StopAnimalID.org

[PORKER]

OCM,If I remember right www.scoringag.com offered their system to the government for free and they had all of the data plus more that you speak of including brands.The problem arose when they,NAIS, found out that they just couldn't look at everybodys records as the system was encrypted for privacy of the owners data.But they could put in a RFID tag number and the information was availble within a second if they had a login code.

These systems can be improved some to work better. Yup ,except ScoringAg has all the improvements.

 

[Bill]

I do think it is very important animals be able to be traced back to their place of origin. How exactly I'm not sure.

I also think branding is of great importance. If I raise it I am proud of my product and want to claim ownership. Am I missing something? :???:

The problem is that there are not enough US producers who agree with you. They are afraid of traceback for various reasons:
-it will ID exactly the quality of cattle I have
-why should I have to pay for it
-they'll know how many head I have

When the USDA was investigating the Washington BSE positive the OIE told them to quit their traceouts as it was a JOKE!

ocm you have a damn poor memory.

 

[ocm]

I do think it is very important animals be able to be traced back to their place of origin. How exactly I'm not sure.

I also think branding is of great importance. If I raise it I am proud of my product and want to claim ownership. Am I missing something? :???:

The problem is that there are not enough US producers who agree with you. They are afraid of traceback for various reasons:
-it will ID exactly the quality of cattle I have
-why should I have to pay for it
-they'll know how many head I have

When the USDA was investigating the Washington BSE positive the OIE told them to quit their traceouts as it was a JOKE!

ocm you have a damn poor memory.

What I remember is that the STATE of Washington knew the cow was from Canada (based on their STATE records) before Ann Veneman stepped to the platform to announce a BSE positive. The Federal government took several DAYS to figure it out.

Why would I think a FEDERAL program is an improvement over STATE programs?

 

[Bill]

I do think it is very important animals be able to be traced back to their place of origin. How exactly I'm not sure.

I also think branding is of great importance. If I raise it I am proud of my product and want to claim ownership. Am I missing something? :???:

The problem is that there are not enough US producers who agree with you. They are afraid of traceback for various reasons:
-it will ID exactly the quality of cattle I have
-why should I have to pay for it
-they'll know how many head I have

When the USDA was investigating the Washington BSE positive the OIE told them to quit their traceouts as it was a JOKE!

ocm you have a damn poor memory.

What I remember is that the STATE of Washington knew the cow was from Canada (based on their STATE records) before Ann Veneman stepped to the platform to announce a BSE positive. The Federal government took several DAYS to figure it out.

Why would I think a FEDERAL program is an improvement over STATE programs?

:lol: :lol: :lol: They knew she was from Canada because she had a CANADIAN H of A EAR TAG.

Don't give the STATE of Washington or any US system too much credit on that one! :roll:

 

[Econ101]

I do think it is very important animals be able to be traced back to their place of origin. How exactly I'm not sure.

I also think branding is of great importance. If I raise it I am proud of my product and want to claim ownership. Am I missing something? :???:

The problem is that there are not enough US producers who agree with you. They are afraid of traceback for various reasons:
-it will ID exactly the quality of cattle I have
-why should I have to pay for it
-they'll know how many head I have

When the USDA was investigating the Washington BSE positive the OIE told them to quit their traceouts as it was a JOKE!

ocm you have a damn poor memory.

What I remember is that the STATE of Washington knew the cow was from Canada (based on their STATE records) before Ann Veneman stepped to the platform to announce a BSE positive. The Federal government took several DAYS to figure it out.

Why would I think a FEDERAL program is an improvement over STATE programs?

The news and everyone else is always a couple of days ahead of Washington time. Ask Chertoff.

 

[ocm]

The problem is that there are not enough US producers who agree with you. They are afraid of traceback for various reasons:
-it will ID exactly the quality of cattle I have
-why should I have to pay for it
-they'll know how many head I have

When the USDA was investigating the Washington BSE positive the OIE told them to quit their traceouts as it was a JOKE!

ocm you have a damn poor memory.

What I remember is that the STATE of Washington knew the cow was from Canada (based on their STATE records) before Ann Veneman stepped to the platform to announce a BSE positive. The Federal government took several DAYS to figure it out.

Why would I think a FEDERAL program is an improvement over STATE programs?

:lol: :lol: :lol: They knew she was from Canada because she had a CANADIAN H of A EAR TAG.

Don't give the STATE of Washington or any US system too much credit on that one! :roll:

Having or not having an eartag was not the big problem. The question was whether federal employees could read.

