SRM's - Are they the only carrier of Prions??

[flounder]

mwj wrote ;

> I would think that every beef producing country in the world would be

> camped on your doorstep.



IF you only knew :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[flounder]

p.s.

mwj also wrote;

> You may have a lot of information but you do not have all the answers


amen, and i never said i did have all the answers either, just more than you and most had here and all i am trying to do is give it to you. dont shoot the messenger.

i sometimes have serious concerns with most OPist that they really dont believe that either, they just dont want to believe the truth, the science.

hope that's not true. ...

kind regards,
terry

 

[rkaiser]

The truth the science... :lol:

Terry the scientist. :lol:

Where's your buddy Terry. Counting his money. :lol:

You know, the biggest problem that our society faces is the money thing.

Whether BSE tester gives it away in the end or not, how on earth does a world work when one fellow can work for forty years and come up with a 7 figure net worth for finding a prion in a pot of pee, and another can work his ash off for forty years feeding the people of the world and not even have a pot to piss in. (And no Scotty that ain't this fellow.)

When he finds that prion in the pot of pee, he thinks he rules the world, but he can't answer the most simple question of why he beleives that his finding will save the society that created him.

Why has that prion that he found not been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to transmit from one cow to the next in a normal feeding situation?

Why has that prion that he found not been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to cause one single person to die from eating it?

Millions and possibly approaching billions of dollars have been spent trying to prove these points without success. While those who hope to cash in on the test (and our ultruist hero bsetester) which would ultimately still prove nothing, bark like they are the only people on the planet who make sense.

Talk about brains all you like Terry and Money bags. My IQ is likely equal to both of yours combined.

Don't you just love living in a free country boys. You can call me a brainless ignorant ash all you like and I can send it right back dispite your supposed connections and piles of cashola. :lol: :lol:

 

[rkaiser]

From Terry's post -

12. The aim of this research is to uncover the science of TSEs, in particular their nature and means of transmission; to develop countermeasures at many points in the food chain; to protect the health of the UK population; and to engage the public in the research and its application.

And to save the world from this plague brought on by eating cows. :lol:

Here here. clap clap oh wait maybe we have an emoticon for that -

Maybe once they start this research into the nature and means of transmission Terry, you could post the results for us.

 

[flounder]

rkaiser wrote;


> Why has that prion that he found not been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to transmit
> from one cow to the next in a normal feeding situation?


try explaining this to the 182,583 confirmed cases of UK BSE since 1987 who consumed all the tainted feed and contracted BSE. then maybe you can explain the drastic decline of BSE since the feed ban.


> Why has that prion that he found not been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to cause one
> single person to die from eating it?


THE TSE agent has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to cause death in both man and animal. This is proven science, proven fact. i cannot help if there rkaiser if your pea brain cannot understand this science. :lol: :lol: :lol:


THE BARBs are pretty much self explanatory (for most;-) as well with failed feed ban, old feed stored etc. we saw what can happen with some old beef, it can float around for 23 years, then be passed off as blue
beef;-)

your smoke screens are failing the smell test there rkaiser. :roll: :roll: :roll:


TSS

 

[rkaiser]

try explaining this to the 182,583 confirmed cases of UK BSE since 1987 who consumed all the tainted feed and contracted BSE. then maybe you can explain the drastic decline of BSE since the feed ban.

Come on Terry, that ain't science, and besides we've been ther a thousand times. You already know my answer. And no it is not completely OP's.

THE TSE agent has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to cause death in both man and animal. This is proven science, proven fact. i cannot help if there rkaiser if your pea brain cannot understand this science.

Did I ever say that misfolded prions cannot cause death pea brain? Do you comprehend the volumes of text that you post on this site the same as you comprehend mine? The shadow of doubt is on your transimssion and species leaping crap and the folks you just posted even admit that by saying that they need to examine it.

Quote:
12. The aim of this research is to uncover the science of TSEs, in particular their nature and means of transmission; to develop countermeasures at many points in the food chain; to protect the health of the UK population; and to engage the public in the research and its application.

THE BARBs are pretty much self explanatory (for most;-) as well with failed feed ban, old feed stored etc. we saw what can happen with some old beef, it can float around for 23 years, then be passed off as blue
beef;-)

your smoke screens are failing the smell test there rkaiser.


TSS

Go Terry go, prove that cow thing and break those ranchers once and for all. Or take another look at what you idol Prusiner has said himself about causes other than the transmission X fear factor syndrome.

