• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Spin - Spin Remain calm! - ALL IS WELL!

Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
16
Location
nowhere
This is the latest spin from R-CALF on the organization going down - read it then march over to www.swifthorses.com I got this link last night. It give the timeline of the current distruction.

I am VERY disapointed in Leo - Peronal reasons? Come out and say it Leo. The guards are gone and the inmates are running the insane ward.


Leaders Field Questions, Address Concerns at Regional Meeting

RAPID CITY, S.D. (February 28, 2007) More than 300 cattle producers from South Dakota and surrounding states gathered here Friday to ask R-CALF USA representatives questions about the recent change in leadership and to seek clarification about the organization's goals and future direction.

On Feb. 8, by a majority vote, the R-CALF USA board of directors asked Missouri veterinarian Max Thornsberry, R-CALF USA's vice president at the time, to succeed Region V Director Chuck Kiker as president of the organization. Thornsberry will continue to serve in his capacity as R-CALF USA Region VI Director and continue to chair the R-CALF USA Animal Health Committee.

R-CALF USA Co-Founder and Past President Leo McDonnell said he resigned his directorship for personal reasons. McDonnell also sent Thornsberry a cordial letter outlining his desire to return full time to his businesses.

"I resigned from the Board for personal reasons," McDonnell told the crowd. "I did not resign my R-CALF membership. I continue to believe in this organization to accomplish R-CALF's policy and goals. I encourage each of you to do the same.

"This last year I've heard people talking about sides in R-CALF – there is no 'us-and-them,' only 'we,'" McDonnell emphasized. "That's what R-CALF has always been about – building a united voice. The bickering and name calling and petty stuff must stop now, and it must stop here.

"There is unity in the Board now, so we need to let the Board go forward and lead R-CALF to the next level," he continued. "We all want the same thing, we just go about it differently. It is one thing to have passion, and we all care. We all have a passion for this organization, but it is entirely inappropriate to level personal attacks against each other. Just because you think you're right, doesn't mean you're doing the right thing. Every decision made should be based on what is good for the U.S. rancher."

R-CALF USA Co-Founder and Past Region III Director Herman Schumacher said he thought the meeting went very well.

"Regardless of how they felt about the changes, everybody was there because they care about the R-CALF organization, and they want us to go on and be the voice that they're so longing for that they haven't had for many, many years," Schumacher said. "A few got to vent their frustrations. It was a very open meeting. I felt that most people I visited with came out of there with a very positive attitude."

Current R-CALF USA Region III Director Johnny Smith also said he thought the meeting went great.

"I thought everybody got to see what our new president looks like, and that Max Thornsberry handled himself very appropriately," Smith said. "He talked to all the questions that were handed to him. He did a whale of job, and I'll tell you what, being an R-CALF board member I'm proud to ride the trail with Max Thornsberry.

"The cattle industry is in good hands today because people like Max Thornsberry and the people at that meeting went away with the feeling that we are going at things that will benefit the producer," he continued. "We're back on track to work against bringing these cows in from Canada to keep them from deflating our cattle market and to keep the beef safety in accord, too. I don't think we should shun that in any, shape or form because USDA keeps saying this is 'sound science.' How could it be sound science when you've got mad cows up there all the time?

"I think Max Thornsberry put it very plainly that R-CALF is going to continue trying to keep the older Canadian cattle from coming in and also trying to close this thing to cattle from Canada," Smith concluded. "Also to continue working on country-of-origin labeling and trying to get that implemented, plus killing the mandatory animal ID thing. One thing about it, the folks that belong to R-CALF should darn sure be proud of Max Thornsberry, and for the producer, here's a new president that's darn sure had to go forward and work hard for the benefit of the producer, not for the benefit of the USDA, the NCBA or the packers. We're going forward, onward and upward."

R-CALF USA Region II Director Randy Stevenson said, "After hearing Dr. Max Thornsberry's presentation it should be clear to R-CALF USA's members that we will move forward using the collective wisdom of the whole board to carry out the policies set by the vote of our membership."

