• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Stock Dog Training

Help Support Ranchers.net:

S

skidboots

Active member
Joined
Aug 21, 2006
Messages
39
Reaction score
0
Location
30miSW of San Antonio, TX
Since most of you are snowed in, just sitting around, I thought it might be a good time for me to aks advice. Hate to admit it, but I don't have any cattle. I have two horses, and seven dogs, two of which might be stock dogs. The blue heeler is nuts! Just runs after the horses, uncontrollably, and at 10yrs, she's too old to change. But, she had the good fortune to get bred by my neighbor's shore 'nuff stock dog...an austrailan shepherd. The pup, now 9, has always been the best you could hope for. With no training, she walks at heel.no leash..automatically. Goes for the horses on command and "comes off" when I call her name. and comes to heel and sits, till I tell he otherwise. I hate that she has spent her life with no job to do.

I find horses really hard to herd where you want them to go with dogs. Do you agree? Are cattle different. Do they "drive" better? This is what I want to know. That's why I started this thread. Any training tips?

I wanted to find this dog a home when she was young, but the local ranchers all use border collies, and some don't treat a dog too kind, so I wound up keeping her. She's never been off the place, and me and the wife are the only two people she's ever seen, so she might not be able to leave now.
This cross resulted in a throwback to the collie. She has a long pointed snout, tri colored face, stub tail, and giant upright ears. Looks funny, but a real good dog. Got bit by rattler 3months ago. Healed up, but left a real ugly scar down her right hind leg.
 
First of all quit letting the dog move the horses before it decides to bite one and gets kicked. You arent doing yourself any training favors by letting it go after the horses in the first place. Just wait for the rodeo when you're riding along and the dog heels your horse! If you are interested in training it, you need to get some calves or sheep or goats. Once you do that, then you can train it.

Get a pen set up where the stock cant get away and start teaching the pup the commands you want to use. Such as left, right, stop, etc. See what the pup will do. How old is the dog, 9 months or years? If it's 9 years you probably wont get much accomplished.

Also, by sending the dog to the horses with no purpose and then calling it back, you have taught it to run out and come back.

Cattle will handle easy for a dog if they respect the dog, but if the dog won't stand up to the cattle you will have a hard time training your dog. Thats why you need to get some 4 to 600 lb calves to start with, get them dog broke, and then let the dog training begin. Then if the pup has any work in it, you can move up to more challenging cattle.

Good luck
 
I had a border/heeler cross. She decieded to start chasing the horses and one day when I was working some cows in the pasture she heeled my dead broke horse. He became unbroke and bucked me off, I hit so hard that it herniated(sp) 2 discs in my lower back. They still haven't healed. Notice I said had a border/hee er. I love dogs but that one was bad I have no problems with putting down a bad dog. I couldn't pawn her off on anyone else and sleep at night. Mind you this wasn't a one time thing, she bite the MDU lady and my dads nurse and attacked my brother.
Anyway moral of the story is that a dog that takes after horses can really get you hurt!!
 
Only three things can happen when you let a dog chase a horse

1) Dead dog or badly injured dog.
2) Hurt horse from panic
3) You getting tossed on your butt when dog does it to horse while you are on it.

We have one dog that was trained with horses as where he was to bring the cattle/sheep to. If he is in a pasture and the sheep or cows run to a horse he leaves them be... That is is training, it is so ingrained him that he will bring them to a horse before he will a person... Gets darn annoying... The other ones flat out ignore the horse we have...
 
Since you are asking about cowdogs and your posting name is skidboots...

go to:

http://skidboot.com/

It's pretty fun and interesting


that is one amazing dog!


And yes, do not let your dog herd the horses!
 
Horses and sic'em dogs....just a matter of time before someone/something is bleeding!! NO...NO....NO!!!!!!
 
Okay, I hear you. I have always kept my dogs in 4X16 chain link runs, and let them exercise in a 100X25 dog pen (with hot wire on the bottom, so none dig out). I don't let them run with the horses, but I used too. I can't dare even lead a horse from one paddock to the next with one of those darn dogs out...so I would never have one loose when mounted.

But, I hear you saying that with training and correction, a stock dog can be kept from running horses. I put Cow Dogs in a search engine, and one site is selling a 2007 calendar of mounted cowboys, their dogs and horses. It's a pretty nice scene.

Thanks, again, for all your comments
 
Your Horse, saddle, rope and good Dog are PART Of A Cowboys Tools!
Your Horse and Dog should be a TEAM and work together.

I had angus cows - Angus cows tend to put unknown dog out of a field - if my TEAM enters a field of new Angus Cows (or any breed) cow may try to run "Dog" off - "Dog" looks for the only safe spot - under his TEAM mate "Horse" and move with its feet and cows back off.

