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Size Reduction

Heavy BW is usually the best indicator of profit for the vet!!!! I've had alot of calves over 100# over the years as many Angus as Charolais-it's fine when it works not so fine when it doesn't. Using more moderate birth bulls is a subtle way of keeping mature cow size under control too-pen calvers might be able to push things a bit more but out on the grass you need to be a bit careful. How do I know Bw's when calving on the grass-the big dead ones are easy to catch and weigh.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Heavy BW is usually the best indicator of profit for the vet!!!! I've had alot of calves over 100# over the years as many Angus as Charolais-it's fine when it works not so fine when it doesn't. Using more moderate birth bulls is a subtle way of keeping mature cow size under control too-pen calvers might be able to push things a bit more but out on the grass you need to be a bit careful. How do I know Bw's when calving on the grass-the big dead ones are easy to catch and weigh.

I agree, Northern Rancher. We were young and more watchful when we had the Charolais program. It was a terminal cross sort of deal, and I had no intention of keeping any of the heifers to become future cows. Anymore we are going to all Angus bulls, and I do want the more moderate birthweight. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Northern Rancher,

I believe he means that an upper 80's and 90lbs bw will have a heavier ww than the 60's and 70lbs weight and thus be more profitable. Don't need to be little to be calving ease, and you are right no one wants 100lbs + weights. Do the moderation, not the extreme.
 
Ohh I'm not saying you have to breed everything longhorn but just stating that big BW's cause more trouble on average than lighter ones. My biggest calf ever was a 135 pound char out of a big braunvieh cow-he weaned at just over 900-would I want a herd like that NO lol.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Ohh I'm not saying you have to breed everything longhorn but just stating that big BW's cause more trouble on average than lighter ones. My biggest calf ever was a 135 pound char out of a big braunvieh cow-he weaned at just over 900-would I want a herd like that NO lol.

For those that have little management, small (lower than normal) BW's might help you in the short term. But if all bulls were selected for low BW's, there will be a day of reckoning when all cattle will have to be bred to LOWER BW EPD bulls just to have a live calf.

There is a high correlation between pelvic sizes in cattle and BW's.

Like BRG said. It's all about moderation.
 
BW is highly correlated to weaning weight. Bigger at birth will usually be bigger at weaning too.

As many have pointed out though, big calves die if the cow can't get them out. Dystocia (calving problems) leads to delayed rebreeding of the cow.

Pelvic measurements just selected the biggest framed animals, only eliminating some calving difficulties. The best measure I have is dad's hand. He has been doing A.I for so many years I don't blink if he says a heifer has a "funny" pelvis. He can't really describe it, he just knows it feels too small for the heifer in the chute.

Comparing different breeds, I would rather have a 100 pound Angus calf than a 100 pound Charolais. The density is different and might be compared to pushing out a ball bearing compared to a baseball. The old what is heavier a pound of feathers or a pound of lead also comes to mind.
 
BW is highly correlated to weaning weight. Bigger at birth will usually be bigger at weaning too.

Thanks for making my point.

As many have pointed out though, big calves die if the cow can't get them out.

Well....DUHHHH!!!!



Pelvic measurements just selected the biggest framed animals

Are you saying I can't select the larger pelvic sizes from animals within animals with the same frame score? :roll:



Comparing different breeds, I would rather have a 100 pound Angus calf than a 100 pound Charolais. The density is different and might be compared to pushing out a ball bearing compared to a baseball. The old what is heavier a pound of feathers or a pound of lead also comes to mind.

That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If a Char and an Angus calf weigh the same, the Char will be longer with longer legs.

The Angus guys I know say just the opposite of you. They equate the difference between a bowling ball and an eel that weigh the same.
 
Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:53 PM CST


Finding Choice, Prime cattle gets more difficult

By Jeff DeYoung, Iowa Farmer Today





LEWIS -- Finding cattle that grade Choice and Prime is becoming more difficult, according to an executive with Certified Angus Beef (CAB).

Larry Corah, CAB vice president, told producers at the recent 4-State Beef Conference demand for premium beef is highand supply continues to drop.