"Although the discussion was heated at times, for the most part people went away satisfied that their questions were answered and their fears laid to rest," said Kenny Fox, a longtime member of both R-CALF USA and the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association (SDSGA). "The vast majority of folks in attendance believe it is time to move forward and are in support of our new president, Dr. Max Thornsberry. I am pleased that President Thornsberry and the board of directors emphasized they will aggressively pursue the policies of R-CALF-USA that are set forth by the membership."

Thornsberry said the meeting – which lasted more than five hours – was not without controversy, but he felt the air was cleared and that participants are comfortable that R-CALF USA will continue its responsibilities as the only national organization dedicated to representing exclusively the interests of independent U.S. cattle producers.

A second regional meeting is slated for March 9 in Reno, Nev., with the location to be announced soon. The third event in the series is tentatively scheduled for March 24 in Kansas City, Mo., while Nashville is the potential site for a meeting possibly on April 7. More details will be forthcoming as soon as they are available.

On a separate, but equally important note, the SDSGA board of directors recently unanimously voted to renew its affiliation with R-CALF USA.

"We've experienced great successes in the cattle industry since R-CALF was first created," said SDSGA President Rick Fox. "We look forward to continued success as we work together to achieve fair trade policies and to prevent the United States from becoming a 'dumping ground' for the world's poorest beef."
 
What's the matter, nowhere, not enough blood and sharks in the water? You wanted R-CALF to implode and it's just not happening? Guess you're in for a big disappointment.
 
R-CALF is doing what should be done here, getting this out before the members. Let them have their say and move forward. There will be other regional meetings on this so it is all out in the open.

R-CALF is not dead guys, we are not going away, although I am sure a lot of you thought so.
 
Thanks nowhereroad1972 for posting that.

It seems to me that at least part of the R-Choir was trying to say that Leo didn't resign from the board but of course once again it looks like that was just another of many lies.
 
Bill said:
Thanks nowhereroad1972 for posting that.

It seems to me that at least part of the R-Choir was trying to say that Leo didn't resign from the board but of course once again it looks like that was just another of many lies.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:roll:
 
So it's back to business. Stopping Canadian cattle. Yada Yada Yada. Whatever. It's what we've come to expect. :roll: :roll:

On another note. Stopping mandatory ID seems to be a big deal too. I don't recall ever hearing what the reason behind it is. Maybe someone somewhere has posted that, but I'd really like to know what the reasoning behind it is. This is not a question intended to start a fight. I'd just like to know.

Why? Have they never thought of the consequences of not having a system in place? What about FMD? What about TB? BSE is not the only problem in the international cattle world.

Please explain the reasoning.....
 
Kato said:
So it's back to business. Stopping Canadian cattle. Yada Yada Yada. Whatever. It's what we've come to expect. :roll: :roll:

On another note. Stopping mandatory ID seems to be a big deal too. I don't recall ever hearing what the reason behind it is. Maybe someone somewhere has posted that, but I'd really like to know what the reasoning behind it is. This is not a question intended to start a fight. I'd just like to know.

Why? Have they never thought of the consequences of not having a system in place? What about FMD? What about TB? BSE is not the only problem in the international cattle world.

Please explain the reasoning.....

Three parts; Nobody has been able to tell us who would run the ID system, how it would be ran, what it would consist of, what the cost would be, etc... The ID people are asking us to what amounts to signing a blank check.

Some states can already track animals. It makes no sense for them to have to go thru the time and expense of revamping their system.

A tracking system would would be like farting in a thunderstorm on FMD.
 
Having seen the Washington, Texas and especially Alabama gong shows and then combined with the Van Dyke situation that you held so proudly as another clusterpuck, could you tell us the states that have a working tracking system that will cover the movement between states that don't have a system that works?

Some states can already track animals. It makes no sense for them to have to go thru the time and expense of revamping their system.


That makes as much sense as saying some cars have brakes that work so you don't need any checks to make sure they all do so long as they don't hit anything when they are in your state.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
 
I am very tired of the folks putting lipstick on this pig and expecting us to take her to the dance.

