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SINCE WE ARE TALKIN BULLS

H

HAY MAKER

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Feb 13, 2005
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Location
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BrightSide607L11.jpg


Im told this bull is in the fall sale,next month,never cared much about "epds''unless I need some replacement heifers,but Im told he would make a good heifer bull,maybe now since the bickering is settled down we can talk cattle..........so your opinion of this bull as a straight commercial heifer bull ?..............good luck
PS what would you give for a bull like this without "EPD" info
 
Can't say that I've got much familiarity with Brangus but I'd say he's probably a dang good bull. He's got a whole lot of things right about him, given his breed and intended environment. Lots of look to him, length of side, deep rib and muscle. My opinion.

HP
 
Looks like a pretty good bull. In todays trendy market epd's and dna testing for tenderness is just part of the game. But good old fashion sense is the best determination. All I would like to know is what kind of birthweigth to expect so I ain't out in the freezin cold pulling big ol calves
 
This bull is Brinks Bright Side 607L11 and since he'd be 5 yrs old he should have some calves on the ground and some daughters already calving. Don't know the base for Brangus EPD's but he's listed with a 2005 BW of +3.
Owner's are listed as Camp Cooley so they'd be the ones to ask how he is for a heifer bull or not. I don't mind the look of him but he wouldn't fit the direction of our program.

This is his page:
http://www.campcooley.com/AI_Sires/607L11.htm

Actually I get looking - it appears that he's also a son of the first bull (and half-brother to the third picture) that Haymaker posted under the other thread.
http://ranchers.net/forum/post-148199.html#148199
 
He ooks a little bold in the shoulders for calving heifers-I guess it depends on your definition of a heifer bull-some guys are happy with the odd assist-I'm not lol.
 
You'd prolly all be surprised at how small them brangus calves are at birth. Even tho they look like they'd throw big calves.....60 to 70 lb calves is about the norm. Been runnin Brangus bulls now for 15 years, and have only had one heifer that needed help. After the calf was out, come to find out it wasn't outta our bulls......neighbor simmental bull was the daddy...... :?
 
I used a couple of Brangs bulls a few years back. They had good calves but they are the only bulls I have ever used that gave me trouble with hip lock during calving. It was enough trouble that I used them one year and sold them to a stock contractor for rodeo use. I had a king Ranch Santa Gert. that i used good calves but they were a little harded to winter.
 
A big ranch in W. Montana used Brangus bulls and got into a heck of a calving storm. One C-section after another in their heifers. That year after calving, they built a new calving barn complete with an area for doing C-sections.

The cows were big Gelbvieh-Simmental cross. The only thing we could
think of was that they had too big of a genetic pool using 4 breeds.

They darn sure
NEVER used Brangus bulls again on heifers.
 
i use epd's but i like to see actual data, too. what was his birthweight? weaning weight?

just looking at the numbers, will you be retaining heifers? Mat epd isn't all that great.

i'd need a lot more info than bw epd & a picture to decide whether i'd buy him or not & how much i'd spend. :wink:
 
Something many don't know about the Brahma influence, the cows generally shut down the blood supply to the calf at 7 months gestation. This has the effect of moderating the birth weight of the calf. Colder weather in Northern climes has the same effect, but can be adjusted for by testing in warmer areas.

What happens when those genetics are used on non Braham cows, is a real crap shoot. Your not sure if the 70# bw on the bull was genetic or environmental (Brahma momma). From the stories about c-sections the answer is pretty clear with most.
 
I'm not big on EPD's either. It's too easy to "forget"to include some big birthed calf or some small weaned calf in the data. EPD's were invented by some college proffesor that was probablly a rancher that had gone broke. I guess we are all entitled to our opinion--thats mine! Nice picture of the bull. I don't have a place for brangus in my program, but in your country, a little ear sure helps cattle handle heat &bugs better so I'm told. For heifers I like a well put up bull with a straight barrel, small head, and tight shoulders. I'll select a lot narrower bull there than on cows. If I want a bull to keep replacements out of, not necessarily to use on 1st calvers, I like body capacityand width with that straight barrel.
 
txag said:
i use epd's but i like to see actual data, too. what was his birthweight? weaning weight?

just looking at the numbers, will you be retaining heifers? Mat epd isn't all that great.

i'd need a lot more info than bw epd & a picture to decide whether i'd buy him or not & how much i'd spend. :wink:
Click to expand...

