Switching field from winter wheat to alfalfa??

[Curly]

I'm embarrassed to always come here asking questions but so far I have gotten some good help here. Forgive me for my ignorance. My father in law is a great resource but computer research is helpful too.

I have 50 acres I'm leasing out to a local guy. Its a very nice dry farm field. I'm only getting $850 dollars a year for it and the property is valued at about 3/4 of a million dollars. It seems very strange to me that I'm only getting $850 a year. The guy who's leasing it has been a pleasure to work with and the money more than covers the taxes so I've kept it going, but I am thinking of ending the lease and having some alfalfa planted for my horses and cattle to use during the winter. The property currently has winter wheat on it.

My question are;

1) The winter wheat has been on the property for about 5 years now, do I need to let it sit a few years before I plant alfalfa to strengthen the soil?

2) How expensive is it to hire someone to come in and plant 50 acres of alfalfa? (roughly)

3) How often does one normally have to replant alfalfa or is it one that just keeps coming back strong?

4) Is there a grass hay that would be better on a non irrigated field like this type?

Again, sorry for the lame questions but the answers I get here have been pretty darn helpful so far.

Thank you,

Curly

 

[nortexsook]

How much did you pay for the land Curly my man?

$750,000, I bet it ain't worth that now with the credit crunch going on. Hope you don't choke on it!

LOL

 

[BRG]

Actually since the crunch has began, the land prices have jumped here. My business partner has the majority of the land auctions in ND and the prices have jumped ALOT. Just had one a couple days ago and they were hoping for a gross of $250,000 and they got $350,000. They said that the investors on wanting something they can touch.

 

[per]

Cury, agrinomically there shouldn't be a problem following winter wheat with alfalfa as long as the weeds are under control. You should get at least 5 years of good production and depending on the weather and how you use it you could have many more productive years. There are lots of grass hay and legume/grass combinations that could work depending on how you want to use the pasture. You must have an extension service at the local university that would love to help with different senarios.

 

[Curly]

How much did you pay for the land Curly my man?

$750,000, I bet it ain't worth that now with the credit crunch going on. Hope you don't choke on it!

LOL

I'm not sure if this post was meant to be rude or not but thats the way I read it Nortexsook my man. :roll:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Well about the above comment I don't know which way it was meant but in light of the current situation It makes one wonder what is going to happen to land prices and "WHO" will be farming and ranching in the future.

You probably could have under seeded the Winter wheat to alfalfa.
That was good advice to check with your extension agent. I would think maybe timothy would be a good grass to add to the mixture.

Probably about $20/acre for the seed. Depending on what type of imlpement the operator has for seeding will partly determine the cost. 50 acres goes pretty fast with a heavy harrow and a Valmar .

 

[mrj]

Is your lease written, or verbal? Maybe all states are not the same, but in SD, a verbal lease is binding for the following year/growing season if not cancelled before September of the previous year. If that is the case there, you appear to be stuck for the next year with things as they are. Or maybe just till next March, as some leases terminate in March,but effectively, it would probably go until after the crop is harvested.

If wheat was grown, unless you have just a flat rent rate, rather than a typical farm share deal, you sure didn't get enough money! Unless things have changed in the past 15 years or so, you should have gotten one third of the value of the crop.

Consider at 50 acres of wheat making 30 bushels per acre, worth $5.00 per bu., and see what you would have gotten. Or aske a wheat farmer in your area if those numbers are too far off.

mrj

 

[Curly]

Is your lease written, or verbal? Maybe all states are not the same, but in SD, a verbal lease is binding for the following year/growing season if not cancelled before September of the previous year. If that is the case there, you appear to be stuck for the next year with things as they are. Or maybe just till next March, as some leases terminate in March,but effectively, it would probably go until after the crop is harvested.

If wheat was grown, unless you have just a flat rent rate, rather than a typical farm share deal, you sure didn't get enough money!
mrj

Thats good information on the lease... This guy has taken good care of the property so I will visit with him and make sure he feels good about whatever is decided.

I will visit with some local wheat growers; I do feel like the $850 set rate has been pretty low.