"There is a tremendous demand for quality beef. We could sell more, but we can't find the product," he said. "Last year we sold a half-billion pounds of Certified Angus Beef, and if we could find the cattle, we could double that within 12 to 18 months."

According to USDA figures, just more than 60 percent of cattle graded Choice in 1996. That figure dropped to about 57 percent in 2005.

CAB requires all beef to be at least Choice and from black-hided cattle. He said consumers prefer beef that is tender, has good flavor and is juicy. That requires certain marbling specifications, Corah noted.

He said industry concerns include inadequate marbling, and excess fat and variable cut weights.

"A box may say the cuts average 12.5 pounds, but you could have strips in there weighing anywhere from 8 to 14 lbs. If you are going to cut those into strip steaks, you are going to have some variability."

Corah said only 14 percent of all black-hided carcasses fit into CAB's guidelines. Producers can garner a healthy premium if their cattle grade Choice or above, he added. Between 40 and 50 percent of cattle are marketed on a grid, Corah said, and that figure could increase to 70 percent.

"The economic importance of quality grade is going to grow. Today, the spread between a Select and CAB-qualifying carcass of the same weight will be in the $150-200 range, making quality an important economic factor in profitability."

Corah believes several factors contribute to fewer quality cattle.

Health problems will harm carcass quality, he said citing Iowa State University research that indicated calves treated two or more times for bovine respiratory disease had an 18 percent reduction in grading low Choice compared to more healthy calves, he said. "The impact was a 44 percent reduction in Prime and 33 percent fewer premium Choice grading cattle. Sick cattle just don't grade."

Corah said feedlots have tended to place younger and less heavy cattle, which could result in increase health risk. Treatment costs and death losses continue to increase, he added.

"We are selecting cattle that have higher growth rates, and those do have more health problems. They have a voracious appetite, and producers have a harder time managing their intake, and most of the health problems tend to be acidic."

Another recent issue is the effect of ethanol co-products on marbling. Research at Kansas State University indicates cattle fed large amounts of co-products have lower marbling scores, Corah said.

"What they're finding that if the co-products are 30 percent or more of the ration on a dry-matter basis, it may impact marbling. If the amount is more than 40 percent, it has an impact.

"Iowa has reputation for having high-quality cattle, and you don't want to lose that reputation. We need to figure out how to use these co-products without impacting the quality grade."

Geography also could be playing a role in beef quality.

Since 1970, Corah said the number of cattle fed in Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois and Indiana has dropped from 40 to 16 percent. Over the same period, the percentage fed in Texas has risen from 14.4 percent to 26.1 percent. "Feedlots with less than 20,000-head capacity are located in Iowa and Nebraska, and tend to focus on higher quality. The larger yards are located in Kansas and Texas, and typically aim to upgrade Southern cattle."

http://www.iowafarmer.com/articles/2007/02/01/livestock/41cattle_jd.txt
 
How can this be OT? With angus bulls selling at an all time high and in bigger numbers than ever? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There should be a law that all cattlemen have to feed a certain portion of his calves and sell them on the grid so they will know what they are producing. Most have no idea.
 
Mike said:
How can this be OT? With angus bulls selling at an all time high and in bigger numbers than ever? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There should be a law that all cattlemen have to feed a certain portion of his calves and sell them on the grid so they will know what they are producing. Most have no idea.

Well the angus of today is definitely not the angus of 30- 40 years ago...Too many took after the fad of size and fast growth is everything and forgot everything else in their attempt to raise more pounds....Make them all instant continentals--make them so they would fit in markets they were never meant to fit into....Something was bound to suffer.....Just another failure of the "instant everything generation"......

The smart ones in the angus industry were the ones that didn't go fad chasing- and its starting to show with the huge raise in demand for their cattle....
 
Mike-Mike I've heard that old B.S. about calving ease so many times the groove is worn out on the record-you can use 75-85 pound bulls till the cows come home and not go to far wrong. I've done the big calf high performance deal-we ran Charolais for 35 years-I sell all my fat cattle on the grid-you don'yt need big BW calves to do well on the grid.
 

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