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somebody talks too much

jodywy

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Joined
Feb 11, 2005
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Location
Cabin Creek, Carlile,Wyoming
http://www.trib.com/articles/2006/10/15/news/wyoming/48fa6e4fcf592cbe872572070020f891.txt
Squeezed in Star Valley

By WHITNEY ROYSTER and JEFF GEARINO
Star-Tribune staff writers
AUBURN -- It's 1 in the afternoon on a rainy Thursday, and Jody Bagley is doing something he'd rather you not know.

Bagley, a regional vice president of the Wyoming Stock Growers Association, is herding lambs onto a truck.

He's a cattleman, but his work as a rancher has him dabbling in all kinds of activities, including helping a friend load lambs on this day. Bagley raises some sheep and was filling the truck with some of his stock as well.

Bagley is well known in Star Valley. He's on the Star Valley Land Trust and from the Bagley Ranch, which has been in the family for generations.

But all that may change for the 48-year-old father of three. Soaring land prices and increased costs in fuel, feed and drought have Bagley and other longtime western Wyoming ranchers looking to leave for different, if not greener, pastures.

"We're looking at trading one acre for 23 acres north of Lusk," he said. "One cow for three cows."

Bagley and many other ranchers are feeling the pinch. Big-money land offers stemming from residential development in picturesque pockets of Wyoming are prompting many longtime ranchers to consider selling to developers. Maintaining livestock herds in fierce winters and fending off multimillion-dollar offers for land becomes more difficult each passing year, even when livestock prices are high.

The Bagleys' 688-acre ranch borders the Caribou National Forest in extreme western Wyoming and is cut by the Salt River. The ranch is already being eyed for development, even though it's not yet on the market.

"We have Realtors calling, saying, 'Do you want to sell?"' Bagley said. "They say they have people interested."

Bagley has set a price "north of $5 million" and said he would like to see a "conservation buyer" purchase the property and keep it as open space. Bur realistically, someone will buy the north part of the ranch, on rolling hills, for development. The fate of the acreage near the river is unclear.

"I see development pushing most of the agriculture out of this valley," he said.

Across the country, residential development has been displacing traditional agriculture for many years. Glenn Pauley, executive director of the Wyoming Stock Growers Agricultural Land Trust, said the problem facing open spaces and ranchers is a "national problem."

"It largely varies in intensity according to development pressures," Pauley said. "The Rocky Mountain West is now the fast-growing region of the country."

According to the American Farmland Trust, Wyoming has nearly 2.7 million acres of ranchland at risk of development by 2020. Montana and Idaho have a little more than 5 million acres at risk each.

Gallatin, Beaverhead and Madison counties in Montana are the top three counties at risk, according to the farmland trust. Wyoming's Sublette, Park, Uinta, Fremont and Big Horn counties are all in the top 25. In Wyoming's Teton County, traditional ranching operations were largely squeezed out years ago.

But nowhere in the state has development and loss of open space been more acute in recent years than in scenic Star Valley, just south of Teton County in Lincoln County along the Idaho/Wyoming border.

Losing ground

Star Valley, a high-elevation valley first colonized by Mormon settlers more than a century ago, covers 500 square miles and 10 postal codes. Fathers have been passing ranches to sons here for decades, but these days hardly anybody has more than 80 acres of contiguous ranchland -- and many people are ranching only part time.

Historically, there were as many as 200 full-time dairy farm operators in Star Valley, but now there's only about a half-dozen left. The dairy farm decline was capped last year with the closing of Thayne's landmark Star Valley Cheese Factory after 50-plus years of operation.

Longtime Star Valley ranchers know it's tough to get a good return on a 60-day growing season. They can, however, realize a pretty good retirement if they sell to developers.

As a result, Star Valley's population has risen from approximately 8,000 residents a decade ago to just over 11,000 residents. Lincoln County figures show about 200 new homes are built every year in the valley, and over 1,500 new homes went in during the last decade alone.

