steers vs. heifers...

[RSL]

heifers work pretty well on grass. You can often get them at a discount to the steers, and the difference narrows as they gain weight. They gain good and have some flexibility. If a bull gets out a $2 shot of estrumate will take care of things.
I agree with NR about breeding 600 heifers. They get pregnant and mature at a smaller weight.
Heifers on grass are a pretty flexible option. I am not sure about the US market, but in Canada I would be pretty careful this year about being able to pull the marketing trigger pretty quickly if things look promising.

 

[gcreekrch]

averaged weighing 667 .

You'd put a bull on a 600+/- heifer????


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Every year, 8-900 lb hfrs seem to turn into 1500 lb + cows. I don't need any of those. :wink:

 

[Faster horses]

When we first moved here, we went to town to the sale to buy some black angus heifers out of a registered herd.

When we got there, the heifers were beautiful. They also weighed 1200 lbs!!!!!!!!!! We passed on them. Good grief, they were going to be huge
cows.

One thing I notice in talking with our customers, seems everyone wants
BIG heifers and small cows. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[Denny]

Several hundred times a year-the best breed ups I've seen are from lighter heifers gaining weight-young-lean and horny. seen some dismal wrecks from 'name' cattle-I honestly think that a heifers first few ovulations are her most fertile-if they get the snot fed out of them and start cycling months early they can be pigs to get bred. A 650 weight heifer will still be 900 pounds or so at calving-they really don't need to be any bigger.

I agree a 100%

 

[Anonymous]

Several hundred times a year-the best breed ups I've seen are from lighter heifers gaining weight-young-lean and horny. seen some dismal wrecks from 'name' cattle-I honestly think that a heifers first few ovulations are her most fertile-if they get the snot fed out of them and start cycling months early they can be pigs to get bred. A 650 weight heifer will still be 900 pounds or so at calving-they really don't need to be any bigger.

I agree a 100%

I have to agree...I was up fencing on a pasture today- and swung over and looked at the registered heifers/cows- and the ones we bought as 600-700 lb grass wintered yearlings- that calved at 900 lbs are in much better shape than the 800-900 lb ones that came out of a feedlot heifer conditioning program- and calved at 1100- and on top of that their calves look better....

Because of a bad winter a few years ago- when the snow was so high I couldn't get feed into the lot- I quit feeding my heifers separate in the winter....They only get grain for 2-3 weeks while being weaned- bucket carried because I think it quiets them down- and then they join the cows of all ages... I truly believe it gets them fitting into the social structure of the herd faster...
Somewhere I read an article by an expert ( :???: ) that a heifer that is a little thinner- gaining during breeding season- will breed up faster than one that is hog fat out of a feeding program...I'm a true believer in that..
And I also don't need anymore of those 1500 lb saddle horse tall cows....

 

[wdcook]

averaged weighing 667 .

You'd put a bull on a 600+/- heifer????


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Consider shrink. Bring those heifers home and give them a good drink and some feed and they will weigh well over 700 in a very few days if not the day after the sale.

 

[Aaron]

Several hundred times a year-the best breed ups I've seen are from lighter heifers gaining weight-young-lean and horny. seen some dismal wrecks from 'name' cattle-I honestly think that a heifers first few ovulations are her most fertile-if they get the snot fed out of them and start cycling months early they can be pigs to get bred. A 650 weight heifer will still be 900 pounds or so at calving-they really don't need to be any bigger.

I agree a 100%

And I would disagree 100%. But in the end, I suppose it ends up being a decision of which is the cheapest to produce to have their first calf. Our heifers calve at 30 months, and by my quick liberal calculations, our 30 month heifers calving this year will cost $913 to calve out, which is on the high side this past winter due to the cost of hay. Most years I would say about $850 to $875. I know most guys around here say it cost them at least $1000 to calve a heifer at 2.

Between calf losses, rejections, calving problems, cost of feeding quality feedstuffs to them as yearlings and at post-calving, and poorer re-breeding percentages compared to the main cowherd, I can't pencil out calving at 2.