The owner of the cow also had meticulous records of his purchases and knew EXACTLY where the cow had come from.

Actually the STATE knew because of documents the owner possessed, not the eartag.

 

[mrj]

You need to go on the forum and read some of the letters and comments...I'll bet old Johanns has gotten an earful...Nothing more dangerous than telling a little old lady what she has to do with her "pets"- in the name of the Guvment...

Oldtimer I guess it may be ''funny'' what these old ladies are doing now since it fits in with your plan. Will you still think it is ''cute'' when this group of earbenders decides that they do not like our husbandry practices. When there many irate voices scream to the gov. about hot branding will you still chuckle :shock: Carefull who you let in bed with you Oldtimer you may not like all that they bring with them!

Actually I support getting a nationwide ID system- I just think its too bad USDA and NCBA have again screwed things up so bad that from now on there will be an organized battle against it...Makes everything that much more difficult.....

Another case of government trying to just shove things down the throat rather than working with everyone to build something...Same as NCBA's "we need to ed-u- cate them thar dumb common folk" policy......You'd think they'd learn from the Japanese fiascos....

OT, since you make the claims against NCBA, you owe us details. Specifically, what has NCBA done re. NAIS that is wrong, and what have they done about it that is neutral or ok?

MRJ

 

[Bill]

What I remember is that the STATE of Washington knew the cow was from Canada (based on their STATE records) before Ann Veneman stepped to the platform to announce a BSE positive. The Federal government took several DAYS to figure it out.

Why would I think a FEDERAL program is an improvement over STATE programs?

:lol: :lol: :lol: They knew she was from Canada because she had a CANADIAN H of A EAR TAG.

Don't give the STATE of Washington or any US system too much credit on that one! :roll:

Having or not having an eartag was not the big problem. The question was whether federal employees could read.

The owner of the cow also had meticulous records of his purchases and knew EXACTLY where the cow had come from.

Actually the STATE knew because of documents the owner possessed, not the eartag.

The owner of the cow had such meticulous records??????????? He didn't even ID her 1-2 month old calf!!!!!!!!!STATE officials couldn't even pick it out of a pen at a feedlot which they traced it to a month later!!!!!

Meticulous records and state ID system? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[ocm]

:lol: :lol: :lol: They knew she was from Canada because she had a CANADIAN H of A EAR TAG.

Don't give the STATE of Washington or any US system too much credit on that one! :roll:

Having or not having an eartag was not the big problem. The question was whether federal employees could read.

The owner of the cow also had meticulous records of his purchases and knew EXACTLY where the cow had come from.

Actually the STATE knew because of documents the owner possessed, not the eartag.

The owner of the cow had such meticulous records??????????? He didn't even ID her 1-2 month old calf!!!!!!!!!STATE officials couldn't even pick it out of a pen at a feedlot which they traced it to a month later!!!!!

Meticulous records and state ID system? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't say anything about individual ID of ALL cattle in the state. What you're talking about is a holstein steer calf. Why would a dairy want to ID a steer calf. He had meticulous records of all his cows. That's how they knew where the cow was from. I didn't say the system was perfect. It worked. It only needs a little improvement, not a massive overhaul.

Question--does Canada's ID system require knowing which calf belongs to which cow? Even the proposed one in the US doesn't require that. Even with the proposed ridiculous ID system that's proposed the steer calf would have been hard to find.

 

[PORKER]

Question--does Canada's ID system require knowing which calf belongs to which cow?

ScoringAg Does ,as its right in the computer system.We use it to check to see which cows throw mostly bull calves.

 

[Bill]

Having or not having an eartag was not the big problem. The question was whether federal employees could read.

The owner of the cow also had meticulous records of his purchases and knew EXACTLY where the cow had come from.

Actually the STATE knew because of documents the owner possessed, not the eartag.

The owner of the cow had such meticulous records??????????? He didn't even ID her 1-2 month old calf!!!!!!!!!STATE officials couldn't even pick it out of a pen at a feedlot which they traced it to a month later!!!!!

Meticulous records and state ID system? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't say anything about individual ID of ALL cattle in the state. What you're talking about is a holstein steer calf. Why would a dairy want to ID a steer calf. He had meticulous records of all his cows. That's how they knew where the cow was from. I didn't say the system was perfect. It worked. It only needs a little improvement, not a massive overhaul.

Question--does Canada's ID system require knowing which calf belongs to which cow? Even the proposed one in the US doesn't require that. Even with the proposed ridiculous ID system that's proposed the steer calf would have been hard to find.

ocm:

Why would a dairy want to ID a steer calf.