Alpine, a small mountain community in northern Lincoln County, leads the state in population growth. The town has added one-third to its population since 2000, nearly 800 residents.

Add to that a booming population over the last decade, and the result is a Star Valley that has shifted from an agricultural economy to one based on home construction, minerals and the energy industries.

Lincoln County Planning Director John Woodward said development is largely being spurred by second-home construction and the huge increase in workers commuting to Jackson from small Star Valley communities including Alpine, Etna, Freedom and Thayne.

"In the last five years, we've been permitting 200 new homes a year," he said. "The prices are very strong. In fact, the empty lots this year increased by over 30 percent in price and probably about 300 percent in the last three years."

Saving open space

Woodward said county officials have been working to not use up the open vistas of the valley quite so fast.

A new county growth plan attempts to allow the sustainable development of land while encouraging higher-density developments and affordable housing developments within existing communities and towns.

Before 2005, the average subdivision lot in the valley was five acres. Woodward said the county began giving incentives last year to developers to get one-acre or half-acre lots in Star Valley communities with water systems. "We wanted to discourage development in those rural places," he said.

As a result, the average size of most new lots being permitted is 1.1 acre.

"We're reducing the rate of land consumption by 80 percent ... and increasing the number of lots out there," Woodward said.

Most of the new home growth is occurring in the recently incorporated town of Star Valley Ranch, a sprawling development of new homes and golf courses constructed on rolling hills where dairy cows once grazed.

Woodward said there are 2,000 lots in Star Valley Ranch and about 45 percent, or some 900 new homes, have already been constructed. The county estimates another 1,000 homes or more will be built in the community over the next few years as the town develops water infrastructure.

Woodward said the county is also trying to address the need for apartment and townhouse units, particularly around rapidly growing Alpine. Increasingly, Jackson residents who cannot afford the sky-high real estate prices are migrating to Alpine and the surrounding area in search of more affordable housing.

Alpine officials are working on water and sewer expansions and have begun the annexation process for several projects. Those include the Alpine Meadows subdivision -- with 156 single-family homes built on four-tenths-of-an-acre lots -- and a nearby condominium development that will have 198 townhouse-style homes.

Watching from heaven

Bagley said for him to make a go of ranching in Star Valley, he would have to buy more cattle and more land to expand his operation. But land prices make that option untenable at this point.

"We're not big enough to be economically viable," he said. "It will never pay for itself with agriculture."

The family has considered charging for access to the ranch, or converting to a bed-and-breakfast operation. "But I like the business. I like what I do," he said.

What some Wyoming ranchers have been doing to help preserve open spaces -- mainly through the work of state nonprofit organizations -- is to set aside land in conservation easements.

With such an easement -- basically, a purchase or donation of development rights -- a landowner can assure that a portion or all of his ranch remains as open space. Or a conservation buyer may purchase a large parcel and preserve some of the acreage for open space. Planning and zoning laws also play a role in preserving open space, where communities can identify where they would like to see development and concentrate it there.

Bagley said a conservation easement is not a good answer for his operation, which rarely earns enough income to offset the tax benefits of a donation. And Bagley looks a bit sideways at planning and zoning efforts.

"If you're young enough, and have enough money, you can wait it out," he said.

Bagley's father consolidated the ranch with his father, who was ready to sell the ranch 50 years ago, Bagley said.

"I can hear him up in heaven telling me to go for it," he said.

Bagley talked with his father before his death about selling the ranch; his father approved. But his mother still lives in the house where she raised her children, and she wants to stay. Any sale of the Bagley Ranch will include a provision to allow her to do so.

Environmental reporter Whitney Royster can be reached at 307-734-0260 or at [email protected].

Southwest Wyoming bureau reporter Jeff Gearino can be reached at 307-875-5359 or at [email protected].
 
I am putting 2 and 2 together here jody, and hope I am not wrong.

If not, then I say go for it. It would be a big change, but I know you would adjust. I have been north of Lusk, and there are some great areas there too. It looks like a good opportunity to make a good living.

Good luck either way.
 