Every cow found in North America may fall under the revised Prusiner claim, but Mr. Terry Flounder is on a mission. Destroy those pesky brain dead ranchers and eliminate their disease ridden cow herds.

What do your farts smell like when you eat those chemically grown soya burgers Terry?

 

[flounder]

R2 wrote;

Once we've eliminated it, THEN I'll talk "origin." Until then, who cares? I want to eliminate from cattle and from humans.

Your denial is not helping you or anyone else.

R2


----------------------------------

thank you........tss

 

[Jason]

I have to admit I don't read those posts of Flounder's that are 3 miles long. Let me know if this is close.

I think the reduction of BSE cases after a feed ban is proof enough that feeding misfolded prions in high enough concentration to the same species will trigger a TSE. (Britian with BSE and cannibals with Kuru)

CWD confuses me because where is the source of concentrated prions for them?

It also seems to be apperant this feeding has to occur at a young age in cattle at least.

Blood to blood transmission in species seems to be fact.

Cross species transmission through feed seems much harder, 150 cases of vcjd in Britian when thousands of cows had BSE, (Brits have a habit of eating much more SRM than we do) seems to confirm this.

Removal of SRM because of the concentration there of misfolded prions would seem to be the safest way to protect people from the small chance of contracting a TSE from beef.

I understand those that have lost family and crusade about BSE/TSE but in real world terms the risks are so low it is a non issue as long as measures in place are followed.

The benefits of beef for feeding people are higher than the risks of TSEs.

There's that nasty money thing again Randy, ranchers wanting to keep selling beef. :wink:

 

[Jason]

So in other words the worry from catching vCJD will kill you sooner than the actual condition.

I think there are far more concerns about toxic chemicals in the environment that people should avoid rather than worry about the small instance of BSE.

I support the testing Canada does, and the few cases that have turned up when testing the most likely cows shows it isn't a huge problem in Canada.

Testing young animals or removing cns material from young cattle that have never been shown to have significant amounts of misfolded prions is a waste of resources.

The 2 Japanese cases below 30 months were never allowed to be checked in England. That makes me wonder if they really were the same. I have talked with one doctor that says there are about 6 diseases that leave vacules in brain tissue that could be mistaken for BSE.

Saying the incubation period is 20-40 years in humans doesn't agree with cases that have appeared in Britian. Nor does it agree with saying younger cattle can have BSE. It can't be both ways.

 

[Econ101]

I have to admit I don't read those posts of Flounder's that are 3 miles long. Let me know if this is close.

I think the reduction of BSE cases after a feed ban is proof enough that feeding misfolded prions in high enough concentration to the same species will trigger a TSE. (Britian with BSE and cannibals with Kuru)

CWD confuses me because where is the source of concentrated prions for them?

It also seems to be apperant this feeding has to occur at a young age in cattle at least.

Blood to blood transmission in species seems to be fact.

Cross species transmission through feed seems much harder, 150 cases of vcjd in Britian when thousands of cows had BSE, (Brits have a habit of eating much more SRM than we do) seems to confirm this.

Removal of SRM because of the concentration there of misfolded prions would seem to be the safest way to protect people from the small chance of contracting a TSE from beef.

I understand those that have lost family and crusade about BSE/TSE but in real world terms the risks are so low it is a non issue as long as measures in place are followed.

The benefits of beef for feeding people are higher than the risks of TSEs.

There's that nasty money thing again Randy, ranchers wanting to keep selling beef. :wink:

Jason - you're about 80% correct. Here are the points where what you wrote may not be totally accurate.

-- It's too early to say that the species barrier worked. It appears that it did, thus only 150+ cases in UK, mostly young people. HOWEVER, the incubation for TSEs are 20 - 40 years and so far all the UK cases were the same genotype. People of other genotypes may have LONGER incubation periods. It is certain from some biopsies of tonsils and appendices that there are some asymptomatic carriers of the disease who may yet develop the disease. Until 20 - 30 years have passed, we will not know the full impact of the BSE epidemic on humans.

-- Removing SRMs is not enough for two reasons -- First, they do not remove the central nervous system of cows under 30 months, only the distal ileum, thus putting humans at risk from brain material of under 30 month cows. Second, as you indicate, these diseases are shown to transmit via blood and probably via other bodily fluids (this is how they believe that CWD is spreading among deer). Testing is absolutely necessary to eliminate BSE.

