• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

SRM Removal

Help Support Ranchers.net:

Mike

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
28,480
Reaction score
0
Location
Montgomery, Al
I have thought long and hard concerning the removal of SRM's in cattle being the safeguard we need for food safety assurance.

I have one main reservation concerning the practice namely;

If prions multiply? accumulate? in various parts of the body, (brain, spinal cord, tonsils, etc.) how can there NOT be prions in the carrying medium from the gut (where it was ingested, if in fact it was ingested) and it's final destination? These prions have to be carried by blood, therefore polluting the entire system.
There is quite a bit of discussion about blood harboring prions. There is even a "filtering system" for cleaning blood of prions.
From what I understand these prions are minutely tiny and cannot be seen even with an electron microscope, thus the reason for the search for "voids or vacuoles" and "staining" using the IHC method, and are in actuality a "mis-shaped PROTEIN" which ARE without a doubt carried by blood throughout the system.
My final thought is; if they are in the blood, and they HAVE to be, they are everywhere - making SRM removal suspect for a complete safety system. How many prions does it take to infect? How many can the body safely refuse since there are no known immunities?
Bottom line - they don't go straight from the feed bunk to the brain.
Are we using SRM removal as a "Coverup"? Is SRM removal a "sham" too?
In some of the research on "KURU", the incubation period was up to 40 YEARS.
Just thinking out loud and wondering are the scientists like those that said the "World is NOT Round".
After all, a "Theory" is NEVER proven, the arguments just go away until it is accepted.
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
So they should be finding these prions in all tissues very readily, but they are not! Even in animals that test positive for BSE? :???: :???: :???:
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
Maybe Reader can answer this question. Are they finding CJD in muscle tissue of humans, or other organs besides the brain?
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
Sorry for posted so many thoughts in a row, but this one also just came to me. If persons with CJD are incapcitated, surely it would not be a problem to get a urine or blood sample, why are we not hearing of these proteins/prions showing up in their blood or urine.

You would think that a live test would be available, if possible, when you know what the person is inflicted with and they are still alive?
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
My children are banned forever from donating blood because they had a blood relative who died of classic CJD (well, iatrogenic - meaning derived from surgery).

Now I'm going to get a little personal. But if HIV can be passed through blood or fluid tranmission from one sexual partner to another, why are sexual partners ( of CJD victims) not discounted as blood donors, if it is contained in blood?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
28,480
Reaction score
0
Location
Montgomery, Al
Murgen said:
So they should be finding these prions in all tissues very readily, but they are not! Even in animals that test positive for BSE? :???: :???: :???:

Well, first of all you don't just cut a piece of meat open and find a prion laying there. They are the size of a protein! Very, very, small.
When they do an IHC test they are not looking for the protein but the void left by the prions. From what I understand.

The prions have to be there, just in small enough numbers to be "undetectable".
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
My children are banned forever from donating blood because they had a blood relative who died of classic CJD (well, iatrogenic - meaning derived from surgery).

But obviously they think there is something to do with genotype or chromosomes from one person transmitting susceptibilty, before the onset of the desease?
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
We are EXTREMELY lucky that these awful diseases seem not to be transmitted readily although farmers, neurosurgeons, pathologists, medical students, and possibly funeral home directors have unusual incidence of the disease, but they are in contact with brain matter.

That corresponds to everything I have read, you have to be in contact with the brain or parts of the nervous system, and have to be genotypically susceptible.

A huge stretch for consumers, don't you think, now that we remove these parts of the bovine animal and the low incidedence of the specified genotype at codon 129?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
28,480
Reaction score
0
Location
Montgomery, Al
Murgen said:
The prions have to be there, just in small enough numbers to be "undetectable".

So how do the new urine and blood tests work?

Don't know enough to say for sure. But they have to be looking for a marker of some sort. Not the actual prion itself. Antigen, antibody, etc.
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
Don't know enough to say for sure. But they have to be looking for a marker of some sort. Not the actual prion itself. Antigen, antibody, etc.

Or they have found a genetic marker unknowingly), which would make a DNA test for a single nucleotide polymorphism more reliable!

That work is continuing!
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
Of the victims with vCJD, the vast majority so far were of one genotype. One of the blood transfusion cases was not met/met.

This is NOT the case for classic CJD which has been found in all 3 genotypes (methione/methione; valine/valine; and met/val).

And as I said, corneal transplants have caused classic CJD so brain is clearly not the only "infectious" part

So for it being transmitting through eating beef, does it not make logical sense that you would have to be of a certain genotype? A genotype that is most likely very rare in humans! Eating a whole bunch of brain and nervous sytem, eyes included!

But for classic CJD, the route is more direct and not dependent on Genotype? Or whether the person ate beef!

Just wanted to clarify, thanks Reader!
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario
I hope you are correct that you have to be one genotype, very very young, and eat brains to get vCJD

Has any study so far proven this hypothesis incorrect?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
28,480
Reaction score
0
Location
Montgomery, Al
Murgen said:
I hope you are correct that you have to be one genotype, very very young, and eat brains to get vCJD

Has any study so far proven this hypothesis incorrect?

Problem; Can't find enough parents to let their kids participate. :roll:
 

Latest posts

Top