All of you folks that Ranch where urban sprawl has'nt reached would be wise to expand now if you can.

Our land in this area was $200 an acre about 12 years ago now it's $1300 and up cash for most of it the $1300 is low meadow higher ground is near $2000 or more those places where land is still reasonable are going to get expanded on.I have an 80 acre place on the highway that would be no problem selling for $2200 an acre one old tin building but a nice building site or 2 on it I paid $500 an acre about 7 years ago if I split it into small pieces it would be more an old gal about 5 miles north of me split a 40 into 4,10 acre parcels they sold for $5000 an acre. Land is'nt priced on what it will produce here it's priced for recreation value.Land that is priced for production is getting pretty scarce,None around here.A farmer here had bought a section about 6 years ago for $750 an acre he just sold it for $3300 an acre cash.If anyone has resonable land near them they may want to buy it now as we get pushed out of these area's to keep ranching we will be coming to a town near you.

I am buying 50 acres right now it is $1440 an acre but should put up 3 to 400 bales of hay per year with a little improvement.I have a few pieces that baring any big problems I should have leased for years so I will stay put and buy little pieces as I can.I will never have a wide open spaces type ranch,but I am glad with the opportunities I do have life is good.
 
jodywy,like Tap I'm making an assumption.Wow,tough choice,I know greg and I are going through something simular,when it comes time to deciede whether its the right choice to keep the family land or not.You got the Ok from dad,that sure helps...good luck on whatever your decision is :)
 
Land in the 40's and 50's around here was $100 or less per acre. It's right around $5000 per acre now. It'll always be worth more next year . You could sure ranch bigger somewhere else and put some money in the bank though. Good luck either way.
 
Denny, do you really think people will leave their homes, extended
families, and where they are established to start over somewhere?
The kids aren't gonna be happy, the wife probably isn't gonna be
happy and the parents aren't gonna be happy. It's harder than one
thinks to totally up and move.

We did it. And I know others that have, but it isn't easy.
I would say it depends totally on how bad one want to keep ranching.
Age has a lot to do with how easily one adapts too. And
having kids in school does help.

I wish anyone who does move, the very best of luck.
But don't think it is going to be easy. We moved twice and the
last move was the hardest on me. Each time we moved
500 miles, first northwest, then east. We were around 30 years
old the first move, and 50 the second. I would say the first move
was hardest on Mr. FH. When we decided to come over here,
a friend of ours who had moved a few times herself, told me
very seriously, "If you and Mr. FH didn't have such a good relationship,
I would tell you not to go. But since you do, you'll be alright."

She was sooooo right. There is so many times you do need
support from your partner. We couldn't have made it if not
for that.
 
Oh... I think people will move if they have too... I look at my folks and how much thy moved from the time they got married till now and it was all over the map, literly... Farmers and ag people tend to be a bit different as they are tied to their land but maybe in a way that sector is "catching up" with the rest of the work force in that sometimes you have to move for the best oportunity.. It would be a tough decision to make but some will make the decision to pack up and move and others won't.. Just like I had friends who moved from Chicago to Califronia when they were 16 because Dad got a a better job while outhers had Dad take a less propsperous job to stay in the area..

It would be hard to leave a plot that had been in your family since 1880 or something like that...This are has a lot of folks in it now that weren't around 10 years ago... Most are farmers that sold out around Chicago and wanted to keep farming so they moved west. When you have farms selling for 50k-100k an acre in a speculation market.. Hard to say no but also hard to give up who you are.
 
Faster horses said:
Denny, do you really think people will leave their homes, extended
families, and where they are established to start over somewhere?
The kids aren't gonna be happy, the wife probably isn't gonna be
happy and the parents aren't gonna be happy. It's harder than one
thinks to totally up and move.

We did it. And I know others that have, but it isn't easy.
I would say it depends totally on how bad one want to keep ranching.
Age has a lot to do with how easily one adapts too. And
having kids in school does help.

