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Small Scale Biodiesel

J

Jinglebob

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Western South Dakota
Small Scale Biodiesel
Tuesday, 29 May 2007
Bill Webster of Biodiesel Fuels of Mississippi in Meridian, Miss. told the New Orleans Times Picayune that soybean oil had priced itself out of the fuel market. Webster's company had been making 3000 gallons a day from purchased soybean oil but had recently reduced his production to only 3000 gallons a month made from used restaurant grease. Webster gathers the used cooking oil from some 40 local restaurants for his plant. Biodiesel can be made from restaurant grease for about 64 cents a gallon and sells for between $3 and $3.35 a gallon, or about a 10 cent premium over fossil diesel. Using biodiesel from waste cooking oil reduces greenhouse gas emissions by up to 78% compared to regular diesel. However, biodiesel from soybeans can actually increase greenhouse gases due to the fuel used to plant and harvest the crop. David Pimental, a professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell told the New Orleans paper that planting soybeans for biodiesel requires 27% more fossil energy than the fuel produces. The beauty of used cooking oil is that biodiesel can be made from extremely small backyard facilities the paper said. Biodiesel Resource in Belle Chasse, Louisiana, sells kits to individuals who wish to make their own biodiesel.
 
I know, my point was that these processes touted as being the next big thing to save us all from the doomsday of global warming, are not what they're cracked up to be. Biodiesel from soy is the same is ethanol in the respect that, it just takes too much energy to make the stuff, compared to what you get out of it.
 
katrina said:
How much energy does it take to make soy diesel? 8)
Click to expand...
"David Pimental, a professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell told the New Orleans paper that planting soybeans for biodiesel requires 27% more fossil energy than the fuel produces."
 
Better get your facts straight before you post anything related to Pimental. His famous "study" and I'm using that term loosely, was based upon obsolete ethanol technology and some pretty ludicrous assumptions.

In his "study" he assigned 100% of the energy required for the farmer to live to the ethanol production process. I'm pretty sure that farmer isn't going to be killed or commit suicide if the ethanol isn't being produced, so I'd say he might've been stretching there... And he used some pretty outdated farming methods to calculate production practices & energy consumption... And he didn't factor in improved yields b/c of better genetics... And... Well I think you get the point.

He saw this as a way to get his 15 minutes. I'd say anything he does on biodiesel is an extension of the farce that he calls science that he's peddling about ethanol.

Phil
 
pknoeber said:
Better get your facts straight before you post anything related to Pimental. His famous "study" and I'm using that term loosely, was based upon obsolete ethanol technology and some pretty ludicrous assumptions.

In his "study" he assigned 100% of the energy required for the farmer to live to the ethanol production process. I'm pretty sure that farmer isn't going to be killed or commit suicide if the ethanol isn't being produced, so I'd say he might've been stretching there... And he used some pretty outdated farming methods to calculate production practices & energy consumption... And he didn't factor in improved yields b/c of better genetics... And... Well I think you get the point.

He saw this as a way to get his 15 minutes. I'd say anything he does on biodiesel is an extension of the farce that he calls science that he's peddling about ethanol.

Phil
Click to expand...

Got this from Allen Nation's blog.

Thanks for the other side of the coin. :-)
 
Not going to disagree with you pknoeber, but I'd never heard Pimental's jarble until JB posted it. The research I've heard stating the imbalance of energy input VS. output, was on a recent CBC documentary. Several scientists from different universities were interviewed in it, all stating that these production methods were just not sustainable. The documentary was called "The End of Suburbia".
 
I read that same article this morning checking out Allen's Blog before coming on here. Spent some time looking for a place to get the equipment. There's a place I found in Massachusets that has the setup for about $3000. You can make up to 80 gallons a day. No conversion needed for engines, can use for home heating oil too.

http://www.newenglandbiodiesel.net/

What I'm curious about is the tax/legal issues if you were to make more then you can use and sell it to your neigbors
 
Ben H said:
I read that same article this morning checking out Allen's Blog before coming on here. Spent some time looking for a place to get the equipment. There's a place I found in Massachusets that has the setup for about $3000. You can make up to 80 gallons a day. No conversion needed for engines, can use for home heating oil too.

http://www.newenglandbiodiesel.net/

What I'm curious about is the tax/legal issues if you were to make more then you can use and sell it to your neigbors
Click to expand...