 

[Grassfarmer]

Several hundred times a year-the best breed ups I've seen are from lighter heifers gaining weight-young-lean and horny. seen some dismal wrecks from 'name' cattle-I honestly think that a heifers first few ovulations are her most fertile-if they get the snot fed out of them and start cycling months early they can be pigs to get bred. A 650 weight heifer will still be 900 pounds or so at calving-they really don't need to be any bigger.

I agree a 100%

And I would disagree 100%. But in the end, I suppose it ends up being a decision of which is the cheapest to produce to have their first calf. Our heifers calve at 30 months, and by my quick liberal calculations, our 30 month heifers calving this year will cost $913 to calve out, which is on the high side this past winter due to the cost of hay. Most years I would say about $850 to $875. I know most guys around here say it cost them at least $1000 to calve a heifer at 2.

Between calf losses, rejections, calving problems, cost of feeding quality feedstuffs to them as yearlings and at post-calving, and poorer re-breeding percentages compared to the main cowherd, I can't pencil out calving at 2.

I wouldn't trust "liberal" calculations Aaron, they generally can't run a calculator :lol: :lol:
I've calved heifers at 3 (normal in Scotland), 30 months and now 2 year olds. Of the few stupid heifers I've ever had re rejection there were more 3 yr olds guilty of that than 2 year olds. We don't feed our yearling heifers well and will breed them at 6-700lbs - they manage just fine. I believe there are some situations in Western Canada where calving at 30 months allows you to run the heifers with the cows and give them no extra feed or attention. In Scotland calving at less than 3 is not a good idea unless the cattle are housed in winter - nothing takes condition off cattle like a cold, wet rain in a "raw" climate. Some places up the west coast on occasion get 6 feet of rain water in the first 3 months of the year. Try calving 2 year olds in that climate and you are in for a wreck!
It's another case of horses for courses.

 

[Faster horses]

I'm lost. :???:

Why are we talking calving heifers at 30 months?

Our heifers get no grain period. Just hay and they breed up and calve at
24 months and we aren't the only ones around here. It's common to do that.

When we first started in this business in 1965 in Wyoming, the ranch we were on we ran on shares. They kept Hereford heifers til they were 2 year olds to breed and calve as 3's. What a mess. Those big ole heifers didn't want anything to do with a calf. They stopped that program and started breeding them at 16 months of age and everything went much
better. Those 3 year olds are hard to handle when they don't want their calf. Mr. FH has a name for them, but I won't print it here. :shock: :lol:

 

[leanin' H]

And remember, it wasnt very long ago when 450 lbs hiefers were normal size for breeding. I look back through old ranch pictures and get a kick out of frame sizes and such. In this country we like mature cows that go about 1050 and not much more. You breed 900 pound heifers and you gotta increase input which isn't an option on the desert. But to each their own! :wink:

 

[Northern Rancher]

I don't think anybody runs them any tougher than we do-winter out licking snow on straight hay-they breed and calve out with the cows. when cattle were virtually worthless due to BSE we kept some over to calve older they didn't perform any better than the heifers that calved at two. Our 4H heifers get the red carpet treatment and we have more trouble with them than all the rest combined.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I'm lost. :???:

Why are we talking calving heifers at 30 months?

Our heifers get no grain period. Just hay and they breed up and calve at
24 months and we aren't the only ones around here. It's common to do that.

<chuckle> I'm a little lost too FH. When I'm shipping my yearling feeders, I decide which heifers are a little too nice to give away at the barn, boot them out with the cow herd, and they start dropping calves right along side the older cows.

One thing I notice in talking with our customers, seems everyone wants BIG heifers and small cows.

This is so true. My feeder bunch were heifer heavy this year, and I had some excellent heifer calves in there. Unfortunately the bank makes my marketting decisions :lol: , so I was going to have to ship most of them. I offered my father a trade, heifer weight for his steer weight, and told him he got to pick. I thought I'd taught the old grain farmer something over the years, but he walked right past the best heifers on the place and picked all the big ones.

Something about a larger animal that fools an untrained eye, and even a few eyes that should know better.

Rod

 

[Denny]

I normally pick heifers before they are born I know which cow's I want more of and breed the accodingly. Average wt. on our butcher cow's is 1100#s thats plenty big enough.