-- The different diseases in the family transmit differently and also, once a disease has crossed the species barrier it appears to transmit more readily. CWD appears to transmit horizontally from deer to deer possibly via saliva, feces, urine ...

-- Read a little of Flounder's recent posting. It explains why TSEs are worrisome, despite the small numbers. They are always fatal, long incubation, and can be transmitted in the blood suppy, via surgical instruments. This leads to silent amplification from just a few cases. I have been coming into contact with a number of cases of CJD that were caused by surgery. Just a teeny bit of contamination can transmit the disease. In the meantime, the person who was infected via surgery is donating blood and having surgery, thus possibly infecting others.

-- Yes, the numbers are small but all life is precious and as I have shown these diseases worry health researchers globally despite the small numbers.

-- I have always said that I believe that the chances of catching vCJD via beef in North America is small but NO ONE knows how small or large the chances are because we haven't done enough testing to understand the numbers and the trend.

Hey, what better way to solve the impending social security crisis. :roll: :roll:

 

[bse-tester]

The blood brain barrier is the barrier between the brain of some idiot who brags of paying $350,000.00 per validation out of HIS OWN POCKET to help mankind through this BSE issue, and the rest of mankind. Your turn money bags, how do misfolded prions cross the blood brain barrier, or for that matter pass from the gut of a cow to his/her blood muscle tissue, or the infamous SRM?

P.S. - Do cats Fart?.

Your reply only confirms the fact that you know nothing of what prion science is about, or any science for that matter. you are either spending time on your father's computer while he is out or you are granted time as part of your therapy. Get a life Randy - you are only making yourself lose more credibility with each stupid statement. I will not answer your pathetic insults and like Flounder says, it appears that I am wasting my time replying to you [/quote]

 

[bse-tester]

How does the food you eat and the oxygen your breathe get to nourish you and that great emptiness between your ears? Is it by some form of voodoo magic or simply having to bang your head against the plate once you lick it clean?? Answer the original question pal and show us your depth of knowledge??

 

[MsSage]

Prions may hold key to stem cell function
22:00 30 January 2006
NewScientist.com news service
Stu Hutson


The curative properties of stem cells may rely on prions, a new study suggests, the type of protein made infamous by mad cow disease.

Prions are a special class of protein that can change the shape and function of other proteins around them. While these are found throughout any mammal's body, the understanding of their biological role is limited. What is known is that prions that become misshapen, through some unknown process, can result in BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy) – mad cow disease – and its equivalents in other animals.

Researchers at the Whitehead Institute in Cambridge, Massachusetts, US, have now found that adult stem cells in bone marrow gradually lose their ability to regenerate without their normal complement of membrane-bound prions. Stem cells are primitive cells which have the potential to divide endlessly, and the ability to differentiate into any cell type in the body – offering hope for future therapies.

First answers
Andrew Steele, Cheng Cheng Zhang and colleagues used radiation to deplete the bone marrow of mice genetically engineered to not produce the prion proteins. The animals' marrow regenerated quickly at first, but eventually slowed to a stop. The marrow also lost its regenerative abilities when transplanted into normal mice.

"For years we've wondered why evolution has preserved this protein, what positive role it could possibly be playing," says Susan Lindquist, one of the team. "With these findings we have our first answer."

The question of how prions sustain stem cell activity remains unanswered, but the finding is a first step to understanding the destructive streak of misshapen prion proteins, Steele says. Similar tests on neural and lung stem cells are underway.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0510577103)

Thought yall would like to see this it is a first step...only now brings another issue back to stem cell.

 

[Anonymous]

Mad cow protein aids creation of brain cells
Few conditions are more detrimental to human brains than the one popularly referred to as mad cow disease. But now there's reason to suspect that the protein which, when malformed, causes bovine spongiform encephalopathy in cows and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in people, might also be necessary for healthy brain function. Researchers from Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research and Harvard Medical School/Massachusetts General Hospital have discovered that the normal form of this detrimental protein may actually help the brain create neurons, those electricity-conducting cells that make cognition possible.
"It's been difficult to understand why this prion protein, which when malformed subjects us to this horrible disease, is so abundant in our brains in the first place," says Whitehead Member Susan Lindquist, who is also a professor of biology at MIT. Along with Jeffrey Macklis of Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital, she is co-senior author on this Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences paper, scheduled to be published the week of February 13. "We've known for years what happens when this protein goes wrong. Now we're starting to see what its normal form does right."