Read through www.swifthorses.com - it lays out the whole melt down starting years back.

R-CALF has driven away from its original purpose, and Bullard is the one behind the wheel.
 
Well lookie lookie! This one interesting site and should be compulsory reading especially for all you R-Klowns so for once you can get your stories straight!

http://www.swifthorses.com/index.html
J
anuary 1-18 2007

January 7, 2007. R-CALF CEO Bill Bullard sends letter to USDA
Exhibit A1

January 8. R-CALF President Chuck Kiker sends letter to USDA
Exhibit A2

January 11. Director Randy Stevenson makes a motion on a Board conference call "to consider Chuck Kiker's resignation as President of the Board of Directors." (Note: Chuck Kiker had not resigned.) The motion was tabled for 14 days as required by the by-laws.

January 17. The Board mails a letter to its membership asking for funding support for R-CALF's positions on USDA's "Over-30-Month Rule"
Exhibit No. H7
Note: The letter to and subsequent contact with the membership do not offer any information from R-CALF's legal counsel as to the probability of winning or losing the present case or potential future litigation against USDA—information that's key to ranchers when deciding whether or not to invest in the organization's legal fund.

January 17. The R-CALF 2007 convention begins in Denver. The Affiliates' Council meets at 5:30 p.m. At the conclusion of regular business, Joel Franz, a member from Colorado, attempts to discuss the two letters to USDA
Exhibit A1
Exhibit A2
The Affiliates' Council votes to end the discussion immediately because Joel Franz has information others do not—he publicly declares his source of the information "privileged." Throughout the duration of the convention, there are rumors that Chuck Kiker will be removed as R-CALF President, misinformation regarding the two letters to USDA is circulated by individuals who had been privy to the actions of the Board, and information discussed in Executive Sessions of the Board is leaked.
January 17. USDA's Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns writes a letter
Exhibit H2
in response to R-CALF President Chuck Kiker's January 8th letter
Exhibit A2

January 18. CEO Bill Bullard presents his report to the membership during the 2007 R-CALF convention and discloses a set of financial statements showing that, as of December 31, 2006, the organization had $276,513.87 in net assets.
Note: Because this figure has been derived using a cash basis method of accounting and not by using the generally accepted accounting practice of accrual accounting, the statements conveniently fail to disclose the organization's total liabilities; nor do the statements accurately reflect prepaid membership dues.

Finally we get the real goods on what REALLY happened at the convention and for the past months. ocm you must have either spent too much time in the lounge or were intentionally kept in the dark. Either way there were many of us not there who seem to know more of what actually happened than yourself.

Why is that?
 
Bill said:
Well lookie lookie! This one interesting site and should be compulsory reading especially for all you R-Klowns so for once you can get your stories straight!

http://www.swifthorses.com/index.html
J
anuary 1-18 2007

January 7, 2007. R-CALF CEO Bill Bullard sends letter to USDA
Exhibit A1

January 8. R-CALF President Chuck Kiker sends letter to USDA
Exhibit A2

January 11. Director Randy Stevenson makes a motion on a Board conference call "to consider Chuck Kiker's resignation as President of the Board of Directors." (Note: Chuck Kiker had not resigned.) The motion was tabled for 14 days as required by the by-laws.

January 17. The Board mails a letter to its membership asking for funding support for R-CALF's positions on USDA's "Over-30-Month Rule"
Exhibit No. H7
Note: The letter to and subsequent contact with the membership do not offer any information from R-CALF's legal counsel as to the probability of winning or losing the present case or potential future litigation against USDA—information that's key to ranchers when deciding whether or not to invest in the organization's legal fund.

