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Sold calves, drys yesterday

Silver

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
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5,233
Location
BC
We tested the waters at the auction yesterday with 100 str calves (avg. 606lbs after 3% shrink and 120 miles trucking), got a whopping $.90 /lb for them.
Dry cows averaged about 1350 lbs, averaged $.29 /lb
Dry heifers averaged 900lbs, $.80 /lb
Dry heiferettes avg. 1000lbs, $.46 /lb
Cull bulls $.2325 - $.265 /lb

All in all, pretty dismal especially considering we topped the sale with drys and bulls. For some reason we were a nickle off with the str calves. But thats life in the fast lane I suppose.
 
I sold some this week and some last week.Not a good feeling to watch your calves sell so cheap,but banker wants some money.What breed were your steer calves?
 
Silver said:
We tested the waters at the auction yesterday with 100 str calves (avg. 606lbs after 3% shrink and 120 miles trucking), got a whopping $.90 /lb for them.
Dry cows averaged about 1350 lbs, averaged $.29 /lb
Dry heifers averaged 900lbs, $.80 /lb
Dry heiferettes avg. 1000lbs, $.46 /lb
Cull bulls $.2325 - $.265 /lb

All in all, pretty dismal especially considering we topped the sale with drys and bulls. For some reason we were a nickle off with the str calves. But thats life in the fast lane I suppose.

Our market is a bit higher here, 600 lb steers are up to a $1.05.

Is that how all your shrink is calculated out there?? Here after 120 miles we would only get 1%.

Under 50 miles it is 3%, 50-100 miles is 2%, 100-150 miles is 1% and over that is 0%. Unless you go to a Heartland mart and they calculate it a lot differently......
 
This may be a dumb question and I would rather stay away from a bull session arguement but what is driving your prices that low?

have a cold one

lazy ace
 
lazy ace said:
This may be a dumb question and I would rather stay away from a bull session arguement but what is driving your prices that low?

have a cold one

lazy ace

Our fat cattle are priced in relation to your minus the Basis and now we have greater costs in removing SRM's. Just a greater cost of doing business. The Basis is large then ever.
 
lazy ace said:
This may be a dumb question and I would rather stay away from a bull session arguement but what is driving your prices that low?

have a cold one

lazy ace

Multiple factors.

Fats are hanging at $78 cwt with downward pressure.

Cost of gain at feedlots is projected at 90 cents because of high grain prices, forage rates are based on grain prices as well.

A common silage formula is 10 times the cash barley bushel price for a wet ton of silage.

Barley hit $4.60 for a short time and has fallen just under $4 because corn per tonne is landing in cheaper.

The high Cdn dollar takes 90+ cent US fats to less money, then add vet costs, fuel, etc., the low 70's is equivilent.

Cull stock is not likely to move across to the US and many producers are selling off, flooding the market for burger and trim.

Some estimates are 30% loss of producers most feedlots under 10,000 hd and a few auction markets because of the poor outlook.
 
I don't read Bull Session much any more (if at all) and there are concerns down here about Canada's 'over 30 months of age' cattle coming down.
I've mentioned in these discussions that I don't think you have the cattle up there (based on comments made here at this site) that
some think you have, and that it might make a bump in our markets
for awhile, but it wouldn't be real bad.

So what do you think? Am I close or wayyyyyyyy off base?
Canadians and Americans please weigh in here.
 
Faster horses said:
I don't read Bull Session much any more (if at all) and there are concerns down here about Canada's 'over 30 months of age' cattle coming down.
I've mentioned in these discussions that I don't think you have the cattle up there (based on comments made here at this site) that
some think you have, and that it might make a bump in our markets
for awhile, but it wouldn't be real bad.

So what do you think? Am I close or wayyyyyyyy off base?
Canadians and Americans please weigh in here.



Silver
Dry cows averaged about 1350 lbs, averaged $.29 /lb
Dry heifers averaged 900lbs, $.80 /lb
Dry heiferettes avg. 1000lbs, $.46 /lb
Cull bulls $.2325 - $.265 /lb


THE ASSINIBOIA LIVESTOCK AUCTION


Date: Week - October 24, 2007 Total Cattle: 6090

D1 & D2 Cows Sold From 0.27 To 0.33
D3 Cows Sold From 0.21 To 0.26
Canner Cows Sold From 0.15 To 0.20
Feeders Cows From 0.30 To
Slaughter Bulls From 0.28 To 0.34

Glasgow Stockyards
October 25, 2007 Head 1365 cattle
Utility & Commercial $46.00-$53.00
Cutter & Canner Cows $46.00-$53.00
Bulls- $55- $65


When you can purchase cattle at these prices- which are in cases 2 to 3 times lower than US cow/bull prices now---- butcher them and send them down as boxed beef it is going to have an impact...

