Still think it's not a trade barrier?

[Kato]

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a .........

We were listening to the news at noon on the radio, and the Manitoba Pork Producers announced that American buyers of isowean pigs have quit honouring their contracts, so plans are being made to humanely euthanize hundreds of thousands of baby pigs. :shock: Not hundreds. :shock: Not thousands. :shock: Hundreds of thousands. :!: :!: :!: :!:

The weanlings will be trucked to a central location, placed in a chamber, gassed, then loaded into containers and disposed of.

It's enough to make you cry. We've spent the last couple of nights watching millions of dollars being raised on American Idol to help feed hungry people, and here are hundreds of thousands of pigs, plus a large number of farmers just being wasted for what?

All over one word. BORN. Take the born out of Born and raised in the U.S. and none of this would have to happen.

:roll: I expect now we get a comment about relying on one market or sucking off the hind tit of the American producer. :roll: Easy to say when you're not the one driving that truck full of babies to the gas chamer, and explaining to your kids why it's happening.

We're not even in the pig business, but this just makes me sick.

 

[Sandhusker]

There is nothing in the language of the bill that prohibits Canadian weanlings. All these problems were created by opponents of the bill such as NCBA and AMI that are spreading misinformation and bold faced lies and intentionally making things much more difficult than that need to be in an effort to derail the entire thing.

 

[cutterone]

Well I don't know if trade barriers are affecting this but over supply and feed costs sure come to mind. Feeders are bringing $5 - $10 here, most have sold their sows and closed their buildings. The market prices suck and no one can afford to feed the corn & bean meal at current prices. If there are 100's of thousands that will be done away with sounds to me like someone who bred all those sows cut their own throat.

 

[PORKER]

DITTO, There is nothing in the language of the bill that prohibits Canadian weanlings. All these problems were created by opponents of the bill such as NCBA and AMI that are spreading misinformation and bold faced lies and intentionally making things much more difficult than that need to be in an effort to derail the entire thing.

They ,the packers ,processors, wholesalers ,and retailers started country of origin segeration when all that was needed was ScoringAg.com !

 

[Kato]

There is one reason and one reason only why those pigs exist. American feeders.

They offered good prices and contracts which were supposed to be assurances of future markets. If someone offers a price and a guarantee that they will take your product, would you take it? Most people would, especially in an uncertain business like agriculture. These arrangements were supposed to be the safety net that offered protection from just such market interruptions. I could see that if they were selling into an open market, that they could be faulted for overproducing, but they were not. They were providing piglets to fill contracts signed with the intention that the orders would be filled. They were living up to their side of the bargain. As has been all to common lately, in dealings with Americans, they were the only ones living up to them. :roll: :roll:

But then again, I guess if the American government thinks it doesn't need to live up to it's word, then why should American producers?

There have been some hard lessons learned in this country about the integrity of agreements made with your country/countrymen that will be remembered for a long time. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

Either they don't buy them or they honor the contract, accept delivery and pay with a rubber check. Your choice is?

You can carp about Americans all you want, but I don't think the folks who say, "We're catching them all" in regards to your BSE deal are quite ready for sainthood, either.

 

[Cinch]

There is one reason and one reason only why those pigs exist. American feeders.

They offered good prices and contracts which were supposed to be assurances of future markets. If someone offers a price and a guarantee that they will take your product, would you take it? Most people would, especially in an uncertain business like agriculture. These arrangements were supposed to be the safety net that offered protection from just such market interruptions. I could see that if they were selling into an open market, that they could be faulted for overproducing, but they were not. They were providing piglets to fill contracts signed with the intention that the orders would be filled. They were living up to their side of the bargain. As has been all to common lately, in dealings with Americans, they were the only ones living up to them. :roll: :roll:

But then again, I guess if the American government thinks it doesn't need to live up to it's word, then why should American producers?

There have been some hard lessons learned in this country about the integrity of agreements made with your country/countrymen that will be remembered for a long time. :roll: :roll: :roll:

You can't accuse the packers of discrimination. They have already done those same things, or very close to it to the chicken contractors in this country. It's not about country of origin, that may be the excuse they are giving. COOL wont even be implemented by the time those are long eaten. Tyson and other chicken processors have dishonored or modified contracts at will in this country for a long time. They do it because they can get away with it. If it is truly a breach of contract, sue 'em. And I hope you win.

 

[cowzilla]

Drove past a large feed mill in Brandon the other day . It was the middle of the afternoon and most of there feed trucks where parked in a nice row beside the plant. Hope the boys got lots of overtime this winter, think there in for a bit of a dry spell :wink:

 

[fedup2]

Chicken producers were warned when they contracted, about all the things that could come back to haunt them. All they seen was the roses and forgot about the thorns. Many got burnt. Hog producers who went the same direction were also told & seen what could happen just by watching the chicken industry. They decided the risk was worth it. Now they are finding out different. This has been happening for a long time. For someone to call this a trade barrier and use it for more anti-American BullShit ticks me off!

Heck yes, I feel sorry for the people getting burnt by these companies, but they knew they were taking a risk by signing these contracts in the first place. They were written to protect the companies, not the producer and the producer had that information before they signed. Those companies always leave theirselves an out. Despite all the warnings, these producers hung their @ss over the fence anyway!

It should scare the hell out of everyone that there are people on this forum waving those pom-poms to send the cattle industry the same direction! Who or what will they blame it on when they finally learn the hard way? :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Denny]

I herd about this on the Linder Farm Network this week.What They said was the packers told the growers they would'nt buy butchers that were'nt USA born come september.The math says that these isowean's would be ready for kill after COOL is implemented.Therefore knowone wants them as they don't have a market for them.Knowone wins in a deal like this.