January 17. The R-CALF 2007 convention begins in Denver. The Affiliates' Council meets at 5:30 p.m. At the conclusion of regular business, Joel Franz, a member from Colorado, attempts to discuss the two letters to USDA
Exhibit A1
Exhibit A2
The Affiliates' Council votes to end the discussion immediately because Joel Franz has information others do not—he publicly declares his source of the information "privileged." Throughout the duration of the convention, there are rumors that Chuck Kiker will be removed as R-CALF President, misinformation regarding the two letters to USDA is circulated by individuals who had been privy to the actions of the Board, and information discussed in Executive Sessions of the Board is leaked.
January 17. USDA's Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns writes a letter
Exhibit H2
in response to R-CALF President Chuck Kiker's January 8th letter
Exhibit A2

January 18. CEO Bill Bullard presents his report to the membership during the 2007 R-CALF convention and discloses a set of financial statements showing that, as of December 31, 2006, the organization had $276,513.87 in net assets.
Note: Because this figure has been derived using a cash basis method of accounting and not by using the generally accepted accounting practice of accrual accounting, the statements conveniently fail to disclose the organization's total liabilities; nor do the statements accurately reflect prepaid membership dues.

Finally we get the real goods on what REALLY happened at the convention and for the past months. ocm you must have either spent too much time in the lounge or were intentionally kept in the dark. Either way there were many of us not there who seem to know more of what actually happened than yourself.

Why is that?

Bill, what is the controversy? Is it the letters and disagreements over them? So what, who cares? At least it shows it is an organization that has board oversight, however messy that might be.

I want to know what the controversy is. Please tell.

As far as the accrual vs cash accounting, who cares? Both are used and both have their place. It is true that accrual accounting can give a more accurate reflection of outstanding obligations but that is known when the accounting method is stated as cash basis. Have you ever had any experience with financial information?

I might add, that the budget deficit that the nation and pres. bush claims is based on a cash basis. The accrual looks a lot worse.

This is by no means a scandal, unless you feel your ignorance over these issues has put you at some disadvantage. It can be remedied with a few questions and a little more education.


I am beginning to wonder if you guys can come up with anything substantial or if you want to just play the gossip game because you have nothing else.

Do you have a copy of those letters sent to Johanns?
 
Econ101 said:
Bill said:
Well lookie lookie! This one interesting site and should be compulsory reading especially for all you R-Klowns so for once you can get your stories straight!

http://www.swifthorses.com/index.html
J
anuary 1-18 2007

January 7, 2007. R-CALF CEO Bill Bullard sends letter to USDA
Exhibit A1

January 8. R-CALF President Chuck Kiker sends letter to USDA
Exhibit A2

January 11. Director Randy Stevenson makes a motion on a Board conference call "to consider Chuck Kiker's resignation as President of the Board of Directors." (Note: Chuck Kiker had not resigned.) The motion was tabled for 14 days as required by the by-laws.

January 17. The Board mails a letter to its membership asking for funding support for R-CALF's positions on USDA's "Over-30-Month Rule"
Exhibit No. H7
Note: The letter to and subsequent contact with the membership do not offer any information from R-CALF's legal counsel as to the probability of winning or losing the present case or potential future litigation against USDA—information that's key to ranchers when deciding whether or not to invest in the organization's legal fund.

January 17. The R-CALF 2007 convention begins in Denver. The Affiliates' Council meets at 5:30 p.m. At the conclusion of regular business, Joel Franz, a member from Colorado, attempts to discuss the two letters to USDA
Exhibit A1
Exhibit A2
The Affiliates' Council votes to end the discussion immediately because Joel Franz has information others do not—he publicly declares his source of the information "privileged." Throughout the duration of the convention, there are rumors that Chuck Kiker will be removed as R-CALF President, misinformation regarding the two letters to USDA is circulated by individuals who had been privy to the actions of the Board, and information discussed in Executive Sessions of the Board is leaked.
January 17. USDA's Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns writes a letter
Exhibit H2
in response to R-CALF President Chuck Kiker's January 8th letter
Exhibit A2

January 18. CEO Bill Bullard presents his report to the membership during the 2007 R-CALF convention and discloses a set of financial statements showing that, as of December 31, 2006, the organization had $276,513.87 in net assets.
Note: Because this figure has been derived using a cash basis method of accounting and not by using the generally accepted accounting practice of accrual accounting, the statements conveniently fail to disclose the organization's total liabilities; nor do the statements accurately reflect prepaid membership dues.