Prices may raise a little in Canada with the increased demand-but most impact will come with adding the additional supply to the US, with no additional demand which will, and from buyers I've tallked to, already has lowered US cull prices since the announcement...

Especially since this rule change goes into effect right at the top cull period (for our area anyway)- November- when there is already a large supply of cull beef going after folks come off pasture, get their preg testing done, etc......

I think cull prices in the US could get UGLY- before they even out some- but if history keeps true-- the US will take a bigger hit- than Canada will get gain... :(

------------------------------------------------------
HEY- FH-- Sounds like Glasgow may be coming your way for football playoffs next week....Just got thru listening to Glasgow beat Choteau 14-7...A 7-7 score all game- and Glasgow got a touchdown on 4th and goal with 13 seconds left :shock: I think if Baker won- then we play Baker.....
 
3words said:
I sold some this week and some last week.Not a good feeling to watch your calves sell so cheap,but banker wants some money.What breed were your steer calves?

Our calves are from blonde d'aquitaine based cows, bred to blonde and red angus / simmental cross bulls.
I think we'll hang onto the rest for a while and see how the market sorts itself out. I might even go talk nice to my banker and see if we can keep the rest of the steer calves until spring or summer.
 
OT, its interesting to note that one big reason for our low prices is the fact that our high dollar makes american beef imports cheaper therefore making it very difficult to move Canadian boxed beef anywhere. So I don't think you'll have to worry about us flooding your market with beef in the near future.
Live cattle maybe.... :lol:
 
Silver said:
OT, its interesting to note that one big reason for our low prices is the fact that our high dollar makes american beef imports cheaper therefore making it very difficult to move Canadian boxed beef anywhere. So I don't think you'll have to worry about us flooding your market with beef in the near future.
Live cattle maybe.... :lol:

Plus, the way I understand it, those cows have to be born later than 1999 and they have to verify that somehow. Don't know, but the vast majority of our cows are NOT home raised, and I don't see how we can prove whether they were born before or after 1999. And unless we have an actual birthdate on the animal, we can't age verify anything through the CCIA website. And it is kinda hard to tell the difference between an 8 year old cow and a 10 year old cow, wouldn't you say.......
 
Thanks for the explanations. I guess I thought your high dollar would do different things. :oops: I love economics, in fact when I was in college the professor could see how much I enjoyed the course, he asked me to take it again the following semester! Man that two year degree was the best four years of my life. :wink:

have a cold one

lazy ace
 
Silver said:
OT, its interesting to note that one big reason for our low prices is the fact that our high dollar makes american beef imports cheaper therefore making it very difficult to move Canadian boxed beef anywhere. So I don't think you'll have to worry about us flooding your market with beef in the near future.
Live cattle maybe.... :lol:

:???: :???: :???: :???:
I don't buy that.......How could the US imports to Canada be cheaper than what they're stealing the culls from you now!!!! When they're paying the prices they are down here...

Nope it will even out in time- but this fall/winter is not going to be nice--with the Packers being able to source more cull boxed beef from Canada from cows they're stealing for less than $400 and bulls they pay $600 for.......US price has to drop-- unless a new demand comes up somewhere....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.00 US dollars = 0.98 Canadian dollars

Exchange rate: 0.980400
Rate valid as of: 10/27/2007

1.00 Canadian dollars = 1.02 US dollars

Exchange rate: 1.019992
Rate valid as of: 10/27/2007


Using your cattle--Silver- compared to the same price as at the Glasgow sale Thursday....

1350 lb cow at $29 CDN = $391.50 CDN
US 1350 lb cow at $53 = $715.50 with currency exchange = $701.19 CDN

Difference- Canadian cow $309.69 CDN LESS

2325 bull at $26.50= $616.12 CDN
2325 bull at $65. = $1511.25 US--- with currency exchange = $1481.02 CDN

Difference-- Canadian bull -- $864.90 CDN LESS
 
This just happened to be in todays Sunday Billings Gazette....