For over ten years, researchers have known that a protein called PrP causes mad cow disease and its human equivalent, Creutzfeld-Jakob disease, when it forms incorrectly. PrP is a prion, a class of proteins that has the unusual ability to recruit other proteins to change their shape. (PrP is shorthand for "prion protein".) This is significant, because a protein's form determines its function. When a prion changes shape, or "misfolds," it creates a cascade where neighboring proteins all assume that particular conformation. In some organisms, such as yeast cells, this process can be harmless or even beneficial. But in mammals, it can lead to the fatal brain lesions that characterize diseases such as Creutzfeld-Jakob.

Curiously, however, PrP can be found throughout healthy human bodies, particularly in the brain. In fact, it's found in many mammalian species, and only on the rarest occasions does it misfold and cause disease. Clearly, scientists have reasoned, such a widely conserved protein also must play a beneficial role.

In 1993, scientists created a line of mice in which the gene that codes for PrP was knocked out, preventing the mice from expressing the prion in any tissues. Surprisingly, the mice showed no sign of any ill effect. The only difference between these mice and the control mice was that the knock-out animals were incapable of contracting prion-related neurodegenerative disease when infected. Researchers knew then that PrP was necessary for mad-cow type diseases; any other kind of normal function remained unknown.

Recently, researchers from the labs of Lindquist and Whitehead Member Harvey Lodish discovered that PrP helps preserve stem cells in the blood. Because of this, Lindquist teamed up with Macklis to see if there might also be a similar connection between PrP and cells in the brain, where the prion protein is far more abundant.

Andrew Steele, a graduate student from the Lindquist lab, teamed up with Jason Emsley and Hande Ozdinler, postdoctoral researchers in the Macklis lab, to investigate the effects PrP might have on neurogenesis. (Neurogenesis is the process by which the brain creates new neurons in the developing embryonic brain and, to a limited extent, even in the adult brain.) To do this they studied embryonic brain tissue from three kinds of mice: those in which the PrP gene was permanently disabled, or knocked out; those in which the gene was over-expressed, producing an unusually large amount of PrP; and normal control mice.

Steele and Emsley isolated neural precursor cells--early stage cells that give rise to mature neurons and so-called glial support cells. (These precursor cells are often referred to as neural stem cells, though they lack certain properties that are characteristic of broader stem cells.) After placing these embryonic precursor cells under culture conditions that enabled them to grow and differentiate, they noticed striking differences. Cells from the knock-out mouse remained in the precursor stage for a long time, compared to the control mice. But cells in which PrP was over-expressed began forming mature neurons almost immediately.

"The more PrP you have, the faster you become a neuron. The less you have, the longer you'll stay in a precursor state," says Steele.

In addition, the researchers discovered that in adult mouse brains, PrP is only expressed in neurons, but not in the glial cells, cells that form the brain's connective tissue. They also found that while the amount of PrP does affect the speed with which neurons were produced in the adult brain, ultimately the different mice ended up with the same number of neurons. In order to further investigate these findings, the researchers are currently placing these different groups of mice in stimulation-rich environments that will require the quick production of new neurons. The idea is to observe the mice and see if there are any significant differences in how they perform and behave.

"We now see that the normal form of this prion protein is one of many key players in the fascinating and important process of neurogenesis," says Macklis, who is also a member of the Harvard Stem Cell Institute.


###
This research was funded by the National Institutes of Health/National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, the Ellison Medical Research Foundation, Paralyzed Veterans of America/Travis Roy Foundation, the Children's Neurobiological Solutions Foundation, the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada, and the Harvard Center for Neurodegeneration and Repair.

Written by David Cameron

Susan Lindquist's primary affiliation is with Whitehead Institute of Biomedical Research, where her laboratory is located and all her research conducted. She also is a professor of biology at Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

[bse-tester]

Reader (The Second) Wrote:

Just because current tests are not sensitive enough to detect prions in younger animals does not mean that they are not there or that the level they are present is not sufficient to transmit the disease. WHAT is the difference between a 29 month old and a 30 month old?!

The urine test that we have is certainly sensitive enough to detect PrP, PrPsc in any animal or human regardless of their age. In fact, our test was published under the heading of Sensitive Detection of Prion Protein in Humans. (Journal of Experimental Biology and Medicine - May 2005) and we can safely state that age is of no consequence at all. This is why I have long argued that the entire concept of the so-called "30 month barrier" is nothing more than a very good marketing ploy. To tell the world that an animal younger than 30 months cannot have BSE is playing with fire and of course, age and diseases, infections, contaminations or whatever one wishes to call BSE (Lord knows everyone has their own way of describing it) it is like stating that HIV and AIDS can only be contracted by someone who is 30 years old or over. Ludicrous!! Feed ban or not, the animal and the infectious prion protein will most certainly interact if there is opportunity and a means to bring them together. The same is true of us humans.