Finally we get the real goods on what REALLY happened at the convention and for the past months. ocm you must have either spent too much time in the lounge or were intentionally kept in the dark. Either way there were many of us not there who seem to know more of what actually happened than yourself.

Why is that?

Bill, what is the controversy? Is it the letters and disagreements over them? So what, who cares? At least it shows it is an organization that has board oversight, however messy that might be.

I want to know what the controversy is. Please tell.

As far as the accrual vs cash accounting, who cares? Both are used and both have their place. It is true that accrual accounting can give a more accurate reflection of outstanding obligations but that is known when the accounting method is stated as cash basis. Have you ever had any experience with financial information?

I might add, that the budget deficit that the nation and pres. bush claims is based on a cash basis. The accrual looks a lot worse.

This is by no means a scandal, unless you feel your ignorance over these issues has put you at some disadvantage. It can be remedied with a few questions and a little more education.


I am beginning to wonder if you guys can come up with anything substantial or if you want to just play the gossip game because you have nothing else.

Do you have a copy of those letters sent to Johanns?

Obviously you haven't taken the time to even go to the site and read it as usual. It's there if you look for it.

Whatsamatter econ? Can't you hear "the whisper"?
 
I looked but couldn't find them. I will look again. It looked like the site was under construction. I will look again.
 
Bill said:

Bill, I read both letters and some of the other time line. I really don't see anything wrong with either letter although I don't know the particular facts surrounding the he said she said stuff (that is Tam's goofy calling).

I read the report that was requested to help the organization meet its goals. The report, in my opinion, was very good.

ANYTIME an organization is started and budgets are tight, some of the officers have to wear many hats. There are a lot of times that these "hats" don't fit the personality. Staff has to be trained to meet expectations, and a good working relationship is paramount by those who are actually doing the leading in the day to day operations. Boards are meant to oversee the goals of the organization and possibly lend some support to the strategies and tactics, although the responsibility of the implementation relies on the office staff. Often the responsibilities out pace the abilities and training of the staff as Dr. Larsen pointed out.

I don't see anything wrong with the letters other than the fact that Kiker renounced the letter from Bullard. A better way to handle that situation is to allow both officers ask the questions relevant to them without denouncing the other. Policy goals should come from the board. Both letters contained the policy goal of rcalf (in the summation paragraph, I believe). They were essentially the same.

All the other stuff is what you might expect with an upstart organization with limited resources.

Does rcalf have a staff attorney? If not, the disagreement over the letter's implications could be overlooked. Letters to Johanns could have the added phrase of "the board has approved this letter" and maybe a disclaimer on the bottom in legal wording to not limit further actions by rcalf based on the correspondence.

Rcalf can come up with a policy guideline on this for the future. Policy guidelines should be used to handle future instances and not assert blame of past actions (always look ahead, not behind).

I really don't see anything other than growing pains, effects of limited resources, and the stress that cattlemen in the U.S. are under being exhibited in the actions of the directors and its officers.

I have been an executive director of a regional non profit organization before and know these problems with great familiarity. I don't think the kind of problems exemplified in the web site are uncommon. A common problem in beginning organizations is that a lot of people who are vested emotionally in the goals worry too much about the tactics. Boards develop goals and there is usually wide latitude to the administration as they are finding their way because of the many hats that have to be worn.

Bill, I have to ask you, where is the transparency with your organization or is rcalf way ahead of you on that one?

If you continue to follow what the packers want, you are bound to butt heads with rcalf. I wouldn't count on the decisions of the packers when most of these issues are political issues and rcalf has such huge support with members on goals. I would find the common ground with rcalf if I could. Your best market may depend on it.


I do give rcalf a huge A+ on transparency.

Again, Bill, where is your transparency? Your whisper?
 