Dr. Raths and MSGA are saying exactly what I was saying that I gathered from talking to some of the buyers-- that from the day of the announcement-- the effect of the border opening has been factoring in-- with a drop of about $10-20 on cull cows and bulls and about the same on calves since the Sept announcement...And it is hitting right at ranchers prime cull sale time- when most expect to take in 15-25% of their yearly income from culls- which I doubt anyone in this USDA even knows :roll: ...

If anyone tried to contract calves after Sept. 15 they know what I am talking about-- because the $1.20-1.30 contracts immediately vaporized..So the Canadian Christmas cow is hitting producers again thanks to our USDA....How much more it will affect is anyones guess- but the price has steadily headed down.....


Cattle movement across Canadian border expected to be slow
By JIM GRANSBERY
Of The Gazette Staff

When the U.S. border opens to Canadian cattle older than 30 months on Nov. 19, the influx of older cattle coming south will be minimal, ranchers in Alberta and Saskatchewan say.

Age verification requirements, currency parity and transportation costs will limit movement.

Nevertheless, Montana cattlemen argue that the timing of the opening is poor for the U.S. cull market and is premature in that age limitations on U.S. cattle/beef exports should first be resolved with Japan and South Korea. Also, the risk of bovine spongiform encephalopathy contamination from Canadian cattle is too great, some say.

The specters of congressional intervention or judicial injunction are hovering just offstage, too. The mid-November deadline is the latest chapter in a saga that began in 2003 with the discovery of BSE in cattle on both sides of the border. Since that time, 10 Canadian animals have been verified with BSE; three animals in the United States have been confirmed, the first being an import from Canada.

BSE, also known as mad cow disease, is a brain-wasting disease caused by warped proteins called prions that are found in the central nervous system tissues of infected cows. In the mid-1980s, an outbreak of BSE in the United Kingdom resulted in the slaughter of thousands of infected cows and collapse of the cattle and beef markets.

Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease

Since the 1990s, about 150 people in the United Kingdom have died as a result of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease from eating the infected tissues of BSE cows. Another 10-12 persons have died in Europe as a result of vCJD. There has been no indigenous case of vCJD in Canada or the United States.

Since July 2005, Canadian live cattle under 30 months and beef from such animals have been allowed into the United States. Under the new rule, the U.S. Department of Agriculture will allow imports of cattle and bison born on or after March 1, 1999, and meat from all animals.

"Most of us cannot prove the age of our cattle," said Brian Weedon, who ranchers outside Swift Current, Sask. "We have a set of records but they're not specific enough.

"We are just one of thousands of operators, and other than the purebred producers, we can't verify the age," he said.

Weedon said there are 20,000 producers in Saskatchewan, but that three-fourths of them have fewer than 70 head of cattle in their herds.

"We've downsized on the cattle because of grain prices," he said. "We're grain farmers with a few cows."

Wheat and barley prices in Canada and the United States have risen to record levels this summer and fall because of narrow supplies around the world. More acres are being planted to wheat this fall and prospective plantings for spring wheat are expected to increase.

The Canadian dollar has risen sharply and is now worth more than the U.S. dollar.

In November 1998, a Canadian dollar was worth 65 cents in U.S. currency. This week it took $1.03 to buy a Canadian dollar.

Economic millstones

Weedon said the loss of the export market with the discovery of BSE in Canada in 2003 and the rise in the value of the "loonie," as the Canadian dollar coin is known for the engraved loon on its head, have been "economic millstones that are tough to bear."

"There is not a lot of optimism up here because of the exchange rate," said Reynold Bergen, who oversees animal health and welfare issues for the Alberta Beef Producers in Calgary. "It is more difficult for us to send feeder or fed cattle. It is providing a disincentive."

Bergen said calf prices in Alberta this fall are off by 30 percent because feed prices are so high. Canadian cattle feeders use barley as the mainstay of the feeding ration, and like all grains this year, it rose to prices not seen before.

"The border will open when it opens," he said referring to the Nov. 19 date and possible U.S. congressional and court action.

He added, "There are not a lot of animals eligible" under the USDA's new rule.

As of July 1, the USDA reported there are 120.7 million cattle and calves in the United States and Canada. The U.S. inventory checks in with 104.8 million head, while Canada has 15.9 million.

