Does anybody have experience with Skipper W bred horses? I'm looking at a 2 yr old. The top side is all Skipper W breeding. The bottom side is Dash for Cash, Jet Deck, and Blondy's Dude. The bottom side I'm not worried about.
Skipper W bred horses
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loomixguy
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Then I wouldn't worry too much about the top side. That bottom side will carry through.
Faster horses
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That's a different cross for sure. I would hope what loomixguy said
would be right. The Skipper W's are pretty, but I never knew any of
them to be much for using horses. And they can get mad easy.
would be right. The Skipper W's are pretty, but I never knew any of
them to be much for using horses. And they can get mad easy.
We've got a grandson. He's about 20 now not the most handy a bit clumsy but very easy to handle. Rides with a snaffle bit. Anyone can ride him and he's been that way since a 2 year old. Great trail horse but not enough cattyness to make a good cowhorse.Hell of a kids horse though and pretty light sorrel with a flaxen mane and tail.
VB RANCH
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i have known a few skipper w's, all broncs, all were pretty good arena horses for this country, one was really good in the pasture but was pretty much cow killed, so he had to get good or die
cowwrangler
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most of them i seen were weak in the pasterns,but some people loved them.i myself didnt care for them
Jigger Boss
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My old mare has a touch of Skipper W in her. She was my saddle horse for the past 20 years. She always done what I asked of her and she's never quit me. I haven't ridden her for a couple of years now, but she still has "life". She's been a great mare. She loves moving cows and she's always there for you when you have a cow at the end of the rope.
I would run as far from the horse as I could I have just about that same breeding here. All I can say is if you are going to ride everyday 365 days a year than that is the horse for you. Like FH said they are pretty to look at but that it a very hot cross that can get you hurt if you are not ready.
Personally if I were you I just walk away and not look back.
Personally if I were you I just walk away and not look back.
flcowgirl5491
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We just bought a horse that came from the Barthle Bros. Ranch in Florida. His name is "Flit Maverick", their Flit horses are known for roping, steer wrestling, and general cow sense, etc. You would think this boy would be a bit crazy but he is so good around the barn. He is great with little kids and he is not "hot" at all. He is a joy to have around because we have a big family and don't know just who might come around. I am glad we bought him. No buyer's remorse. (And no, I don't get any money from that family.)
Faster horses
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He's pretty plain looking, to me anyway. I can't see much to get
excited about. Young horses are pretty cheap nowdays, so I think
I would be more selective. FWIW
I have to say, I like a horse with a droopy bottom lip like this
colt has. That shows
he's probably pretty low key. Watch out for horses that have a tight
bottom lip or swallow their bottom lip. They are pretty sensitive and
tend to be more high-strung.
excited about. Young horses are pretty cheap nowdays, so I think
I would be more selective. FWIW
I have to say, I like a horse with a droopy bottom lip like this
colt has. That shows
he's probably pretty low key. Watch out for horses that have a tight
bottom lip or swallow their bottom lip. They are pretty sensitive and
tend to be more high-strung.
Chimenea
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Well, I might as well throw in my two cents' worth, also.
We've used the Skipper W bloodlines in our breeding program for about ten years, and have had really good results. Good natured, athletic, and pretty hardy; and, they are extremely smart, with good memories and a pretty good stubborn streak. I've found that, in most cases, people either love them and get along with them well, or really dislike them and flat out don't like the bloodline. As I stated, we've had really good results with them and are really happy with ours. But you absolutely have to have the "right" Skippers in order to consistently have good results with them. The good ones are really nice; the bad ones absolutely stink.
Hank Wiescamp had a reputation for pawning off his dinks along with the really good horses as a condition of sale of the really good horses; that put a lot of dinks out of Alamosa and into the breeding world, with the dinks' only claim to fame being that they were branded Wiescamp and with little consideration for how, when, or why Hank Wiescamp sold those horses. Not only that, a lot of "Skipper" breeders over the past several years have crossed horses just because both the mare and stallion were Skipper bred, crossing individuals -- and entire branches of the bloodline -- that I think Hank Wiescamp himself would probably never have crossed. So the result, after several generations of these practices, is that you have some pretty nice Skippers out there, some pretty bad ones, and a lot of really average ones.
Generically, the speed breeding on the two-year-old's bottom side doesn't make me the tiniest bit nervous crossed on some Skippers, and Blondys Dude has some shared lineage with some of the Skippers (through Plaudit). But depending on exactly what Skipper horses are in the top half of the two-year-old's pedigree, it might or might not be a good cross.