Ben H....I believe, if there were issues, I'd trade or barter for something they have. Maybe I'd trade even if there were not any tax/legal issues.

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 
>>I am old enough to remember the oil embargo of 1973. It can happen again. We need other sources of fuel. Let the Arab world keep their oil.<<

Just goes to show what an IGNORANT person your are. All emotion, no facts or thoughts.

Ethanol will never replace fossil fuels. There isn't enough land in US.

The future lies in CTL (thats coal-to-liquids).
 
The anti-ethanol crowd has done a good job of misleading about ethanol. No ethanol won't replace all fossil fuels that is not a possibility but this country hasn't built a new refinery since the late 70's. My question for those is what would be the price of gas today if there was no ethanol?
 
there is a lot of potential for coal gasification... Also was a lot of potential for it 15 years or so ago when I first heard about it and we were told it was 10 years away if we started planning for it now.. Problem is that we are still 10 years away now.. You have a lot of options to limit our need for oil if you really want to go that route. You could go electric vehicles that were charged with power obtained from nuc power if you want something that won't consume any fossil fuels... Carbon neutrel even maybe? But that, along with the coal gassification doesn't sit wel with the global warming crows or the NIMBYs of the world so than what do you do? Cellulosic ethanol? Bio diesel? Diesel hybrid vehicles? Electric based on solar or wind power? I don't know... could even be hydrogren one of these years... Last but not least, gas/oil/fuel in general gets expensive enough people will find ways to conserve... US oil consumption was down last year from the year before but world demand was still up..




As far as the study from cornell and a lot of the other ones it was based on something like 140 ushell corn grown under irrigation and I believe conventional tillage. I would imagine, and I could be wrong, that the energy yield based on 210 bushel corn ground, non irrigated would be a little more friendly.. But no, there isn't enough land in the country for a grain based ethanol system to work for a huge amount of our needs..
 
>>there is a lot of potential for coal gasification... Also was a lot of potential for it 15 years or so ago when I first heard about it and we were told it was 10 years away if we started planning for it now.. Problem is that we are still 10 years away now.. You have a lot of options to limit our need for oil if you really want to go that route. You could go electric vehicles that were charged with power obtained from nuc power if you want something that won't consume any fossil fuels... Carbon neutrel even maybe? But that, along with the coal gassification doesn't sit wel with the global warming crows or the NIMBYs of the world so than what do you do? Cellulosic ethanol? Bio diesel? Diesel hybrid vehicles? Electric based on solar or wind power? I don't know... could even be hydrogren one of these years... Last but not least, gas/oil/fuel in general gets expensive enough people will find ways to conserve... US oil consumption was down last year from the year before but world demand was still up..
<<

Good post. Not sure if I agree US consumption was down or not, but actually is irrelevent as 2.5 BILLION Chinese and Indians want to move from rickshaws to cars.

The EIA report out today has this years 4 week rolling average gas consumption at 1.4% above last year, and this is happening with $3.20+ gasoline. The energy appetite of the country seems insatiable.

Here is some info from todays report:

Re: Summary of Weekly Petroleum Data for the Week Ending May 25, 2007

Everybody has their takes on these reports but I found the following points salient to my current investing:

>>Total motor gasoline imports (including both finished gasoline and gasoline
blending components) last week averaged 1.6 million barrels per day, the third
highest weekly average ever.<<



>>Total motor gasoline inventories increased
by 1.3 million barrels last week, but remain well below the lower end of the
average range.<<



>>Over the last
four weeks, motor gasoline demand has averaged over 9.4 million barrels per day,
or 1.4 percent above the same period last year<<

Sounds like continued good news for refiners.
 
Here is a good little clip from Andy Weissman, a pretty sharp energy guy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=350048522&play=1
 
We make our own biodiesel (as you all know) and just got a synitrafuge(sp). We switched our operation over from an engine to electricity....
It can be done............
I can't wait till the warrenty is up on my big dog so I can tell the rag heads to kiss my ash....... I'll gladly bend over......
 

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