To know herd of origin in case of a traceout????????? Isn't that the point of this discussion?

So no the system didn't work and the OIE told USDA that.

No Canada's system does not require a calf to be P.V.'d or I.D'd to it's parents. In typical R-Calf fashion you are twisting this around, what does the Washington ID system have to do with what we are or are not doing in Canada?

Fact is that the Washington ID system you said is working isn't as they couldn't ID the positive cow's calf back TO THE FARM OR HERD OF ORIGIN. Not to the cow but to the FARM of ORIGIN!

 

[ocm]

The owner of the cow had such meticulous records??????????? He didn't even ID her 1-2 month old calf!!!!!!!!!STATE officials couldn't even pick it out of a pen at a feedlot which they traced it to a month later!!!!!

Meticulous records and state ID system? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't say anything about individual ID of ALL cattle in the state. What you're talking about is a holstein steer calf. Why would a dairy want to ID a steer calf. He had meticulous records of all his cows. That's how they knew where the cow was from. I didn't say the system was perfect. It worked. It only needs a little improvement, not a massive overhaul.

Question--does Canada's ID system require knowing which calf belongs to which cow? Even the proposed one in the US doesn't require that. Even with the proposed ridiculous ID system that's proposed the steer calf would have been hard to find.

ocm:

Why would a dairy want to ID a steer calf.

To know herd of origin in case of a traceout????????? Isn't that the point of this discussion?

So no the system didn't work and the OIE told USDA that.

No Canada's system does not require a calf to be P.V.'d or I.D'd to it's parents. In typical R-Calf fashion you are twisting this around, what does the Washington ID system have to do with what we are or are not doing in Canada?

Fact is that the Washington ID system you said is working isn't as they couldn't ID the positive cow's calf back TO THE FARM OR HERD OF ORIGIN. Not to the cow but to the FARM of ORIGIN!

You were the one who said,"He didn't even ID her 1-2 month old calf!!!!!!!!!STATE officials couldn't even pick it out of a pen at a feedlot which they traced it to a month later!!!!!"

That strongly implied IDing to parents. I am not totally familiar with Washington's brand and cattle transfer laws, but in many states what you are talking about would have been easily accomplished through existing laws and currently required paperwork.

By the way, how difficult was it to trace the calf to its location where they ultimately found it. It was not difficult because of records kept.

What I'm suggesting is that National ID the way USDA has described it is like using an atomic bomb to get rid of a rodent infestation.

 

[Bill]

I didn't say anything about individual ID of ALL cattle in the state. What you're talking about is a holstein steer calf. Why would a dairy want to ID a steer calf. He had meticulous records of all his cows. That's how they knew where the cow was from. I didn't say the system was perfect. It worked. It only needs a little improvement, not a massive overhaul.

Question--does Canada's ID system require knowing which calf belongs to which cow? Even the proposed one in the US doesn't require that. Even with the proposed ridiculous ID system that's proposed the steer calf would have been hard to find.

ocm:

Why would a dairy want to ID a steer calf.

To know herd of origin in case of a traceout????????? Isn't that the point of this discussion?

So no the system didn't work and the OIE told USDA that.

No Canada's system does not require a calf to be P.V.'d or I.D'd to it's parents. In typical R-Calf fashion you are twisting this around, what does the Washington ID system have to do with what we are or are not doing in Canada?

Fact is that the Washington ID system you said is working isn't as they couldn't ID the positive cow's calf back TO THE FARM OR HERD OF ORIGIN. Not to the cow but to the FARM of ORIGIN!

You were the one who said,"He didn't even ID her 1-2 month old calf!!!!!!!!!STATE officials couldn't even pick it out of a pen at a feedlot which they traced it to a month later!!!!!"

That strongly implied IDing to parents. I am not totally familiar with Washington's brand and cattle transfer laws, but in many states what you are talking about would have been easily accomplished through existing laws and currently required paperwork.

By the way, how difficult was it to trace the calf to its location where they ultimately found it. It was not difficult because of records kept.

What I'm suggesting is that National ID the way USDA has described it is like using an atomic bomb to get rid of a rodent infestation.

Strongly implied?? Didn't you write in another thread that you were some kind of R-Calf advisor or something?

Re-read what I wrote. I mention nothing of IDing the calf to the dam.

To know herd of origin in case of a traceout????????? Isn't that the point of this discussion?

Fact is that the Washington ID system you said is working isn't as they couldn't ID the positive cow's calf back TO THE FARM OR HERD OF ORIGIN. Not to the cow but to the FARM of ORIGIN!