I wish anyone who does move, the very best of luck.
But don't think it is going to be easy. We moved twice and the
last move was the hardest on me. Each time we moved
500 miles, first northwest, then east. We were around 30 years
old the first move, and 50 the second. I would say the first move
was hardest on Mr. FH. When we decided to come over here,
a friend of ours who had moved a few times herself, told me
very seriously, "If you and Mr. FH didn't have such a good relationship,
I would tell you not to go. But since you do, you'll be alright."

She was sooooo right. There is so many times you do need
support from your partner. We couldn't have made it if not
for that.

I think if they really want to ranch they will move, but at todays prices cheap ranches are few and far between.As far as the parents being happy I used to think that was a big deal but my inlaws retired last year and left for Alabama for 6 months which they are about to do now they don't see the grandkids any more when they are here in the summer"WAY TO BUSY" my parent's live a 1/4 mile away and maybe come over 6 times a year and Most of those are birthday parties.The only reason we don't move is we have "His,Her's and our's kid's" so the other parent's would be shorted but they are all about gone so maybe I will be moving on in a few years never know.I know it would be tough but all change is.
 
Good luck Jody. Having grown up in the Boise Valley I know what you're going through and how you feel. However my dad made the decision, and did the selling :? Which was fine with me. I'm an only child, and he and my mom helped us out quite abit. I hate seeing my aunt, who still lives over there, being surrounded with houses. My uncle put their place in a development plan (guess that's what it's called) where the developers buy a certain amount of ground each year. As of this coming Jan. she will be left with 7 acres :cry: She and my cousin have 5 cows and two horses. Quite a change from the 400prs my dad and uncle used to run! Anyway, do what you have to, and keep us posted.
 
We pretty much have the same thing going on down here, too. Between the FS cutting grazing allotments, or abolishing them all together, the wolves, bears and cougars doing their part to predate the herds, there just aren't a lot of options for ranchers around here.

Add to that, the fact that an acre of mountainside (rough, steep, and without any utilities) is now going for upwards of $35,000.............

It's a hard decision to make, really.

Good luck, whatever ya do. ((((((((((( hugs )))))))))))
 
Not long after my Granddad and Dad had put these 4 homesteads together ther were ready to sell and buy the keyhole ranch. But my grandmother refused to sign another mortgage.
Phone rang all day today, dirt pimps wanting to list , told them I would pay half a commission if they brought a buyer.
Brothers have carved off a small property, trust will have to build a house for one of them, my oldest son will probably stay with one of them. Mom will get a life estate( wrong term according to the tax man) for her home .
But nothing happening till the checks cashed and the money is in the trust account.
 
Been there and done that. All the way around. One thing is certain, moving from an area that is no longer valued anywhere near it's production value to an area that is much more realistic in value can be a real good deal. One of the best benefits is that a person no longer has to groan over the price of the neighbor's place that just sold. Also, ranching next to people that are full-time ranchers that have no outside money subsidizing the deal can be much more fun. It's crappy to watch all of the money-men move in and just hold your ground because it's the right thing to do. No fun.

Just my opinion. My family has sure been through it. Nice thing about ranchers and others in ag, it's real easy to make friends and find kindred spirits. :wink:
 
I think the country side and ag folks are changing a bit on the being neighborly thing... A lot of grudges and feuds seem to be festering around here with folks fighting over who rents what ground and what prices the proprties are bringing to those selling out. It was disappointing to move into an area and find out about all of these feuds.. In the mre urban areas some of these problems would be brushed aside as a business is business type deal but no around here...

Hae learned to take everything eveyone says with a grain of salt as each person has their prejudices... AFter all, I even get to hear a few of the rumours and stories about me.. Always interesting to find out what sort of trouble I am causing and what I am geting ready to do... I think so much of this has to do with the absintee land owner and the high rent prices coupled with weak crop prices (Except this year, corn is oing bonkers this year)
 
as a resident of the mentioned Madison County and an unfortunate visitor to Gallatin County, I can only speak from what I have witnessed!! i am sure ILRancher can attest to what has happened to Bozeman/Gallatin County and to my own home county!!! Beautiful, black, fertile ground that was some of the richest farm land 12 years ago has been blacktopped and made into subdivisions and condos!! Many family ranches around here are going the way of so many others....selling out to high paying developers! Many families simply cannot afford to pay the property taxes since the price of land has risen so sharply and so suddenly!! How very, very sad!! :cry:
 
IL Rancher, your points may be magnified by your IL location, but the issue reaches across most every region.