 

[Sandhusker]

I herd about this on the Linder Farm Network this week.What They said was the packers told the growers they would'nt buy butchers that were'nt USA born come september.The math says that these isowean's would be ready for kill after COOL is implemented.Therefore knowone wants them as they don't have a market for them.Knowone wins in a deal like this.

The packers are playing dirty. Has somebody asked the packers why there will be no market or are they just believing those theiving pirates? T

This is they type of crap that happens in a concentrated market, NCBA.

 

[cowzilla]

Will these be the same Packers complaining in a few months of SHORT SUPPLY and having to short shifts and close plants? Hmm :roll: :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

Will these be the same Packers complaining in a few months of SHORT SUPPLY and having to short shifts and close plants? Hmm :roll: :roll:

The same packers that all announce they are going to cut production, watch fats prices drop - and then don't?

 

[QUESTION]

Just another example of a contract not being honored. Take'em to court and make them pay for the production and disposal cost , as well as pain and suffering for the stress incured. Then it will be about even . Everyone needs to figure it our when a contract is broken in the Ag. production damages need to be collected. Then the last vestage for pirates will be gone. Just look at grains they want your to guarentee an amount of buschels you will produce without act of god consequences so they can market a long time in advance. And now that canola is gone crazy a dollar a buschel jump in and day so they will not contract a price over 3 months in advance. The reason is so they can deliver on their contract because there are consequences if they fail to follow thru. there has to be consequence for isowean. Maybe a judge will award damages to the point where canadians will control isowean :twisted: .

 

[Denny]

Just another example of a contract not being honored. Take'em to court and make them pay for the production and disposal cost , as well as pain and suffering for the stress incured. Then it will be about even . Everyone needs to figure it our when a contract is broken in the Ag. production damages need to be collected. Then the last vestage for pirates will be gone. Just look at grains they want your to guarentee an amount of buschels you will produce without act of god consequences so they can market a long time in advance. And now that canola is gone crazy a dollar a buschel jump in and day so they will not contract a price over 3 months in advance. The reason is so they can deliver on their contract because there are consequences if they fail to follow thru. there has to be consequence for isowean. Maybe a judge will award damages to the point where canadians will control isowean :twisted: .

Here's a novel idea feed them out and sell butchers we have family farmers here who do it.They even pay their bill's.

 

[busboy]

I find it extremely amusing listening to all of the folks talking about how the Canadian producer should have to live with COOL. Wonderful. How about everyone who plants corn, grown from seed that may have been produced in Canada provides documentation to their elevator, or to the packer that buys their cattle or hogs that have eaten that grain, that the corn they have to sell, or the critters they have to sell, have some percentage of foreign content. Better yet, have them all list the countries other than our friends to the north that produce the seed, and then expect to have the system keep track of every single bushel of grain according to the country of origin of the seed.

You should also include the source of the fertilizer, the source of the fuel, the source of herbicides used as well.

If I deliver hogs to a plant that were born in Manitoba, fed in MN, (owned by myself) at the same time as a neighbor who farrowed his own, how does that ID stay with the meat all the way thru? The packer...no problem. The wholesaler....getting interesting. The retailer....let's see, 3 chops from this loin that came from my hog, need one more to make up the pack. Hmm, can't use that loin, it's from a different hog. It's a lot tougher than you think.

I don't hear anyone complaining about the trucks that bring down load after load of potash, and load up on load after load of US corn and soymeal. What a bunch of hypocrites!

A proud feeding, trucking, power washing, buyer and owner of Manitoba born (17days there, by the way) isoweans.

 

[Sandhusker]

Do you realize how many other countries already have COOL?

This aint rocket science. The packers can segregate easily - they're already doing it for their premium lines and for the Korean trade. All it takes is the scheduling ability of a junior-high kid.

 

[busboy]

So, are you saying you want cool applied to grains then? Probably should throw in oil as well, since a junior high kid could do it. Haven't heard any requests to label Canadian crude coming down, have I?

I agree that the packer could very easily handle COOL. From then on, especially for the domestic market, it becomes very difficult.

All of my packers have informed me that they will not accept hogs not born in the US come Sept, due to their CUSTOMERS being unwilling to handle the paperwork. So, due to COOL, I'm not filling barns. Funny thing is, the one player that I can see really being able to profit from this will be someone like Smithfield. Producers in Canada go under, packers in Canada struggle, Smithfield buys Canadian packers, buys Canadian producers, Smithfield markets to world as high quality Canadian product!

If this is only about giving information to the consumer, lets show how many grams of any medication an animal has been fed, as well as listing the injections given. Let the consumer know it all, and I think you will find that the US sourced pork would face an uphill battle. Don't want to share all that info? I gladly would. If COOL is really about the consumer, and not about perceived advantages that some may think they will enjoy, let's tell the consumer everything.

 

[Sandhusker]

Strange, the retailers would have the same paperwork with cattle, and the same paperwork with pork from hogs that have spent 100% of their lives in the US, but I haven't heard the same concerns...

I smell a rat

 

[Kato]

Welcome busboy! Glad to hear a new voice.

You've got a very good point with the grains. Sometimes it seems like there's cherry picking going on regarding what gets labled and what does not.

Denny, it would be nice to take these weaners and feed them out here, but we've got a great big monkey wrench in the works there. Our provincial government has just implemented a moratorium on building hog barns or expanding operations that covers about half of the south part of the province. Anything that is anywhere near the Red River valley is basically shut down. If they want to expand they have to leave. The idea is to stop excess phosphorous in Lake Winnipeg, but in reality, hogs are a small player in this. Small player, but easy politically correct target. :roll: :roll: :roll: But that's a whole other story..............

These guys truly are between a rock and a hard place.