The main thing I wanted to know was how long alfalfa stays healthy before a replant is needed. Sounds like its about 5 years, give or take. I understand winter wheat is hard on the soil so I will give it a year off before I get the alfalfa planted.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Is your lease written, or verbal? Maybe all states are not the same, but in SD, a verbal lease is binding for the following year/growing season if not cancelled before September of the previous year. If that is the case there, you appear to be stuck for the next year with things as they are. Or maybe just till next March, as some leases terminate in March,but effectively, it would probably go until after the crop is harvested.

If wheat was grown, unless you have just a flat rent rate, rather than a typical farm share deal, you sure didn't get enough money!
mrj

Thats good information on the lease... This guy has taken good care of the property so I will visit with him and make sure he feels good about whatever is decided.

I will visit with some local wheat growers; I do feel like the $850 set rate has been pretty low.

The main thing I wanted to know was how long alfalfa stays healthy before a replant is needed. Sounds like its about 5 years, give or take. I understand winter wheat is hard on the soil so I will give it a year off before I get the alfalfa planted.

There are probably other that have grown more winter wheat and alfalfa then i have but unless he used some chemical that would prevent alfalfa from growing I'd get it on right away before some weeds take over. Nothing will rebuild the soil like alfalfa.

 

[PureCountry]

If you manage you grazing properly, there is no reason to ever have to reseed, EVER. You will want to consider the cost of reseeding vs. the cost of a couple rolls of polywire, step-in posts and an electric fencer. For a one time investment in about $1500 worth of fencing material, you could cross-fence the property however you like, with the flexibility of it being portable so you can rearrange it in any manner you see fit.

We're a little ways North of you, but in central Alberta, even with an organic fertilizer that's 1/3 the price of commercial phosphorous, it's going to cost me $80/acre. That's $21/acre for custom seeding, $12/acre for fertilizer, $36/acre for seed, and $10 or $11 for variables. The seed mix I'm using is 1/2 meadow brome, 1/2 alfalfa. The alfalfa variety I use is called Annik. It's a very old, winter-hardy variety that's been found growing in the wild for who knows how long.

Keep an open mind when it comes to what you can do with the property. Lots of people graze legume pastures for years without having to reseed anything. Just make sure you monitor their grazing. Horses are very hard on pastures if left too long in one place. They eat grass right down to the roots, much like a sheep, when given nowhere else to graze. Thus my recommendation to crossfence and give them a bit at a time, while letting the previous paddocks rest and regrow.

Longwinded, but it's my 50cents worth. :wink: Hope it helps.

 

[per]

For my other 10cents worth, I like cicer milk-vetch, sainfoin and birds-foot trefoil in my grazing pastures. On those rainy spells it is a little less stressful than our alfalfa pastures. I also agree with Mr. Pure that you can keep your legume going for many years using proper grazing techniques. That requires a learning curve and a mentality that is often contrary to the neighbors. I would also plant your alfalfa sooner rather than later. What could you do to recover from the winter wheat that would be better than alfalfa?

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

If you manage you grazing properly, there is no reason to ever have to reseed, EVER.

Bingo. In addition to Pure's post, stay away from the newer tap root alfalfa's (at least in a pure stand) if you want stand longevity. Creeping root alfaflas have the advantage of being able to creep back in should they ever flood or freeze out.

For a good hay mix, toss a lb of timothy into 10 lbs of afalfa (8lbs of creeping root, 2 lbs of tap root to add some extra yield). Do NOT do a 50/50 timothy/alfalfa mix as the timothy will take over.

Before reseeding back, get one of the local seed places to do a nutrient analysis (both macro and micro). Winter wheat is hard on soil, but it will depend on your area what you're going to need. After 5 years of continuous cropping in my soil, you'd need a year or two of rest, followed by phosphorus, sulfur and copper.

As for keeping stand longevity, ensure you have at least 6 inches (bare minimum) of stand growth before the first freeze of the year. This will ensure that the plants re-fertilize themselves and you should never have to worry about re-seeding. I'm revitalizing some 14 year old stands right now by leaving 6 to 18 inches of growth before the winter snows. Where I once got 1.5 - 2 tons per acre (two cuts), I'm now taking 3 to 3.5 tons in a single cut and the drowned out areas are slowly being taken back over by creeping root alfalfa.

Rod

 

[Curly]

Wow, this is some great information guys, I REALLY appreciate it. The cross fencing idea is one that I was planning to start this summer. I just finished fencing another property last summer so this one is next.
Its interesting to know that alfalfa is good for the soil, make sense. Thanks to all of you. 8)