That's why I like this bull,we are'nt interested in repacements,what's he worth ?..............good luck
 
HAY MAKER said:
That's why I like this bull,we are'nt interested in repacements,what's he worth ?..............good luck
Click to expand...

so you'd be selling at weaning? then, i'd want to know his weaning weight. :D

what's he worth? probably not as much as what he'll sell for.

......good luck.
 
Jason said:
Something many don't know about the Brahma influence, the cows generally shut down the blood supply to the calf at 7 months gestation. This has the effect of moderating the birth weight of the calf. Colder weather in Northern climes has the same effect, but can be adjusted for by testing in warmer areas.

What happens when those genetics are used on non Braham cows, is a real crap shoot. Your not sure if the 70# bw on the bull was genetic or environmental (Brahma momma). From the stories about c-sections the answer is pretty clear with most.
Click to expand...


Could you please back this up with some verifiable info??? I've looked and looked online and can't find anything at all stating anything remotely havin anything to do with this and I have never heard of such. Blood supply to a calf also carries oxygen and other nutrients to that calf. If blood supply was cut off, that calf wouldn't make it.
 
the_jersey_lilly_2000 said:
Could you please back this up with some verifiable info??? I've looked and looked online and can't find anything at all stating anything remotely havin anything to do with this and I have never heard of such. Blood supply to a calf also carries oxygen and other nutrients to that calf. If blood supply was cut off, that calf wouldn't make it.
Click to expand...

the_jersey_lilly_2000 said:
Could you please back this up with some verifiable info??? I've looked and looked online and can't find anything at all stating anything remotely havin anything to do with this and I have never heard of such. Blood supply to a calf also carries oxygen and other nutrients to that calf. If blood supply was cut off, that calf wouldn't make it.
Click to expand...

"Breed of Dam
Breed of dam effects on dystocia and birth weight do not follow a consistent pattern, except for Zebu-influenced females. Data from many sources clearly demonstrate that as the percentage of Zebu breeding increases in the dam, birth weight and dystocia decline. In Cycles I, II and III at MARC, Brahman- and Sahiwal-sired F1 dams exhibited assistance rates of only 1 and 2 percent respectively, compared to a range of 7 to 17 percent for 14 European breedtypes."

"Uterine Environment
Researchers at MARC reported that fetal growth during the last 20 percent of gestation is dramatically lower in Brahman than in Charolais cows, which helps explain the lower birth weights of calves from Brahman-influenced dams, as noted above. They provided evidence which suggested that this difference is due to differences in uterine blood flow and function of the utero-placental tissues."

http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modaa/e1611921.html


"Brahman Genetic Effects on Birthweight
It has long been known that birthweight of purebred Brahman calves is relatively low. This is also true when the dam is Brahman or Brahman crossbred but the sire is not. However, the reciprocal, Brahman sires on non-Brahman females, yields relatively heavy birthweights. Thus, it has been assumed that some low birthweight factor existed in the uterine environment of Brahman-type cows. Recent research conducted by Texas A&M at the Angleton station questions this assumption. In this work, various combinations of Angus and Brahman were produced. Also, embryo transfer was used to create various genetic combinations of donor dam, recipient dam, and calf. It was found that calves from Angus donors were heavier at birth and calves from Brahman donors were lighter, regardless of the breed-type of the recipient cow. This indicates there is some genetic influence on birthweight due to the breed-type origin of sperm and/or ovum. However, in commercial production, the important thing to remember is that Brahman-type genetics in the cow (whether from Brahman or a Brahman-derived breed) will aid in reducing calving difficulty."

http://stephenville.tamu.edu/~shammack/newsletter/011797.htm
 
I have heard of the blood flow theory but have heard just the opposite from what Jason said in colder climates.. They always said more blood was shunted to the interior of an animal in cold weather thus increasing blood flow to utereous an increasing calf size. Tehy used a study in which they sent animals bred in the same area.. Shipped half to Lousiana and the other half to northern Nebraska I think... Calves in the Nebraska group were 10 pounds on average heavier or something like that (I hope they were smart enough to keep all other factors even such as feed and the like but who knows, If Ican find the study I will let ya know).

Oldtimers in the area also claim that the colder the winter the more calving problems they have and the bigger the calves are, have heard it from vets too.. Can't tell ya why as this is of course ancedotal stuff.. The nutriotonist said the same thing last year... Hmm... Going to have to look into that.
 
Here is a study out of Nebraska that did some research on temp affects.

http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/beef/report/mp71-03.htm

Kind of interesting... I don't think I will be putting blankets on my cows though...



:wink:
 

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