My buddy on the edge of the Sandhills has a neighbor across the fence that's an absenteee owner, as of last year. This gentleman is from Arkansas and my friend has never seen him. This real sandy ground is being farmed to sunflowers and soybeans in an organic fashion. Serious pigweed growing on those pivots. Regardless, I'm sure this has been a big topic of conversation and some laughter. Where did this guy come from and why did he choose this poor farm ground in the middle of nowhere NE? Too much money.

The front page of the Rapid City (Journal?) yesterday was news about Cabelala's Trophy Properties and the "opportunity" that exists for many ranchers to cash in on the recreational property market. I didn't read it in detail but skimmed it at the gas station. Looked like serious fuel for the fire regarding this topic.

Ranchwife, I hear you loud and clear. I was in Bozeman three months ago and felt like a Lepper; had my hat on!!

I'm torn up by the fact that so much land has appreciated by such a high percentage in the past few years. Heck, even one year's figures are staggering. This, in the worst year of drought that many have seen. I ask myself everyday how a young person such as myself could possibly be encouraged to pursue agriculture. That's my own lament that I'm sure folks are tired of hearing. :wink: Don't run me off of this board, I beg you!
 
Well, when I showed up in Bozeman the development had already started but by the time I left it was mind boggling... My dad showed me pictures of it when he visited in the 70's, different place all together...There were aspects of Bozeman that I thought were great but it was starting to get crowded and I hated seeing that ground get paved over and turned into houses or worse, strip malls. Makes me sad just thinking about it..

I imagine that valley was just pefect in back in the day for farming and cattle. The soil there rivals the soil here, our main advantage is the moisture and longer growing season... I LOVED The Madison river valley and spent a bit of time driving around up there, (I might have been one of those crazy, idiot tourists that you complain about :wink: but I can guarentee I never gave ya the Californian salute... Might have waved and smiled but that is just me, I wave at everyone).

The biggest problem I have with all of the boom towns out west is that people move there to escape their problems but they bring them all with them. Enjoy what the area has to offer but don't change the area, change yourself.. Wish I was still out west sometimes... Often.. It truely did feel like home to me. I need to head out there sometime soon and just breath that crisp cold air again... Makes one feel alive.
 
IL Rancher, once again you got it right. Stepping out on the back porch to do, well, whatever, and hearing nothing but coyotes yipping while watching your breath fog up in the crisp moonlight is worth a million. Wish that value could be changed into payweight. :lol:
 
High Plains is right when he talks about moving next to others who
are making their living in agriculture. They tend to neighbor like has
been done for many years. You feel like you are on the same level
as they are and you can understand where the other is coming from.
Sure beats living around big money people who buy up land just
cuz they can.
 
Shortgrass said:
What do you want to do? You can either fight the bees, or collect the honey.

It like staving to death on a gold mine, I love the valley but it is not the same valley I grew up in now. A sharp pencil show too there is better opportunities to stay in Ag elswhere.Just a change in administration could be a fatal blow with changes that could happen on public land grazing.
Just the new culture clash here, people not wanting to fence out, not wanting cattle on the forest. Leaving gates and cut fence every time they go back on their 4 wheeler fore a picnic. Hunting camps used to be stock trucks and wall tents now they are trailer houses and 4 wheelers. It has made it easier to get and trail cattle as they have made more trails for 4 wheelers then there ever was for horses.
To increase production on 120 acres here in the valley you only have to spit it into 40s, and AU will triple.... what I call horse ghettos, wonder how some can have a house a barn and 5 horses on 5 acres.
 

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