 

[Jason]

The 30 month "cutoff" was chosen because of ease and accuracy of dentition. The real age is 36 months where the misfolded prions start to show up.

The article Oldtimer posted shows prions occur naturally and have a function, just not fully understood at present.

IF and that is a big IF, misfolded prions are starting to accumulate before the 36 (or 30) month age in cattle, the lack of concentration is a protection against accumulation. The amount of "infected" under 30 month materal that would have to be consumed to trigger a cross species TSE is unfathomable.

Some risks are not really that risky.

People have been killed by buses, but how many people refuse to cross the street because of that?

Again, testing of higher risk animals like Canada is doing should be sufficient, unless and until higher numbers and younger animals are found.

Currently any animal exhibiting symptoms is to be tested and animals that are in a thin state or die and are at least 30 months are eligible to be tested.

I have done 3 and have another old cow that is thin that I will test if I get her calf on another cow (if I lose a calf).

 

[rkaiser]

I'mmm back money bags.

Have you read Oltimers post yet? Good one bud, maybe the sceintist can actually learn something from the Old cowboy.

How does the food you eat and the oxygen your breathe get to nourish you and that great emptiness between your ears? Is it by some form of voodoo magic or simply having to bang your head against the plate once you lick it clean?? Answer the original question pal and show us your depth of knowledge??

Have you expanded your depth of knowledg yet by reading Oldtimers post money bags?

If you are refering to digestion in your weird little post BSE boy - do you realise that the world beleives that a misfolded prion is not only indigestable, but virtually indestructable? Some scientist you turned out to be.

I'll have to go back to this question you are asking and return to my daddy's computer to give you the answer.

Just hold on to your depends there money bags, I'll be right back.

 

[bse-tester]

I am aware that Prions are virtually indestructable and the term digestive track is mentioned only as a means of entering the system so please, do not bend the meaning of what I am saying to suit your own rhetoric. Give up the attitude Randy and maybe we might all get along.

 

[bse-tester]

I'll have to go back to this question you are asking and return to my daddy's computer to give you the answer.

Randy - don't bother. By the time you find a decent article to quote from I will be sleeping and will have forgotten all about your attempts to impress the world. Let it go and let's try to be civil from here on in. Your call.

 

[rkaiser]

First of all Introductions Money Bags.

http://www.westernrancher.com/CelticCattle.html

Here is my web page. Where is yours?

Someone with millions of dollars to throw around must at least have a web page!

The blood brain barrier thing.

You obviously did not like my first answer, so I'll try again.

Do we all agree that the prion is not the problem, but the misfolded prion is? Do we also all agree that the misfolded prion is said to be indestructable and undigestable by natural means? Do we agree that the body of any animal has protective barriers against things that are undigestable? In fact the brain has an even more complex means of protection from infection etc.?

BSE tester and his cronie theorist beleive that the misfolded prion somehow passes throught hese barriers in the infamous factor X procedure. Talk about voodoo buddy.

Randy and the mental health floor of Ponoka hospital beleive that prions become misfolded where they exist due to contamination be rouge metals and an absence of those they are meant to attract and fold in their natural way.

Thus I must ask Reader 2 to not put words in my mouth and say that I beleive in transmission in the way she wants everyone else to believe I do. The only thing that I believe transmits from one unfortunate beast to another is an excessive amount of problem metals.

The strangest part of these threads is that I want BSE testers test to work. I am a strong vocal supporter of BSE testing for export marketing purposes.I know that the world believes this "feed transmission of misfolded prions theory", and will not change for a long time. So test em altuist boy (sorry I spelled that wrong the last time I used it) test em till your eyes turn green, or your buddies pockets, or whoever elses pockets.
Maybe flounder for all we know. BUT test em to stop the BSeconomics that are destroying farmers and making those up the chain wealthy.

But make sure your test only identifies the misfolded prions BSE tester, cause if it identifies all prions, we may have to start building Space Shuttles by the thousands to get rid of all the cows, then all the deer, then all the goats, etc. etc. until all that is left on the planet are plants and your money bags.