I agree with FH's comment about the droopy bottom lip; at least the horse wasn't nervous when you took the pictures. But I don't know how representative two photographs are of a horse's overall disposition or what he's been exposed to over the course of his short life. And for a two year old, he's not a bad looking horse. He's not spectacular in his conformation, but the basics seem to be where they should be: his bone and feet look good; his muscling is adequate for a long two year old; his pasterns, hocks, and shoulder have a nice angle to them; he has a nice heart girth and withers; his neck ties in right and goes to a nice, tight throat latch; and his head is pretty nice. Sure looks like he could use a course of Ivermectin. It's hard to tell from the pictures what his back, loin, and hip look like, but he looks like he'll be a good, stout horse that cleans up nicely as a four or five year old. Most of the Skippers (even when they have a lot of outcross blood, like this one) will be late bloomers in their physical maturity; a lot of them will look like long yearlings well into their three year old year.
Anyway, if you like the horse and his attitude, I wouldn't be afraid of him just because he's Skipper bred; but I wouldn't fall in love with him just because he's Skipper bred, either. If you're buying him from the breeder, take a look at his older siblings and check out their attitudes and athleticism; a lot of that is heritable and could be indicative of your horse's future. If you'd like, let me know what his Skipper breeding is on the top side and I'll be happy to share with you what I know about those individuals (if I know them).
Cheers.
We've used the Skipper W bloodlines in our breeding program for about ten years, and have had really good results. Good natured, athletic, and pretty hardy; and, they are extremely smart, with good memories and a pretty good stubborn streak. I've found that, in most cases, people either love them and get along with them well, or really dislike them and flat out don't like the bloodline. As I stated, we've had really good results with them and are really happy with ours. But you absolutely have to have the "right" Skippers in order to consistently have good results with them. The good ones are really nice; the bad ones absolutely stink.
Hank Wiescamp had a reputation for pawning off his dinks along with the really good horses as a condition of sale of the really good horses; that put a lot of dinks out of Alamosa and into the breeding world, with the dinks' only claim to fame being that they were branded Wiescamp and with little consideration for how, when, or why Hank Wiescamp sold those horses. Not only that, a lot of "Skipper" breeders over the past several years have crossed horses just because both the mare and stallion were Skipper bred, crossing individuals -- and entire branches of the bloodline -- that I think Hank Wiescamp himself would probably never have crossed. So the result, after several generations of these practices, is that you have some pretty nice Skippers out there, some pretty bad ones, and a lot of really average ones.
Generically, the speed breeding on the two-year-old's bottom side doesn't make me the tiniest bit nervous crossed on some Skippers, and Blondys Dude has some shared lineage with some of the Skippers (through Plaudit). But depending on exactly what Skipper horses are in the top half of the two-year-old's pedigree, it might or might not be a good cross.
I agree with FH's comment about the droopy bottom lip; at least the horse wasn't nervous when you took the pictures. But I don't know how representative two photographs are of a horse's overall disposition or what he's been exposed to over the course of his short life. And for a two year old, he's not a bad looking horse. He's not spectacular in his conformation, but the basics seem to be where they should be: his bone and feet look good; his muscling is adequate for a long two year old; his pasterns, hocks, and shoulder have a nice angle to them; he has a nice heart girth and withers; his neck ties in right and goes to a nice, tight throat latch; and his head is pretty nice. Sure looks like he could use a course of Ivermectin. It's hard to tell from the pictures what his back, loin, and hip look like, but he looks like he'll be a good, stout horse that cleans up nicely as a four or five year old. Most of the Skippers (even when they have a lot of outcross blood, like this one) will be late bloomers in their physical maturity; a lot of them will look like long yearlings well into their three year old year.
Anyway, if you like the horse and his attitude, I wouldn't be afraid of him just because he's Skipper bred; but I wouldn't fall in love with him just because he's Skipper bred, either. If you're buying him from the breeder, take a look at his older siblings and check out their attitudes and athleticism; a lot of that is heritable and could be indicative of your horse's future. If you'd like, let me know what his Skipper breeding is on the top side and I'll be happy to share with you what I know about those individuals (if I know them).
Cheers.
the_jersey_lilly_2000
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Faster horses said:
Hmmm interesting....Toilet Paper is a tight lipped lil sucker. But I wouldn't concider him sensitive or high strung.
Now Cash on the other hand...has a droopy bottom lip....and he can get high strung.
Maybe we just have weird creatures LOL
Faster horses
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Well, there are exceptions to everything. I was talking in general.
It's a pretty well-know philosophy among horse people
Kinda like watching the cowlicks on a horses head.(The higher
the swirl, the hotter the horse, the lower the swirl the quieter
the horse, and in the middle was what was most desireable. From there,
two cowlicks mean the horse is complicated to figure out, but
when you get him figured out, you generally have a good one.)
After learning about this, a good friend
who worked for Rock Creek Cattle Co. in SW Montana checked
the swirls (cowlicks) on all the ranch horses and the meaning held
true in every case except one.
