresh pasture after weaning a month ago. The calves have only had enough grain to say they are bunk broke.
I'm selling a package of the steer calves this week. Gonna hafta bribe them to get them in with a bit of non-medicated creep. (which I bought in Sept because the feed guy had no corn/DDG available at that time) The cattle are certainly green.
The beef I have processed for myself I let run with my replacement heifer calves. They graze native pasture all winter except stormy periods or too much snow to graze when I feed hay.
I usually feed a modest ration of cracked corn/DDG but haven't yet this year. No implants, antibiotics, or ioniphores. So I think my own beef is as "natural" and "organic" as it comes.
This year with the high feed prices and mild weather so far I have hesitated to do much supplemental feeding to the calves. I have a lick tub and Vigortone out to them and that's basically it since I turned the calves out on fresh pasture after weaning a month ago. The calves have only had enough grain to say they are bunk broke.
I'm selling a package of the steer calves this week. Gonna hafta bribe them to get them in with a bit of non-medicated creep. (which I bought in Sept because the feed guy had no corn/DDG available at that time) The cattle are certainly green.
Ben H
Well-known member
There are many production standards you can use and develop a good market, there is a huge opportunity with the people who want to know where their food comes from. Then you can pick and choose what works for you and your market. Naturally Raised, Organic and Grass Fed are all different protocols, Naturally Raised is the only one of the three that doesn't have a USDA standard yet, but it will soon. I choose not to go Organic because I like to use pressure treated fence posts for my braces and corners/bends for my High Tensile electric.
This year I started buying some calves in to finish. The thing I found very difficult was finding calves who had not been fed grain. A larger grass fed company in Massachusets (Hardwick) was buying a pot belly or two from Montana I think.
This year I started buying some calves in to finish. The thing I found very difficult was finding calves who had not been fed grain. A larger grass fed company in Massachusets (Hardwick) was buying a pot belly or two from Montana I think.
REB EL
New member
Micheal Pollan may not be a kook, but I have never met anyone who could lie to your face and fabricate a story like he can. I have met the man and have a much different impression of him than do your friends Ben H.
I said to him that my problem with him was that I didn't trust anything he did and didn't believe anything he said. Pollan's response was that he could understand that.
I said to him that my problem with him was that I didn't trust anything he did and didn't believe anything he said. Pollan's response was that he could understand that.