More than half of Canada's cattle are in the two provinces directly north of Montana: Alberta counts 6.5 million, Saskatchewan, 3.4 million. The remainder are spread among the other eight provinces in Canada. The report was prepared in cooperation with Statistics Canada.

South of the 49th Parallel, views are split as to what effect the new rule will bring.

"When we commented on the USDA proposal, we opposed it," said Errol Rice, executive vice president of the Montana Stockgrowers Association. "It is not that we feel the cattle are unsafe, but because of the timing and the economic impact.

"It is right in the middle of the bull and cow cull market," he said. "We suggested that it be made effective in March or early spring."

"We want our cull cattle to cycle through," he said. In late fall, ranchers cull their old bulls and cows and send them to slaughter. The beef ends up in various canned beef products.

Rice also alluded to a previous interference with the market when the whole-herd dairy buyout was instituted by USDA in 1986. The sharp influx of dairy cattle into the market collapsed prices for feeder calves and fed cattle ready for slaughter that year.

"It was quite serious," said Dr. Dick Raths, DVM of Lewistown, referring to the unintended effects of the dairy buyout. "It did not do that much for the dairy guys either."

"The market has already factored it in and that is money out of people's pockets," Raths said.

Rice said the USDA argues that foreign buyers "are looking to how we and Canada work together."

"We'll set the standard with Canada, but first we need to get Japan and Korea on the same level," he said. The two Asian countries have imposed a 20-month limit on beef coming from the U.S. and Canada.

Alberta rancher Erik Butters describes that position as "blatant economic protectionism." Butters operates just west of Calgary.

Rice said that a labor shortage and the parity of the dollars have Canadian slaughter plants running below capacity.

"We don't expect too many cattle to come south," he said. "The original estimates were about 700,000. Now they say 75,000 or less."

Rice noted the U.S. feeder cattle market has declined since USDA announced the November deadline.

"There has been a psychological impact already on the feeder market," Rice said. "It is not down solely because of the USDA, but that weighs into it."

At the beginning of September feeder cattle futures were at $119 a hundredweight. October futures are now below $111.50 per cwt.

Butters said the currency exchange rate is "absolutely a disincentive" to send cattle south. "It affects everything we sell you - lumber, oil, cattle," he said. Trade between the United States and Canada is more than $1 billion a day.

He added that the USDA is trying to set rules based on international standards based on scientific evidence because Canada and the United States want access to world markets. Butters agrees with that goal, but wants Japan and South Korea on the same standard.

Feed barley prices have nudged up to $5 a bushel, he said. One reason is that feed wheat used by Canadian ethanol producers has taken a feed substitute away from feedlot operators.

Feeder steer prices are down to $1 per pound, Butters said, while feeder heifers are down to 80 cents a pound.

Regardless of how few over-30-month cattle that come across the border, the cattle producers organization R-CALF USA (Ranchers-Cattlemen Action Legal Fund) remains opposed to any.

The group is pondering a third attempt to keep Canadian cattle out of the United States via the courts.

CEO Bill Bullard said Wednesday that seeking an injunction "is under serious consideration."

R-CALF has fought a protracted and expensive legal battle against any importation of Canada's cattle until it is proved that its herds are BSE-free.

Bullard added that R-CALF supports congressional efforts to pre-empt the Nov. 19 opening. Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., has introduced a resolution opposing the USDA's action. A companion bill is in the House. The measure would have to pass both chambers and be signed by the president in order to preempt the effective date.

"The USDA admits that the new rule would allow BSE into the United States, Bullard said. "That is unacceptable. And the USDA does not specify how it is going to verify the age of the cattle."

"We have little confidence that few numbers would enter," he said.

Bullard said that the USDA estimates that 19 to 105 BSE infected animals could enter the United States under the new rule.

The bans on feeding rendered ruminant animals to cattle on both sides of the border are not being enforced, therefore putting U.S. cattle at risk of BSE contamination.

Raths said the USDA's credibility is at stake.

"They have said that 1999 is the effective feed ban year in Canada," Raths said. "Yet animals born after that date have been identified with BSE.

"How do you justify that?" he asked. "It don't fly right with me."

Bullard emphasized that ruminant feeding "is the leading source of infection in Canada."

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2007/10/28/news/business/20-cattle.txt
 

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