Bill said:
Well lookie lookie! This one interesting site and should be compulsory reading especially for all you R-Klowns so for once you can get your stories straight!

http://www.swifthorses.com/index.html
J
anuary 1-18 2007

January 7, 2007. R-CALF CEO Bill Bullard sends letter to USDA
Exhibit A1

January 8. R-CALF President Chuck Kiker sends letter to USDA
Exhibit A2

January 11. Director Randy Stevenson makes a motion on a Board conference call "to consider Chuck Kiker's resignation as President of the Board of Directors." (Note: Chuck Kiker had not resigned.) The motion was tabled for 14 days as required by the by-laws.

January 17. The Board mails a letter to its membership asking for funding support for R-CALF's positions on USDA's "Over-30-Month Rule"
Exhibit No. H7
Note: The letter to and subsequent contact with the membership do not offer any information from R-CALF's legal counsel as to the probability of winning or losing the present case or potential future litigation against USDA—information that's key to ranchers when deciding whether or not to invest in the organization's legal fund.

January 17. The R-CALF 2007 convention begins in Denver. The Affiliates' Council meets at 5:30 p.m. At the conclusion of regular business, Joel Franz, a member from Colorado, attempts to discuss the two letters to USDA
Exhibit A1
Exhibit A2
The Affiliates' Council votes to end the discussion immediately because Joel Franz has information others do not—he publicly declares his source of the information "privileged." Throughout the duration of the convention, there are rumors that Chuck Kiker will be removed as R-CALF President, misinformation regarding the two letters to USDA is circulated by individuals who had been privy to the actions of the Board, and information discussed in Executive Sessions of the Board is leaked.
January 17. USDA's Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns writes a letter
Exhibit H2
in response to R-CALF President Chuck Kiker's January 8th letter
Exhibit A2

January 18. CEO Bill Bullard presents his report to the membership during the 2007 R-CALF convention and discloses a set of financial statements showing that, as of December 31, 2006, the organization had $276,513.87 in net assets.
Note: Because this figure has been derived using a cash basis method of accounting and not by using the generally accepted accounting practice of accrual accounting, the statements conveniently fail to disclose the organization's total liabilities; nor do the statements accurately reflect prepaid membership dues.

Finally we get the real goods on what REALLY happened at the convention and for the past months. ocm you must have either spent too much time in the lounge or were intentionally kept in the dark. Either way there were many of us not there who seem to know more of what actually happened than yourself.

Why is that?

I know for a fact that some of the information quoted here is incorrect. I also know that there are many omissions. So what value is it?
 
Maybe I missed it--Something I did not find posted openly on the site-- Who is swifthorses? Is this one person? Is it a group? Is it a disgruntled Kiker?

Is this another Dittmer type AFF that operates in secrecy? I have a hard time buying anything a person can't/won't put their name behind....
 
Oldtimer said:
Maybe I missed it--Something I did not find posted openly on the site-- Who is swifthorses? Is this one person? Is it a group? Is it a disgruntled Kiker?

Is this another Dittmer type AFF that operates in secrecy? I have a hard time buying anything a person can't/won't put their name behind....

How about R-Calf's financial statement Oldtimer? Ever seen one?
 
Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Maybe I missed it--Something I did not find posted openly on the site-- Who is swifthorses? Is this one person? Is it a group? Is it a disgruntled Kiker?

Is this another Dittmer type AFF that operates in secrecy? I have a hard time buying anything a person can't/won't put their name behind....

How about R-Calf's financial statement Oldtimer? Ever seen one?

Actually I did- but that was sometime ago....
 
Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Maybe I missed it--Something I did not find posted openly on the site-- Who is swifthorses? Is this one person? Is it a group? Is it a disgruntled Kiker?

Is this another Dittmer type AFF that operates in secrecy? I have a hard time buying anything a person can't/won't put their name behind....

How about R-Calf's financial statement Oldtimer? Ever seen one?

Bill, have you seen one from your cattleman's organization or do you just have a packer organization?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top