A good dog-man NEVER uses dogs on horses :!:

Thats a good way to cripple a horse or get a dog killed :twisted:

You said something about "Drive"
Do you want a "Drive Dog" or a "Head Dog"
Do you know the diff.

Note:
I find Boarder Collies are good dogs but are to Busy for Snuffy (wild) (not dog broke) Cows and get they Buzz-up
Aussie go everywhere with me, are quite, (stock gets to know and trust them) and they only work when I want them to.

I have seen more than ONE Aussie helping clean-up a new born Calf and the cows trusted them. Try that with a BC
 
Any dog that gets run off and stays under a horse is about as useful as a poodle in a group of cows. If your dog can't take the heat, you should rethink calling it a cowdog.

My Border Collies do just fine and don't go hide behind their teammate when a cows takes after them. They get in position and get the cow going back with the rest of them. If you have control on your dog you never have to worry about it being a "busy" Border Collie. And I wouldn't dare let my cattle let my dogs lick off a calf, the next time it may be a coyote.
 
Why Up-set the stock when you don't have to :???:

There is a difference between "Hiding and Staying-out-of-the-way" - - Like I say BUSY DOG just up-set the stock BUT NOT ON MY PLACE :!:

I rather have a dog that just there when "I" need it and leave the POUNDS on the Stock.

BC are great in their place - my ranch is NOT that place :!:

BC are SHEEP DOG and good at that but it takes POWER to work Snuffy Cows
 
Well, say what you want, but anytime anything out of the ordinary gets in a pasture with cattle, you're gonna make them nervous. Dogs are a tool just like your rope. If you don't know how and when to use them, then yes cattle will get upset.

Apparently you haven't seen a Border Collie lately. There are two lines of them (sheep & cattle) and cattle side of them will outwork most dogs. They're plenty tough on "snuffy cattle" and they don't even have to bark at the cattle like an Aussie.

I am not gonna bash on your dogs, but at least the Border Collie breeders were smart enough to form their own association to keep the working/herding ability in the dogs. Most Aussie's were almost bred to working extinction by the AKC for conformation and show ribbons. You definitely can't say that about a Border Collie.
 
i have to agree with sic em reds
i have seen lots of sheep dogs and i have alot of freinds that breed border collies that are as tough as any dog can be on cattle
my self i work kelpies but we shouldn't argue that it is like fords and chevy's
the only thing i'll say is that i prefer hearding dogs and will not alow a chase dog around
and if one of my dogs hid under my horse or behind another dog he would not be around long as i would consider that weak and as a great dog trainer once said "life is too short to work weak dogs"
until later
jerry
 
Well here goes, I'm new here but do enjoy your lively conversations. I most certainly do enjoy good stock dogs and around this part of the country there aren't very many. I would have to agree with ODNT that power and lots of it is needed when working rank cows. I work around some old desert cows that require these tuff, powerful, dogs, more than one usually three to five, I want enough dog power to get the job done. There may be some BC somewhere that canwork rank cows but the vast overwhelming majority I've seen can't take the abuse and punishment these old girls are going to give them. I've got some Hangin Tree, McNab and crossbred dogs that do well on rank cows. I have to have a dog that barks, they hunt cattle down,gather and hold till I get there, I don't know where they are at unless I can hear them once and awhile. It just take a bigger, tuffer, more powerful dog in some of these real world working situations.
 
hi mort and welcome to the board
i understand what you are saying about needing more dogs i work 2 to 4 dogs here in this open country on yearlings but i may have as many as 1200 hd to move at one time i somtimes have a helper and sometimes i don't so i know about needing power powerful dogs
i worked out your way some in the desert in nevada and those old brahma x cows were tough on dogs
i have also gathered lots of wild cattle all over the country and i have always used kelpies to work them but i had a pair of half black mouth cur and half plot dogs that i used to help find them in real brushy country
and the kelpies i was using then learned to bark some also when i was out of the picture so i could find them
it worked real well and i made a good deal of money gathering them by the head
well i hope you enjoy the boards
they are addictive
until later
jerry
 
I also have to work by myself, the kids are all gone, so it's just me and my dogs and if we can't get it done it ain't gonna happen. Thats why I emphasize WORKING DOGS. I have a son who works on a outfit over this way, suppose to have nine thousand mother cows in NV, OR and ID, hes got a blackmouth cur, catahoula and some crossbred dogs. Pedigrees donnnn't mean nothin to them old girls runnin out there in the rocks and brush, just gotta have dogs that will get the job done.
 

Latest posts

Top