It's a pretty well-know philosophy among horse people
Kinda like watching the cowlicks on a horses head.(The higher
the swirl, the hotter the horse, the lower the swirl the quieter
the horse, and in the middle was what was most desireable. From there,
two cowlicks mean the horse is complicated to figure out, but
when you get him figured out, you generally have a good one.)
After learning about this, a good friend
who worked for Rock Creek Cattle Co. in SW Montana checked
the swirls (cowlicks) on all the ranch horses and the meaning held
true in every case except one.
Jassy
Well-known member
Faster horses said:
Yes FH yur absolutly right...My father in law had skipper W studs for years and though they sold well, when we brought several up to the ranch they never amounted to a good solid horse for us. I'll give them that they are very pretty, we had the palamino's, and a pretty good dispostion around the barn, but they never turned out like we had hoped...
Frisco
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What are those kind of horses?
Faster horses
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AQHA (Quarter horses)
Chimenea
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Frisco said:
A bloodline or "family" of Quarter Horses, Paints, and Appaloosas, developed through line breeding by a fellow named Hank Wiescamp at his ranch in Alamosa, Colorado; the bloodline was developed from the 1930s to 1990s from line breeding using seed stock from a handful of horses and bloodlines, including Old Fred (a palomino foundation Quarter Horse stallion with a lot of white markings), and horses from the breeding programs of Warren Shoemaker and Coke Roberds, among others.
Hank Wiescamp was inducted into the Hall of Fame for the AQHA in 1994, and is also in the Hall of Fame for the APHA, and the PHBA (Palomino Horse Breeders Association). He was a rather opinionated and cantankerous fellow, from what I understand, and got into more than one fight with the AQHA in his day. Many of the horses he bred, particularly in the heyday of his breeding program in the 1950's -1980's, carried the word "Skip" or "Skipper" in their registered names. So the bloodline he developed is usually referred to as "Skipper" or "Skipper W".
Skipper W (1945-1963) was Hank Wiescamp's best-known stallion, though he was not Hank Wiescamp favorite stallion or the one he considered to be his most influential. Don't get me wrong, he was a pretty good horse that rode well, would probably have been well known as a calf roping horse if he hadn't been taken to the breeding operation and out of competition at such a young age, and stood grand at the Denver National Show (his only time shown at halter); he was the best stallion that Hank Wiescamp had at the time, and he was a pretty good breeding horse, siring show horses and breeding stock that produced really well. But Hank Wiescamp himself was quoted on numerous occasions indicating that, though Skipper W was a really good horse, he wasn't the best he ever produced. But Skipper W was the one that was best known, and the best he had at the time when he started breeding a lot of mares after the Remount days. Anyway, Skipper W will be inducted into the AQHA Hall of Fame in 2011.
Frank Holmes, who literally wrote a book about Hank Wiescamp and his horses, wrote this about him (not in the book...):
The bloodline that most people refer to as Skipper W or Skipper horses, though, has developed some pretty strong devotees, some of whom refer to Hank Wiescamp with almost-eerie reverence, particularly since Hank Wiescamp's death a little over ten years ago. There are "Skipper W" breeders around that almost fanatically devote their breeding programs to perpetuating the bloodline.
The horses themselves -- at least the ones that comprised the Wiescamp family's breeding program at the time of Hank Wiescamp's death in 1997 -- were fairly "typey" due to the intense line breeding, with pretty consistent build and temperament. They were mid-size quarter horses (14.2 to 15.2, generally) with medium builds, generally pretty heads and necks, average or above average athleticism, and were generally on the intelligent side of average (which, as is the case with Arabian horses, without the right management can very quickly lead to "ornery", and from there to "broncy").
Where a lot of people have run into trouble in breeding and selling these horses, has been in not being nearly as good at being breeders as Hank Wiescamp was. When you're an exceptional horse breeder (which requires not only being a heck of a horseman, but also a certain degree of ruthlessness when culling), you can make line breeding work well for you; witness not only Hank Wiescamp's breeding program, but programs like Howard Pitzer's and Duane Walker's. When you're not an exceptional breeder, line breeding can quickly lead to intensely average or below average horses, with strongly heritable conformation or temperament weaknesses (or defects...) being perpetuated by the line breeding. This has been the case with a lot of Skipper W breeding programs that started with stock (some of it great, some of it culls) from Hank Wiescamp's horses. As a result, there are some pretty good Skippers out there; but there are also some pretty bad ones.
VB RANCH
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As a result, there are some pretty good Skippers out there; but there are also some pretty bad ones. Should go without sayin, But i'm gonna say it any way. AS WITH ALL BLOOD LINES
Chimenea
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VB RANCH said:
HA! Indeed!
